0:00

Fuck the game! All

0:09

right, let's do this. How are you? What

0:11

the fuckers? What the fuck, buddies? How's

0:14

it going? I'm Mark. This is my

0:16

podcast, Mark Maron. I'm in personal crisis

0:18

management. Mostly imaginary,

0:20

mostly my own, but I'm getting

0:23

business cards. Yeah, I'm

0:25

working it out. It's a

0:27

new I finally found a

0:31

a context, a psychological

0:33

explanation for the life I lead.

0:36

And I've decided it's a crisis management,

0:39

personal. I

0:41

primarily work in imaginary crisis and

0:46

they're usually my own. There is room and

0:48

I do welcome other people's crises, but

0:51

many times I'm limited in what I can do. But

0:54

I try to help, but mostly it's ongoing.

0:57

What is going on? Today

1:01

on the show, I

1:03

talked to Chris Robinson from the

1:05

Black Crows and we're talking, you

1:07

know, Black Crows,

1:09

the Black fucking Crows. He talked

1:11

about how the band is back

1:13

together. They put a

1:15

new album out earlier this year called

1:17

Happiness Bastards and they're heading back out

1:20

on tour this fall. Initially,

1:25

when the Black Crows first had their time, I

1:28

was so dug into the stones, I just couldn't

1:30

be, I just couldn't accept it. But,

1:34

you know, they're a good rock band and that's

1:36

that. And he's a chatty guy, knows a lot

1:38

about a lot of stuff, had a lot to

1:40

say about things, art and music and otherwise. It

1:44

was nice. It was a good talk. It was nice

1:46

to talk to him. Also in the music zone, my

1:52

buddy Alejandro Escovido hit us to this

1:54

situation, to this event, to

1:56

this album. The guitarist Jesse

1:58

Mallon, suffered

2:00

a rare spinal stroke last year and is

2:03

dealing with the health

2:05

consequences of that, including paralysis from

2:07

the waist down, which is obviously awful. If

2:11

you don't know Jesse, he was in the

2:13

band's heart attack and more famously degeneration, a

2:15

lot of solo work. He's collaborated with a

2:17

long list of music industry heavies over his

2:20

career. And a benefit album

2:23

was recorded to help Jesse out with medical

2:25

and living expenses. It's got 26 Jesse

2:28

Mallon songs covered by his friends

2:30

and collaborators like Bruce Springsteen, Tom

2:33

Morello, Little Steven Van Zandt, Mike

2:35

Watt, Billy Joe Armstrong, Elvis Costello,

2:38

and a lot more. Alejandro

2:41

has a track on there.

2:43

And the Springsteen single, She Don't

2:45

Love Me Now, is actually out right

2:47

now. And the full album is out

2:49

later this month. It's called Silver Patron

2:51

Saints, the songs of Jesse Mallon. And

2:54

then Jesse will appear with a few

2:56

very special guests at New York's Beacon

2:58

Theater for his first show since January

3:01

2023. He'll be performing with Lucinda

3:03

Williams, Ricky Lee Jones, Jacob Dillon,

3:05

Jay Mascos, and a

3:07

lot more. You can get tickets through

3:09

the Beacon Theater. Some

3:12

rock news. Oh

3:15

my God. What's

3:18

the difference between vestiges

3:20

and memories? Personal

3:22

vestiges. Vestiges of

3:24

what I was. Everything around me, even

3:27

if it's only a year old. Stuff.

3:30

Vestiges of previous

3:32

obsessions. I was thinking about that

3:34

today when I was

3:37

flipping around on reels, cutting

3:39

down. And I saw John

3:41

Bryan and Elliot Smith

3:44

covering a kink song. And I was like,

3:46

I remember that month period where

3:48

I needed to have everything the kinks ever did.

3:50

And now I have them. And

3:52

I know that. Vestiges of

3:55

my kink obsession. Which was

3:57

not kinky, but

3:59

kink as in the band Kinks. And

4:02

yeah, I think that's almost

4:04

what most large record

4:06

collections are, vestiges of

4:08

who we were and

4:11

what brings us back. Where

4:14

am I? I'm gonna be in

4:16

Vancouver for the final

4:18

stretch of the

4:20

golf show situation, but

4:22

I'll also be in Tucson, Arizona at

4:24

the Rialto Theater on Friday, September 20th,

4:27

then I'm in Phoenix at the Orpheum

4:29

Theater on Saturday, September 21st, the rest

4:31

of my fall dates of

4:33

the all-in tour have been rescheduled for

4:35

next year. We just moved

4:37

the ones in Skokie and Joliet, Illinois.

4:40

Go to wtfpod.com/tour to get the new dates

4:42

and get tickets for all upcoming shows. It

4:44

will be a new world then, and

4:48

we'll be dealing with it. Maybe happily,

4:50

maybe with extreme

4:52

stress, terror, paralysis, and

4:56

despair, which I

4:58

guess actually is probably a

5:01

better audience for me, but look, I'm hoping for the

5:03

best and I can certainly, I can

5:06

infuse joy and celebration into

5:08

my set, I can do that,

5:10

I'll work on that. I'll work on

5:12

it with a little bit of hope,

5:15

but I'll also be naturally prepared

5:18

for the other one, despair, fear,

5:23

anxiety, paralysis, anger. Yeah,

5:28

because I don't know if I mentioned this to you,

5:30

but I'm Mark Maron, I'm in crisis management. Most

5:33

we imagined, most we personal, but

5:36

I am prepared for most cultural crisis

5:39

and ready to be there to help out.

5:42

Yeah, maybe I should

5:45

call my next special, crisis management,

5:49

colon personal. I

5:51

don't know, I don't know. What

5:54

is going on in my brain? Yeah, that's

5:56

a good question. This show is sponsored by

5:59

BetterHelp. back to school time and for

6:01

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6:03

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6:30

about in therapy. Myself, Mark Maron, and

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my parents, Barry and Toby. Learning

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7:07

What is going on with my brain? It's, you

7:09

know, this is, there's a whole new portal

7:12

opening for me around

7:14

vestiges, personal vestiges

7:16

and crisis management

7:19

and my brain. Where

7:21

do we, where, how do we turn it? Like

7:23

what's going on in my head right now? Okay,

7:26

let's, let's break it down because I'm, I

7:28

believe that other

7:30

people are like this. I mean you

7:32

can shut stuff off sometimes successfully but

7:35

there's nothing not to be stressed out about

7:37

or anxious or worried about. I

7:39

mean it takes a lot of effort, sometimes lazy

7:41

effort where you just kind of lock in and

7:43

turn your brain over to your phone to get

7:46

out of it but that can, depending what you're watching,

7:48

could cause more worry and panic but

7:50

like let's just break it down. Like let's, hold on,

7:53

let me, let me check in with my brain right

7:55

now. Here we go. Does Buster have diarrhea? How come

7:57

he hasn't shit in the last couple days? Does he

7:59

still have diarrhea. I know the other two don't have

8:01

diarrhea. I need to get a key made. Well,

8:04

will that leak detector I had put in for

8:06

insurance reasons? Well, will it just shut the water

8:08

off, you know, in a glitch? Because when I

8:10

didn't program it the day I got it and

8:12

I waited until the next day, it shut my

8:15

water off. Is that going to be a problem

8:17

while I'm gone? I mean, what does biotin do?

8:19

Do I have a biotin deficiency? Is that why

8:21

my hands are tingling? I don't think my conditioner

8:23

is working the way it used to. Do I

8:25

have to switch shampoos? Maybe that wasn't a good

8:28

shampoo, but it was pretty good for a few

8:30

months. Am I pudgy? Do I have cancer? Will

8:33

they cancel my flight? Is kid OK? She's

8:35

OK. Should I text her? Does my dad

8:37

still know me? What was that fake cheese?

8:39

It was weird. Oh, my God, I

8:41

need to get some blood work done. What am I

8:43

going to eat later? What are my

8:46

choices? I'm going to be. Oh, man. So

8:49

there you go. That was just

8:51

that was just a taste. That was

8:53

all going on simultaneously. It

8:55

was all happening in

8:57

real time. This is how I

8:59

stayed in the present. This is my meditation right now.

9:03

It's it's the it's a it's

9:05

a meditating style called the yammering

9:07

endlessly. Just keep

9:09

keep talking. Until,

9:12

you know, you've reached some other zone where

9:14

you don't know what you're saying and it's

9:16

not really attached to anything. That's not

9:18

really the case here, but you just

9:20

keep doing it to avoid everything else and you

9:22

get a frequency going. It's just a sort of,

9:25

you know, kind of constant kind

9:27

of rhythmic yammering. A

9:30

lot of people do it. They just have

9:32

to find people that'll fucking put up

9:34

with it and listen to it. Am

9:36

I right? So let's talk

9:38

about. Fake beer

9:41

for a second, then I'll bring on Chris,

9:43

Chris Robinson from The Black Crows. You

9:46

know, I never was like a guy who had

9:48

to have a fake beer after I quit drinking

9:50

beer. I never was that

9:52

guy like I just wanted because I thought it was dangerous. You

9:55

know, when I have that bottle looking like that, I mean,

9:58

you know, it's just one jump to. real

10:00

beer, right? And you can taste it, you want real beer.

10:03

But now they got all these good fake beers and I

10:05

got to admit I was drinking it and I am drinking

10:07

it. I enjoy it. I like tasting the beer. Do

10:11

I feel closer to a real beer? Not

10:13

really, but why am I enjoying so much fake beer?

10:16

It's dubious. I think it's dubious. I always think

10:18

back to one time when I was in rehab,

10:21

the first time, the one time,

10:23

didn't stick back in the late 80s. And

10:25

there was a guy who was a

10:29

heroin addict and he

10:31

had such a deep relationship with

10:34

the needle, the apparatus, the paraphernalia,

10:37

that even if he needed to take aspirin, he'd shoot it

10:39

up. I

10:41

don't know what that means really, but you know,

10:43

it's just a relationship with your delivery systems, you

10:45

know? It's like vaping. That's not good. You

10:48

know, it's like this dumb fucking snoo stuff.

10:50

Even if it's no tobacco, it's just a,

10:53

it is kind of, it's

10:56

not triggering, but it's just like you're addicted to a

10:58

delivery system, but you are getting it though. But fake,

11:00

I think fake beer is a better example of that.

11:03

It's not real beer, but I like the taste. But

11:07

does it mean that I'm going to get an appetite for real

11:09

beer? I don't know. I don't think so. Not

11:12

feeling it. Don't want to be fucked up.

11:15

Not on that anyways. I'd rather just be

11:17

fucked up by what's going

11:19

on in my brain. Chris

11:21

Robinson is the

11:24

front man of the Black Crows. They're kicking

11:27

off their fall tour next week in New

11:29

York. You can go to the blackcrows.com to

11:31

see all the upcoming tour dates and

11:34

you can get happiness bastards

11:36

now on all music platforms.

11:38

Chris brought me a vinyl. I'll

11:41

put that in the stack. I'll

11:43

listen to it. I listen to it. It's good.

11:45

All right. This is me talking to Chris. I

11:49

don't know if you know about this house that I live

11:51

in now, but one of the reasons I bought it was

11:54

the garage had been converted into a room. There

11:56

was a bathroom put in, there was drywall put on the

11:58

other side of the door, and it was you know,

12:00

it was no longer garage, it was a room. And

12:02

I thought, well, this is amazing. I'll do my podcast

12:04

in here. And honestly, aside from

12:07

doing the podcast in here, this is probably a

12:09

perfect space to host on

12:11

Airbnb. Now give it some thought

12:13

yourself. Have you had to do anything like this?

12:15

Did you turn some extra space into a place

12:17

to live? Got a guest house? What about your

12:20

whole house when you're not home? The next time

12:22

you take a trip, you could Airbnb it. Hey,

12:24

this is easy to do, and it's a great

12:26

way to earn some extra cash. And there's plenty

12:29

of reasons to have some extra cash these days.

12:31

Check it out yourself. Your home might be worth

12:33

more than you think. Find out how much at

12:35

airbnb.com/host. So

12:45

you know Spaceman 3? Of course. I'm

12:48

not sounding arrogant. It's just at

12:50

a certain point in my life

12:52

and the people in my life.

12:54

You know, it's funny, my brother's

12:57

second oldest, Quinn Robinson is here and

12:59

LA is a musician. He just

13:01

got into Spaceman 3. It's weird

13:04

with records, because we were just in the house.

13:06

There's no too late to the party. This

13:14

was kind of a jarring thing this morning.

13:16

I found out you're younger than me. It

13:18

bothered me. I'm like, can't he be at

13:20

least the same fucking age as me? It's

13:22

not a big difference. Those 35 years on

13:24

the road have kept me so

13:27

youthful. Yeah, but like every day you can

13:29

find new records. Always.

13:32

I mean, it's been that, you

13:34

know, it's funny, books, movies, records,

13:36

comics. I've

13:39

been able to culturally inject

13:41

other of my interests.

13:44

It's funny because I work a lot

13:46

in LA with some younger bands and

13:48

stuff. And I'm impressed with some

13:50

things I'm confounded by, the Ute. Like

13:53

what? Their

13:57

lack of... There's a lack of...

14:00

lack of like that killer

14:02

instinct or something like, as

14:05

artists or just in curiosity? I

14:07

think they're curious, maybe a little, maybe it's, I've

14:09

met some that are that way, but some just

14:11

seem, they have all the talent, they, you know.

14:14

And again, you can just go get what,

14:16

you can algorithm your way into a cool

14:18

record collection. Sure, but like, there's no historical

14:21

context. And there's no representation of, yeah, of

14:23

what, again, lesson,

14:25

the hardest lessons in life are

14:28

the ones that you have to live through. And

14:31

going to record stores, I used to laugh like,

14:33

you know, hey, there's a guy down the street who has 50,000 records.

14:36

I mean, he's a pedo. So

14:38

if we all go in there as a group,

14:40

he's like, yeah, totally. Where did Larry

14:42

go? Oh my God, he went to the bathroom. And

14:44

maybe we learned something. Well, I had guys like that

14:47

in my life. This guy, there was a record store

14:49

next, the restaurant I worked in

14:51

Albuquerque, where I grew up when I was in

14:53

high school. And that one guy, this guy, Steve

14:55

LaRue, who was into like the residents,

14:57

Brian Eno, Fred Frith, you know, John

15:00

Hassell, all that shit. And he's

15:02

hipping me to that. And I'm like, what the

15:05

fuck is this? And then the other guy was

15:07

all R&B, took me to his house. It wasn't

15:09

a pedo, but he made like, but introduced me

15:11

to Sam and Dave, Otis, and all that shit.

15:13

And this is like the late 70s. And

15:16

I wouldn't have never had it. It's amazing

15:18

too, because as a dyslexic person

15:20

from the deep South,

15:22

I was always ill-prepared

15:24

for anything but

15:27

everything with a poetic construct. And whereas I

15:29

would never have a pencil or paper, whatever,

15:31

for some reason, if I'm with, I would

15:33

write down records all the time. Same

15:36

thing, hang out in record stores. In

15:38

Atlanta, we had Fantasyland, Wux Tree, Wax

15:40

and Fact. And we had

15:42

friends back then, it was,

15:44

you know, early, mid 80s, late

15:46

80s. You could still

15:49

hit a junk store and find- Of course,

15:51

yeah. I still have like a mono copy,

15:54

pristine copy of like the Troggs first record,

15:57

the second, third and fourth Kinks

15:59

records. Things I found in La

16:01

Grange, Georgia at some ill-fated attempt at

16:04

the university there. Yeah, yeah. So

16:06

that was all like that. Yeah, you can't find that anymore.

16:08

You can't find it like a

16:11

real kind of grail find. Everyone

16:13

knows what they have. I have a good

16:15

friend who actually does it sometimes. Well, there's

16:17

guys who do that. But I asked him,

16:19

my dear friend Michael Klausman, who used to

16:22

be the record buyer in New York and

16:24

music, what was it called? Other

16:26

music. Oh, okay. Great

16:29

record store. And I'm like, dude. And

16:31

he's the guy who finds records that end

16:33

up being like the super coolest. Or

16:37

they reissue them. The cool labels will

16:39

go, whatever you find. But he's

16:41

like, man, you have no idea. For

16:44

every cool record I find,

16:46

it's hundreds of thousands of

16:48

nothing. Yeah, of nothing. Of

16:50

dreams. Yeah, of absolutely. How

16:53

many Herb Albert albums can you dig through?

16:55

Right, and that guy made a fortune. And

16:57

he was cool. I interviewed

17:00

that guy. He was like 80 or

17:02

something. But those guys who figured out

17:04

the record business, whether you like their music or

17:06

not, you got to be like, holy fuck. Especially

17:09

when that business meant what it meant.

17:14

I feel lucky that way about life,

17:16

that we were one of the last, because

17:18

of my age and because of the nature

17:21

of what we were doing, we were one

17:23

of the last people to be in that

17:25

old world. It's true. Because

17:27

of the music business. They were a little younger than

17:29

me, but we grew up in that crashing wave of

17:31

the 60s. We

17:34

missed Zeppelin, in a way. That's

17:38

the weirdest thing, because when I was in high school, it

17:40

was all fucking Zeppelin. But that was already eight years old.

17:42

I mean, by the time I'm in high school, I

17:45

was like, why

17:47

can't I see Echo and the Bunnymen?

17:49

Oh, they never are coming to Atlanta.

17:52

You live in Atlanta. You're never going

17:54

to see Susie and the Banshees. Just forget it.

17:57

They weren't they? They were doing those. Yeah, yeah.

40:00

Have you ever heard

40:02

Skip James play piano? Because he plays

40:04

like piano that would have been taught

40:06

to somebody who taught him from you

40:09

know the 18th century. He

40:12

played a real archaic form of piano. But

40:16

my father was a folk singer. So he

40:19

was a rock and roller in the 50s. He

40:21

had a top 40 record called Boom-a-Dip-Dip. And then

40:23

that didn't... Did you guys ever cover it? No,

40:25

but it's a great song. He has another one

40:27

called Start to Jump that would be better for

40:29

us to cover. But it wasn't a big hit.

40:31

So way to go, Dad. Yeah,

40:34

yeah. You know what I mean? But

40:36

he had rock and roll dreams. He did have rock and roll

40:39

dreams. And he was talented. But

40:41

I think when that kind of thing didn't

40:43

pan out for him, he immersed himself in

40:46

traditional folk music. And he knew he was

40:48

a very good... You

40:51

know, he had a great finger pick. He

40:54

knew a lot about... And

40:56

when he would come home, he would play the Get Out

40:58

the Guitar. My brother still has that guitar. It's a 1953

41:00

Martin D-28. Oh,

41:03

wow. That

41:06

Martin just made a beautiful reproduction of for

41:09

anyone who wants one. Of Your Brothers? Of

41:11

my dad, the original one. Oh, really? It's

41:14

called The Appellation. That was the name of his

41:16

folk duo, The Appellations. So they're doing classic, like

41:18

Gaelic... They would do, yeah,

41:21

everything from Woody Guthrie songs to

41:23

Broadside, things that, you know, Shady

41:25

Grove, you know, a lot of

41:27

the canon of that era. The

41:31

records he made were early 60s. So

41:35

a lot of those records are kind

41:37

of like that 12-string, the serendipity singers

41:39

and that kind of more

41:42

commercial folk. Which

41:44

is funny because he was real hard ass about

41:46

what... He was the guy who like, I didn't

41:48

buy Blonde on Blonde. I'm not buying an electric

41:50

Bob Dylan record. He was like that guy. I'm

41:52

drawing the line. Yeah, so I'm not crossing that.

41:54

My dad, Jules and Binocular sang from the head

41:56

of the mule. You're not into that. Come on,

41:58

man. The Ghost of Electricity. the bone

42:01

to throw her face. Jeez, I can't find

42:03

my knees. But it was

42:05

funny, I loved,

42:09

talk about outsider culture. I

42:11

loved those songs. When he sang those songs,

42:14

they meant something to me, not because it

42:16

was my father, but because

42:18

the music was very alive and

42:20

the stories. And

42:23

I could connect to it in a cultural way even

42:25

before I knew what it was. But

42:27

being in Atlanta and also hearing

42:29

gospel music, hearing R&B music,

42:32

and just having, being adjacent

42:36

to all this beautiful black

42:38

culture in Africa, drives from

42:40

Africa, it

42:43

really meant something to me. And then by

42:45

the time, but, and

42:48

I played basketball and I was really

42:50

into like, 80s cameo,

42:52

like inside Prince, Vanny Sick, The

42:55

Time, all the, you know, the

42:57

first Prince single is soft and wet. I didn't even

42:59

really know what that meant, except, does someone have to

43:01

clean that up? And

43:03

then later Prince would say, yes. It's

43:06

a big puddle. Don't

43:10

touch it. That

43:14

when then I find, 96

43:19

Rock was like the

43:21

AOR rock station. It was

43:24

pretty boring. So I had

43:26

to find like, you know, luckily we,

43:28

and back then on cable, we had

43:30

USA network, which is now just SVU

43:33

or SUV. I

43:35

don't know which one. Police things.

43:38

Seaman retrieval unit. Sure. Dusters.

43:43

Speaking of, uh-uh. But

43:47

they had a, they would have programming that was,

43:49

you know, I would wait for it. That's the

43:51

first, you know, rude

43:54

boy by the clash goes on. I'm like,

43:56

okay. Now we're talking

43:58

something that I feel. And

1:08:00

I think that's a real punishment and surprise. It

1:08:02

was a symbiotic thing. It worked like boom, but

1:08:04

he picked, I'm more chaos

1:08:06

in the studio, just like Rich

1:08:08

and I are completely different personalities. I like things

1:08:11

fast, boom, try this. It drives people

1:08:13

a little crazy probably. I'm

1:08:15

very hyper creative

1:08:18

that way. And Rich is a little more

1:08:20

subdued and wants, and

1:08:22

so here we are all these years

1:08:24

and records later, but we found a

1:08:26

guy in Jay who could pick up

1:08:28

on both of that. Interject

1:08:31

when he had to, and that

1:08:33

communicates to the whole ensemble. Well,

1:08:35

it's kind of interesting with all your sort of

1:08:38

like the broad spectrum of what's coming through you

1:08:40

musically, and the sort of like, it seems like

1:08:43

Rich is kind of grounded in

1:08:45

those riffs that he fucking likes, and

1:08:47

some of that three chord stuff and

1:08:50

open tunings and whatever. But

1:08:52

in the new record, there's a couple,

1:08:54

like I could tell like, what is

1:08:56

it, Wilted Rose? That's my classic Black

1:08:58

Rose song, right? Yeah, I

1:09:00

mean, and then there's ballads. And

1:09:03

then there's other ones on there that like, there's not

1:09:05

a lot of chord changes, it's just drive. Well, that

1:09:07

was the other thing we were like, getting

1:09:11

back together and doing Shake Your Money Maker was

1:09:13

important because that was another thing we never thought

1:09:15

we'd do. Play the whole album, start to finish,

1:09:18

but then we did it and it was great.

1:09:21

And I was like, oh, this is what

1:09:23

we are though. It also helped

1:09:25

me focus and

1:09:28

define something that I

1:09:30

hadn't thought about a long time. And that's like, look, I'm

1:09:32

a front man. You know what I mean? And

1:09:34

I, you know, in my solo band, I'm

1:09:36

just a guy playing guitar and singing folk

1:09:39

songs, kind of. Right.

1:09:41

I think this is what I'm supposed to

1:09:43

do. I'm supposed to feel good about who

1:09:45

I am on stage and what I'm giving

1:09:47

you, my energy, my vocals, the

1:09:50

lyrics and the way I dance. But I have

1:09:52

to feel that from these guys and I have

1:09:55

to get it back from them. Yeah. But

1:09:58

more than ever in my life, I realized

1:10:00

that's what I'm really like what I like

1:10:02

it. And I have the perspective

1:10:04

of saying no one fucking

1:10:06

does it. If Steven just

1:10:08

retired for real, well there's one gone. You

1:10:11

know what I mean? He's not gonna go

1:10:13

out and shake it anymore. Mick

1:10:16

Jagger is probably the archetypal

1:10:19

front man for people like me and

1:10:21

Steven. I would say even maybe Robert

1:10:23

Plant in some ways. I tell you,

1:10:26

he's an amazing front man who I

1:10:28

look at as someone who I really

1:10:30

think is Dave Gahan from Depeche Mode.

1:10:33

Oh yeah. I

1:10:35

saw him last year and I was like, oh

1:10:37

my God. Different

1:10:40

than me, a little bit more theatrical.

1:10:42

But I'm, you know, and I see

1:10:44

that I'm like, yeah, yeah. You know

1:10:46

what I mean? Like that's a show

1:10:48

and you can feel, it's

1:10:54

something else. You're almost like a born again

1:10:56

entertainer. In that

1:10:58

kind of way. Yeah, like you realize like

1:11:00

the full arc of the fuck you-ness has

1:11:02

kind of like leveled off and you're like,

1:11:05

well this is what I do. Yeah. I'm

1:11:08

not like other guys. You know what I mean? I'm

1:11:12

gonna get there, man. You know what I mean? But

1:11:15

in between then and there, I think,

1:11:17

you know, it's exactly what a rock

1:11:19

and roll band should be. That's right.

1:11:21

There's highs, lows. The

1:11:23

fucking purgatory. Right, but

1:11:25

thank God you had the brotherhood to

1:11:28

blow steam off and do like, you

1:11:30

know, something that, you know, enabled you

1:11:32

to embrace that more poetic trip that

1:11:34

you're on. Completely, and to be, I

1:11:36

mean, on just a sheer physical level,

1:11:39

to take those years in the CRB. I mean, we were doing

1:11:41

200, over 200, 250 shows a year. Yeah.

1:11:46

Two sets a night, five nights a

1:11:48

week. That was the CRB. But doing

1:11:50

something with my voice that

1:11:52

was not what I do in the Black

1:11:54

Crows, I think gave me

1:11:57

such power and

1:11:59

strength. vocals today that, you

1:12:02

know. But also makes you a full person, because then

1:12:04

you don't have to spend your life going like, ah,

1:12:06

fuck, I'm stuck. You said take the steam off, and

1:12:08

I've used that description about, look man,

1:12:10

you know, if it hurts anyone's feelings or

1:12:12

whatever, okay, I had to get out of

1:12:14

that. I was miserable.

1:12:17

Is that the Dunkirk, is that 95? Yeah,

1:12:19

that's where it starts, but as you know, the

1:12:21

war goes on for quite a while. And

1:12:25

then you know, the worst part of any war

1:12:28

is the reconstruction. Well,

1:12:30

how bad did it get? What was the fucking

1:12:32

thing? Did

1:12:35

the drugs get bad? Yes,

1:12:37

but I love drugs, so I'm not gonna

1:12:39

blame it on that. I mean, I think,

1:12:42

especially the first 10 years of the band,

1:12:45

every fucking band, whether it's the Spacemen

1:12:47

3, or, you know, My

1:12:49

Bloody Valentine, or whatever, any band,

1:12:53

I think would say, oh,

1:12:56

if we had just stopped for six months,

1:12:58

like, but you'd never

1:13:00

do, you never do. And

1:13:03

I was resentful and depressed

1:13:05

and lonely by the

1:13:07

end of the 90s, and that is

1:13:12

represented in my drug use, although

1:13:14

like I was kind of teasing, but I'm, you

1:13:16

know, I will never, I

1:13:19

don't look back at any of that with any

1:13:21

regrets. Sure, so what about the emotional strain on

1:13:23

your relationship with the band and with your brother

1:13:25

and all that shit? Yeah, yeah, but again, you

1:13:28

know, without it, I'm not

1:13:30

here. I'm not, you know what

1:13:32

I mean? Like, these are hard lessons to learn, and,

1:13:34

you know, I mean, and to be honest, I'm

1:13:37

definitely not here today without

1:13:41

meeting my wife when I did, and

1:13:44

forging our partnership and relationship, and as

1:13:47

someone who I ultimately love and respect,

1:13:52

who is, you know, an artist,

1:13:54

and she did the cover. Yeah,

1:13:57

yeah, it's great. But also just helping

1:13:59

me get. back to like, what's, you know, like,

1:14:01

let's. Who are you?

1:14:03

Yeah, let's start stripping apart like.

1:14:05

Right. And that goes

1:14:08

hand in hand with the loving

1:14:10

the music again. Like loving

1:14:12

like real rock and roll again. Well, that's right. I mean,

1:14:14

I always listen to it, but. But doing that first record

1:14:16

all the way through, that must have brought a right one.

1:14:18

That's what it was, it was like a fire. And

1:14:21

then it was like, oh yeah, you know, it's

1:14:24

funny on the new record, like Rats and Clowns,

1:14:26

the second song. Yeah. I

1:14:28

tell people that

1:14:30

was, that song took five minutes to write. Rich

1:14:32

played me that. And

1:14:34

I was like, oh, you've been seen downtown hanging with

1:14:37

the Rats and Clowns. And I was like, OK, we

1:14:39

got it. And it's,

1:14:41

there's a little ACDC, there's a little

1:14:43

punk attitude. And

1:14:45

it's very much. But

1:14:48

it didn't take any thinking about it. You

1:14:51

know what I mean? It was only

1:14:53

instinctive. And when we record that, I

1:14:55

just brought that track up as an example. By

1:14:58

the time, Rich plays the guitar solo on that track.

1:15:00

And we had, that's the most

1:15:03

fun I've ever had in the

1:15:05

studio. Yeah. Recording that, that song.

1:15:07

It took 10 minutes and

1:15:09

then Rich played that solo. And I was

1:15:11

like, fucking in his face yelling, yeah. And

1:15:14

he's ripping and ripping. And

1:15:17

I'm like, that, but that's

1:15:19

what you maybe get

1:15:22

away from. Right. The

1:15:25

immediacy of that kind of creation.

1:15:27

Yeah, right then and there. And this

1:15:30

is something that, well, hey, if it

1:15:32

was pretentious, if it was false, it

1:15:34

would not, it wouldn't resonate. Right. No

1:15:38

matter what we've done, it has to be sincere.

1:15:40

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And

1:15:44

in those moments are the moments that like, OK.

1:15:47

So we can just finish three years

1:15:50

of touring. And he and I are

1:15:54

in a great place. He and

1:15:56

I are ready for the next chapter,

1:15:58

ready for what? whatever happens,

1:16:01

there's no... Can't imagine

1:16:04

how painful it is to have that kind of strain with

1:16:06

your brother. Well,

1:16:10

it's... But again, all families

1:16:12

are the same, but every family is different. It's

1:16:14

like bands. Every band

1:16:17

goes to the gig and goes in the

1:16:19

dressing room and does the show, but in

1:16:21

between A, B and C, everyone does it

1:16:23

different. It's culture. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But

1:16:27

for me also, like I was talking about

1:16:29

Camille or whatever, she's also the one that

1:16:31

just put in my mind

1:16:33

and my heart, like, you're

1:16:39

this way and he's that way. Yeah.

1:16:41

And before I'd be like, why is he that way? He'd be

1:16:43

like, why is he like this? But

1:16:47

we have a different respect and

1:16:49

understanding and also, you

1:16:51

know, without... I can put my

1:16:53

brother as a musician. I

1:16:57

can really see who he is better

1:17:00

now and how fucking talented

1:17:02

he is and how he does something

1:17:04

that... There's a lot of fucking great

1:17:06

guitar players out there and I've

1:17:08

played with a lot of great guitar players and

1:17:10

we love their records and we go see them

1:17:12

and Rich is... I have to put... I mean,

1:17:15

he's not the fucking... He's

1:17:17

not ripping like this virtuoso

1:17:20

soloist, but what

1:17:22

he does is unique. Yeah,

1:17:25

finds the space. And he has a

1:17:27

sound and he has his ideas and

1:17:31

what he wants to say emotionally

1:17:33

through his music is something that

1:17:37

has always affected me. Yeah. And

1:17:39

again, it gets back to songwriting. All

1:17:42

this shit, man, rock and roll and

1:17:44

rock stars and getting on stage and

1:17:46

shaking it, all of that's cool. And

1:17:49

it's all great. But we starred as

1:17:51

two kids who wanted to write songs

1:17:53

because that's the only thing that we

1:17:56

couldn't... We didn't learn Stare

1:17:58

Where To Heaven, we're not... playing at it. You

1:18:01

know what I mean? It's like, yeah,

1:18:03

you know? Yeah, yeah, don't, well

1:18:05

that's better off. The solo to

1:18:07

eruption, we're not fucking around with that. We're

1:18:10

gonna, we started writing our own song. Yeah,

1:18:12

yeah, well yeah, that's a, I'm

1:18:15

the same way, but I'm never a professional musician,

1:18:17

but I'm not gonna sit there for three days

1:18:19

and learn the solo just to be, act like

1:18:21

you know it casually at a party or something.

1:18:23

Yeah. You're

1:18:25

like, cool, Hotel California, great. That's what we need.

1:18:28

You know what, God, God damn it.

1:18:31

Could someone, could we just hear Hotel California once

1:18:33

in our life? Fuck, I haven't heard it in

1:18:35

12 seconds. I just remember I worked at a

1:18:37

restaurant when I was younger and this guy picks

1:18:39

up a guitar and he's talking to me and

1:18:42

he's a guitar player. I don't

1:18:44

know what he ended up doing, but he just

1:18:46

starts playing Little Wing, like, and he's pretending like

1:18:48

it was just casual. Like, he's still talking to

1:18:50

me. Exactly, but it looked, it looked

1:18:53

like it took so much effort for

1:18:55

him to just play that casually, that

1:18:57

was his big plan. I'm gonna learn this fucking

1:18:59

thing. I'm just gonna like. Yeah, yeah, but

1:19:02

it just didn't add no fucking groove. It was

1:19:04

a great moment. Well, you know,

1:19:06

that's going on at Guitar Center right now.

1:19:08

Oh yeah, as we speak. So

1:19:11

what's the plan for the tour? You're gonna

1:19:13

tour, you're gonna play this, most of this

1:19:15

record and. Well, we, you know, we had,

1:19:17

we did the Happiness Bastards tour and it

1:19:19

was fantastic because we had

1:19:21

been doing the Shake Your Money Maker tour

1:19:24

and like, and then this kind of subsequent

1:19:26

big records. So

1:19:28

we went to smaller venues knowing

1:19:31

that we were gonna play a lot of the new record,

1:19:34

but it also, I mean, we

1:19:36

play the hits as well, of course, you

1:19:38

know, like back, you know, when the

1:19:41

Black Cross, there was a time, I can't believe there

1:19:43

was a time where we're like, yeah, fuck it, we're

1:19:45

not gonna play, she talks to angels, you know what

1:19:47

I mean? It's like, it's almost only, only, you know,

1:19:49

any time a band makes those decisions, it's sort of

1:19:51

like, ah, fuck. So we're not gonna play

1:19:54

the main song. We gotta listen to this

1:19:56

one we don't know for an hour. I

1:19:58

can tell. So you're gonna go

1:20:01

back out. So we're going back out. We were

1:20:04

supposed to be with Aerosmith, and we'd had

1:20:07

a bunch of our own shows booked within

1:20:10

the Aerosmith tour. And

1:20:13

so now that that's not happening, we, yeah, we're gonna

1:20:16

go finish and get back to this. The other thing

1:20:18

I was saying is we get to play, we

1:20:20

have a few moments in the show where we can play

1:20:22

some really deep tracks. Yeah. And

1:20:25

we have some moments where we can play

1:20:27

like, you know, we've

1:20:29

been playing Chuck Berry songs. Which one?

1:20:32

Well, we've been playing Carol. Yeah.

1:20:35

And we've been playing... You

1:20:37

ever played Can't Catch Me? I

1:20:39

haven't played that. I know that. I mean, we

1:20:41

had a giant Chuck Berry cutout on the stage

1:20:44

too. But we've been playing, what's

1:20:46

it, 40 Flight Rock. Oh yeah,

1:20:48

yeah. We've been playing High School

1:20:51

Confidential. We

1:20:53

were playing some Bo Diddley

1:20:56

songs. Oh yeah, like Josephine.

1:20:59

We were doing Road Runner.

1:21:01

Oh, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it gives us

1:21:03

a cool opportunity to play some like covers that

1:21:05

we haven't been doing. And

1:21:07

we, you know, just

1:21:10

loosen it up a little and get

1:21:12

the new songs in. And

1:21:14

our band is, we're having

1:21:16

such a good time and such a fucking...

1:21:19

How's the crowds? Amazing, incredible. It's

1:21:21

a, you know what I mean? It's also

1:21:23

incredible just to... And

1:21:26

I know as well, like we'll always have our people and

1:21:29

some people have come and gone and they

1:21:31

come back. And then they come with their

1:21:33

kids. Yeah, but I know, but also like

1:21:35

now what we do, I really realize is

1:21:37

like, you're not really seeing that. You know

1:21:39

what I mean? Like we don't have any

1:21:42

in-ear monitors. We have guitars on stage. Sometimes,

1:21:45

you know, I always think a great rock

1:21:47

show should be like an old train in

1:21:49

a cartoon. And then it goes over the

1:21:52

cliff and the train rolls all over and

1:21:54

it comes back and then you go, oh, you know.

1:21:56

And that's the way it should feel. We

1:21:59

don't... It's a little bit

1:22:01

different every night. Well, it's great talking to

1:22:03

you, man. Yeah, thanks. Yeah, thanks for coming.

1:22:05

Cheers, cheers. Cheers. Cheers. Cheers.

1:22:08

Cheers. Cheers. Cheers.

1:22:10

There you go. Thinks a lot about a

1:22:13

lot of stuff that Chris Robinson. Again, you

1:22:15

can go to blackcrows.com for tour dates and

1:22:17

tickets and get happiness bastards,

1:22:19

wherever you get your music. Hang out for

1:22:21

a minute, will ya? People,

1:22:26

we have got a special bonus

1:22:28

episode tomorrow for Fullmarin subscribers, one

1:22:30

that hasn't been part of any

1:22:32

premium WTF subscription for a while.

1:22:35

It's called Lauren Stories, and it's

1:22:37

a two-hour compilation of stories from

1:22:39

people who used to be on

1:22:41

Saturday Night Live. I think he

1:22:43

gives good advice. Long-winded advice, but

1:22:45

good advice. Like he's the kind

1:22:47

of guy, if you say, should

1:22:49

I move, you

1:22:52

know, should I buy a house? He's

1:22:54

had this crazy life. I don't know, I like

1:22:56

his advice, but- So does he give you advice

1:22:58

about Parks and Rec? Yes.

1:23:05

Oh yeah, in terms of your performance in general?

1:23:08

I don't think he really watches it, but you know-

1:23:10

Like what did he say? You

1:23:13

know, that kind of thing that like, like

1:23:18

Buddha-like people say, which is not

1:23:20

really anything, but they end

1:23:22

up saying nothing, and

1:23:25

you're like, yes, that's it. You know what I mean?

1:23:27

But that thing of like, at the end of the

1:23:29

day, it's you, and that's

1:23:31

what you need to remember. It's you

1:23:33

there, and you're doing your thing, and there

1:23:36

is where you're supposed to be. And

1:23:38

you're like, yes. Finally. And then you walk

1:23:40

in like, you know, what the fuck are you talking

1:23:42

about? I think it's just, it's

1:23:47

just an approval thing in a way. I think it is.

1:23:49

And also he's had to, I

1:23:53

have to say having had the experience of

1:23:55

up close at SNL, there's so many fires

1:23:57

to put out, and there's so many personalities.

1:24:00

and people with real, you know, there's

1:24:02

like the neuroses of the host and

1:24:04

there's the cast and everybody and he

1:24:08

doesn't always get it right. But the

1:24:10

history of personalities that you have to manage

1:24:12

is really, really interesting. And I think he's

1:24:17

really good at getting what he wants. Like

1:24:19

it's just it's fascinating to watch when someone's like,

1:24:21

I'm not going to do that sketch. He's like, No,

1:24:23

I know you're not. And when you do it,

1:24:25

it will be fine. He's

1:24:28

like, No, I know, but I'm not gonna do anything.

1:24:30

He's like, you're not doing it nor should you. But

1:24:32

I think when you find yourself doing

1:24:35

it, you're going to end this and

1:24:37

of doing it. It's amazing. He's incredibly

1:24:39

persuasive. To get the Lauren stories

1:24:41

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sponsored by BetterHelp Online Therapy. As kids,

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And a reminder, this podcast is

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hosted by Acast. And

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here's some guitar featuring some of

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my favorite major chords. Thanks

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for watching.

1:27:00

Thanks for watching!