0:00

Jason: And I tell you what, even as far as leadership is concerned and entrepreneurs and business owners

0:05

and things like that, getting the the grief support right can be critical to someone's business success or demise.

0:16

And what I mean by that, I can't tell you, Tim, how many folks I've talked to who have said,

0:22

you know, I I dissolved my partnership with, you know, a a company or whatever because I got

0:30

back to work after my mother's funeral, you know, or or whatever.

0:34

And, I mean, just one statement that somebody says, I thought you'd be over that by now or something like that.

0:41

And they're like, f you, you know.

0:43

I mean, it's just it's it's truly amazing and and learning to be not just sensitive, but, you

0:51

know, saying things that are really more supportive.

0:58

Tim: This is Tim Staton with Tim stating the obvious.

1:01

What is this podcast about? It's simple.

1:04

You are entitled to great leadership everywhere you go, whether it's your church, whether it's

1:09

to work, whether it's at your house, you are entitled to great leadership.

1:13

And so in this podcast, we take leadership principles and theories and turn them into everyday relatable and usable advice. And a

1:21

Narrator: quick disclaimer. This show process or service by trademark, trademark manufacturer, otherwise

1:24

does not necessarily constitute and reply. Indorts by anyone that I employed by or favors in the representation.

1:27

The views expressed here in my show are my own expressed and do not necessarily state or reflect those of any employer.

1:32

Tim: Hey, and welcome back to another episode of Tim's Dating the Obvious.

1:35

Today, I'm super excited to be able to share with you our special guest that you just heard

1:42

on the, little teaser trailer, intro to this to this episode.

1:46

So Jason Harris is a certified celebrant.

1:49

He's a published author and lay grief counselor.

1:53

He brings a unique approach to funerals and memorial services that will honor the memory of your loved one.

2:00

Families request Jason services when they want a celebration of their loved one's life more than just a sermon.

2:09

And Jason is very passionate about living well after loss and guiding people through the grieving

2:15

process, and he has some really good and insightful ideas on this topic.

2:20

And if you're thinking, I don't know how grief relates to business.

2:25

You just heard it a little bit in the intro. You're gonna hear it more now.

2:28

But also with leadership, we have to bring back humanity into leadership.

2:34

Leadership is a people business.

2:36

So you're gonna jump right into it and hear from Jason about his views on grief and celebrate, services.

2:45

And he's got 5 questions we're gonna get to.

2:48

So stick around for those that are going to change your perspective. Hey, Jason. Welcome to the show.

2:54

I really appreciate you coming on. I know we just introduced you in the intro to this, but I just kinda wanted everyone to hear from your own words.

3:03

Kinda tell us about yourself and why we're here today.

3:06

Jason: Sure. Well, first, it's an honor to be here, Tim, and I really appreciate the invitation.

3:11

I have been in ministry for about 35 years, but to qualify that, about the last 11 years, I've

3:18

been in the funeral business. And the way that came about, I mean, when I was only 18 years old, I was licensed and ordained

3:28

to go into the gospel ministry, and I went to the Crystal College in downtown Dallas and, and

3:35

got my, BA in biblical studies with an emphasis in counseling.

3:40

Then I went on to seminary to get my master's, my MDiv in, theology and, with an with, again, an emphasis in counseling.

3:49

And I've been a pastor, a youth pastor, an associate pastor, a worship leader. I've planted a church.

3:57

I've been in short term missions. And so I have a lot of many ministry experience, but about 17 years ago, my life just absolutely

4:05

had a train wreck and, that I won't go into into detail here, but it it got me out of the church

4:12

for a while, and and I got into sales.

4:16

I started selling, home improvement stuff, remodeling, and windows, and siding, and doors, and things like that.

4:24

And, I discovered I was quite good at sales and who cares?

4:28

I guess, as a minister, I've been in sales for years.

4:31

It's just that my product was free. And, and it is the free gift of eternal life with Jesus Christ and and his grace.

4:39

But and so I was you know, I continued, and it it seemed like almost every industry that I,

4:47

went into as far as sales was concerned, I would shoot straight to the top and as far as production

4:53

and then ask to be, like, a sales manager for heating and air conditioning company up in Minnesota.

4:59

And then I moved back to Texas, and in moving back to Texas, I knew that I need I was gonna

5:05

need to find another job in sales. And one of the possibilities that I was checking out said preneed funeral sales.

5:12

And I thought, well, that sounds depressing.

5:16

But, but I checked it out anyway.

5:18

And I discovered that a lot of people, almost 4 fifths of the population, have not prearranged

5:26

their funeral because who likes to think about that?

5:29

I mean, some a lot of people have life insurance, but they haven't actually sat down and said

5:34

if my funeral occurred next week, this is what I would wanna be buried versus cremation.

5:41

I want this kind of casket. I want you know, and and just literally plan the funeral and freeze the cost of it, pay it out

5:47

over 5 to 10 years. And that way, if anything happens to me, my kids don't have to try to plan my funeral on the

5:56

worst day of their life. And so very, very important thing to do.

6:00

And so I went in full bore, very passionately about helping people get ready for their funeral.

6:08

Well, once again, through the form, I became a sales manager.

6:12

And, and and in fact, my my territory was all of East Texas. It's a huge territory.

6:20

And my job was to reach out and meet funeral directors, and I worked with about 50 different funeral owners.

6:28

Well, Tim, the, the funeral business is a pretty tight knit fraternity.

6:33

It's like all the funeral directors know each other.

6:36

And word kinda got around. Hey.

6:38

If you're ever in a pinch or in a bind, and someone doesn't have a pastor or a speaker for their

6:46

funeral, you should ask Jason.

6:48

He does a pretty good funeral. Well, let me insert here that most pastors, it's kind of the expectation to do the funeral for

6:58

their parishioners, for their church members.

7:02

If, if someone's mom or grandmother dies, well, let's ask pastor Jason to do her funeral.

7:09

And, and so that doesn't mean that I'm necessarily, a close friend of that person.

7:14

I'm just the pastor of the church, and so I'm asked to do the funeral.

7:18

Well, I'm gonna tell you another little caveat here that's very interesting that I have verified

7:23

by asking a number of pastors since I discovered this, and that is in all 8 years of my bible

7:30

training through bible college and seminary, I had not one course, not one class, but literally

7:38

one lecture on doing funeral.

7:41

And that lecture was combined with doing weddings, doing the Lord's supper or communion, and, burial. Yeah.

7:52

And I if I'm not leaving something else out. No. Wow. Baptism.

7:56

Baptism, funerals, weddings, and the Lord's supper.

7:59

So about a 4th of 1 lecture was spent in my entire 8 year bible training career master to lead

8:07

the casket from the hearse to the gravesite, and this is where you should stand.

8:11

And, by the way, here's about 15 popular passages that you can shuffle and have on repeat for your funeral sermon.

8:20

And so whether it's let not your heart be troubled, and I go to prepare a place for you, or

8:25

I am the resurrection and the life, and or the lord is my shepherd, and all of these different

8:31

things that you hear at a lot of funerals. And so preachers are trained to preach funerals.

8:37

A celebrant, on the other hand, is what I became, I became certified as a celebrant.

8:42

That's the term that came out of New Zealand, and I love the, root word.

8:46

It's for, like, celebration, is they're they're taught to celebrate someone's life.

8:53

So let me pick back up to where I was, and the the all these funeral directors started asking

9:00

me 1 by 1, could you do a funeral for us? Sure.

9:05

Well, of course, 95% of these funerals that I was being asked to do was going to be for someone that I've never met.

9:13

I've never known that person. And so I'm introduced to the next of kin, to the husband or wife or daughter or grandchild or whoever.

9:24

And so how am I going to celebrate the life of someone I didn't know?

9:28

And so I developed 5 questions.

9:31

Five questions that if I can ask these 5 questions to as many loved ones as possible, Not only

9:38

is it going to be a personalized service and really going to be about that person, my favorite

9:44

compliment that I've gotten from a dozen funeral directors at least, and they all say the same thing.

9:49

Jason, we've never heard so much laughter coming out of our chapel when you do services here.

9:56

And the first two or three times that happened, I mean, they were like, seriously, what are you doing in there?

10:02

I mean, are you are you like a stand up comedian?

10:04

I mean, why why is there so much? I mean, not just couples.

10:08

I'm talking boisterous laughter, and that just seems about as in place as a milk bucket under

10:15

a bull at a funeral. I mean, you're you just don't expect laughter.

10:21

But laughter through tears happens to be a very healing emotion.

10:26

And the other compliment that I get I get from the people who come to the funeral, the ones

10:32

that are in the crowd, and my favorite compliment is from older people, 70, 80 year old, who

10:38

come up to me and said, son, I just wanna shake your hand. I mean, I'm 55.

10:42

They still call me son. Son, I just wanna shake your hand and tell you I've been going to funerals for over 50 years,

10:49

and I've never seen anything like I saw today.

10:52

I've never heard anything like I heard today.

10:55

Thank you for such a wonderful service.

10:58

And I'm telling you, as a pastor, I never got that.

11:03

As as a preacher who was doing what I learned in my quarter of a lecture from bible college

11:11

and seminary, I did not get any compliments like that.

11:17

So when I started using these questions and made took all of the focus off of just preaching a sermon to, hey.

11:26

Let's really celebrate the loved one's life and make it about them.

11:31

Here's the illustration that I use, Tim, that I often say at the beginning of the service, you

11:36

know, because enough people have been to enough funerals and have had bad experiences, and,

11:44

you know, they're just characterized. If we did a word association game and I said, hey.

11:49

Tell me the first word that comes to your mind when you hear the word funeral or graveside service

11:55

or memorial service or whatever, they're not gonna be positive words in most cases.

12:02

I played the first funeral I ever went to. I was 10 years old, and, my sister's best friend's father had passed away of lung cancer, and

12:12

he was only 40 years old. And it kinda rattled me at the age of 10 because I thought 40 was the age that people died.

12:20

And so I got really nervous when my parents were getting in their late thirties.

12:24

I thought, oh my gosh. I'm gonna they're gonna die.

12:27

But all I remember about that funeral experience was walking into this kind of cold dark building

12:37

and being overwhelmed with the smell of flowers, lots and lots of flowers, and the smell of

12:42

stale coffee that was probably made early that morning, sitting there in the lobby next to some

12:47

sugar cubes and and some hard candy, you know, peppermint.

12:52

And everyone's dressed in black, and everyone's speaking in hushed tones, and they were you

12:58

know, and everyone's just sad and crying.

13:01

And then when the when the funeral started, this organ music, oh my gosh, just like on The Addams Family or something.

13:08

I mean, you hear this organ with the tremolo, really strong, and and and all the canned music,

13:17

the the taped music of George Beverly Shea from Billy Graham Crusade singing How Great Thou Art or whatever.

13:24

And everything was just so predictable and and really kind of boring and sad.

13:32

And people have been to enough traditional funerals like that that their attitude toward their own funeral is, gosh.

13:40

When I die, I don't want anything like that.

13:42

I don't want and and so they they kind of answer me with these kind of faux humility responses

13:50

like, well, I just don't want anybody to make a big deal about me.

13:52

I don't want anybody making a fuss. You know? And I don't care. I'll be dead.

13:56

Just throw me in a box and bury me in the backyard.

13:59

And it's like, well, first of all, that's not legal.

14:02

And and the other thing is we should I mean, your funeral should be the celebration of a life time.

14:13

And so the illustration I used to him is is what no one has ever seen an Olympic athlete win

14:19

gold for his country and the 100 meter dash or something, and he's been training on it for years,

14:27

probably from the time he could walk. You've never seen an Olympic athlete win gold and look over at the judges and say, you know what?

14:34

I don't want us to make a big fuss. I want you to put that medal on a box and just mail it to me. Nobody does that. No. There is a ceremony.

14:43

In that ceremony, they stick that at that that athlete on the highest of the 3 platforms.

14:48

They raise the banner of his country. They put that medal around his neck, and the anthem is played.

14:55

And if you look closely, when they zoom in on his face, what do you see every single time? Tears.

15:01

There are tears on his face. And he's not crying because the race is over. That'd be crazy.

15:09

He's crying, and those are tears of joy because everyone with thunderous applause are saying, look what you did.

15:19

Look what you have accomplished. Well done.

15:22

And that is exactly what I say when I lead a a life celebration for someone who's passed. Look.

15:31

This is his platform, and I may gesture down toward the casket.

15:37

And and you are his banner. You are his anthem.

15:41

And today, we're gonna celebrate.

15:43

We're not gonna cry because the race is over.

15:46

We're gonna celebrate what he's accomplished.

15:50

You know, we're not here because this person has died.

15:53

We're here because he lived, and so that should be celebrated.

15:59

So it's a really long answer to your first question, and I kinda ran together, but I'll be more concise with the next.

16:06

Tim: No. No. That that's that's perfect.

16:08

I and I appreciate you answering it the way you did because as we look at this, and I know you

16:13

are in, you know, the celebrant part of of what we do.

16:18

And and for any of the listeners out there listening to this right now, I'm I'm pretty sure

16:22

you're thinking, what does this have to do with leadership? And we're gonna get to that part.

16:25

And and it's really important to set this up because without getting your key message, you'll

16:30

miss the ending of it. So you mentioned that you wrote a book and you have these 5 questions that you ask during the service.

16:39

So can you talk about those questions and elaborate on them?

16:43

And how did you come up with these questions? Jason: I'd love to. And and I'll tell you, and and it's that's a great segue into the other applications.

16:52

I've discovered 4 applications to these 5 questions, and I was, in when I discovered that, I

17:00

thought I've gotta write this stuff down, and it happened to be, the eve of my 50 first birthday 4 years ago.

17:08

It was Valentine's Day, and I was unmarried at the time, and I didn't have a date.

17:13

It was even a Friday night, triple threat.

17:16

And we also had to shelter in place because this was February 14, 2020.

17:23

And all I had at in my apartment with me was my laptop and my little dog, Chewy.

17:29

And I looked down at Chewy. I said, Chewy, I'm gonna write a book.

17:32

And he looked up at me and said, alright.

17:35

And, he didn't really say that, but I yeah. I lived alone. So the dog talked.

17:41

And I started writing this, and I I had a book written in about 6 weeks because it's all I worked on.

17:46

I just typed about as fast as I could type, and I and I I I was writing based on my experience doing these funerals.

17:56

And so the 5 questions really is just to tell me about your loved one, and I begin with the most basic question.

18:07

What did you call this person? That's number 1.

18:10

What did you call this person? The reason I asked that question, 25 years ago last month, my dad's mother, went to be with

18:19

Jesus, and, we figured she would have been around at least another 20 years.

18:23

Now my father is a pastor and has been for 63 years, and, it's amazing.

18:29

And he so he actually did her funeral and did a remarkable job, because it was his mother.

18:36

He knew her very well. He's known her all his life.

18:39

But had a stranger gotten up and started talking about Mabel Lee Harris because that happened

18:45

to be the name on her obituary, inside my mind, I'd be going, who are you talking about?

18:52

Because even though that was her name, I certainly didn't call her Mabel. That was my mamaw.

18:58

And so when I hear mamaw, my brain goes to chocolate covered tea cake and frame wreck ballads

19:05

and froggy one accordion and little brown jug and all the stories she told, and she was just

19:12

a wonderful, remarkable lady, kind of a mash up of Irma Baumbach and Minnie Pearl.

19:18

And some of your listeners have no idea who either one of those people are.

19:24

But the first question, what did you call this person?

19:28

I'm looking for terms of endearment. You know, my name my full name is Nick Jason Harris, but I go by my middle name, Jason.

19:37

So when somebody calls me and asks for Nick, I know that they're either selling something or

19:41

they don't know me at best. And so I'm looking for terms of familiarity.

19:47

I may make eye contact with the kids on the front row where the family's sitting and talk about

19:53

Gigi or Meemaw or Mimi or grandma or granny or whatever the term of endearment may be because

20:01

that we love the sound of our loved one's name and and what how we refer to them.

20:07

Question number 2 is if you could describe her with just one word, what would it be?

20:16

And, Tim, I can ask that question when I'm doing a family intake and preparing for I'm doing

20:22

a funeral, this Saturday, as a matter of fact.

20:25

And I love to sit down with the family, and I'll put about 20 to 25 hours into a funeral, into

20:31

a live celebration just because I want to do as much research as possible.

20:37

So when I I can ask 10 different family members that question.

20:41

How would you describe her with just one word?

20:43

And I will I can even ask them to write it down.

20:46

And after they've written it down, so can I share your answer?

20:49

It'll be 10 different answers, and every one of them are right.

20:52

And it's it's a beautiful thing, but everyone is saying and I I just tell them, of course, you

20:57

can list more than one adjective or one word that you, you know, but I'm looking for that knee jerk. You know?

21:06

And if I was talking about my grandmother, I'd say my meadow was funny, and she could tell a story.

21:12

But she was also a great cook, and she was also very gracious.

21:17

And so when I when I share the answers that I have harvested at the when I'm doing the funeral,

21:26

I'll finish sharing all of the answers that I had turned into me, and then I'll look out at

21:31

the crowd and I'll say, tell me, what are we leaving out?

21:36

And just raise your hand. And I'm not asking for a speech.

21:39

I'm asking for one word. And guess what?

21:41

The family then gets to hear everyone's answers, and it's like popcorn all over the chapel just

21:48

with these random, you know, shout from various locations in the chapel. She was amazing. She was beautiful. She was gracious. She was kind.

21:59

She was the greatest neighbor or whatever.

22:03

And and what's amazing, the room kinda transforms because everyone comes to the funeral expecting a traditional funeral.

22:14

But in the beginning of the service, I I tell them, look.

22:18

I want you to close your eyes for a minute and let's use our imagination.

22:22

And don't think of this place where we're sitting as a funeral chapel, but rather a giant living room. Okay. You got that image? Okay. Open your eyes.

22:33

We're sitting here in a giant living room with this family, and we're gonna celebrate this wonderful

22:39

lady or this amazing man.

22:42

And so and and at first, they're like, okay. Whatever.

22:46

So when I ask for the one word, people think, oh, okay.

22:50

So this is kinda participatory. And then you kinda fill everyone's shoulders with life as people start to muster the courage

22:59

to to plant their tongue firmly in their cheek and say things like, well, you know, she was

23:05

kinda sassy, or she was stubborn, or whatever.

23:09

Some things that are a little more deprecating, but it makes people smile and laugh because

23:14

they know that it's said and loved.

23:17

And so the third question is, tell me your favorite memory.

23:22

What's one of your favorite memories of or with this person?

23:27

And that can be a general memory, like, someone might say, I love fishing with my grandpa, or

23:33

I love going to movies with mom, or or whatever.

23:38

Or it may be a specific memory that begins something like, you know, I'll never forget the time that this happened.

23:45

And I'm telling you, this is where a lot of the lapper comes from.

23:49

And I'll give you an example. When I first started using these questions, it was with a lady who she and her husband had been

23:57

married for about 26 years, and he she had just lost him not even, you know, 15 hours earlier

24:05

because she was there at the funeral home to make arrangements for him.

24:09

And so I was the one that they asked to do the funeral, so I began to ask for these questions.

24:14

When I got to this question, what's one of your favorite memories with your husband?

24:19

And after 26 years, I was expecting to hear about your honeymoon or maybe a cruise or some kind

24:25

of awesome trip that they had taken.

24:29

But, no, her eyes kind of went up into right where she's accessing that memory and great big

24:36

smile comes across her face, and I never get tired of that. I think, okay. She's got it. What's your favorite memory?

24:43

And she said, you know, we've got a really steep driveway. I said, okay.

24:48

What's that got to do with the price of eggs in China?

24:51

And she said, I once watched my husband ride an office chair out the garage door and down the

24:59

driveway and across the street just to see if he could do it.

25:03

And, Tim, I can hear you chuckling right now, and I'm thinking, you know, you don't even know this guy.

25:08

I haven't even given a name to either one of them.

25:11

But when I re it took me about 7 seconds to say that story, to say that memory.

25:17

But I repeat that story in a room full of people that were his friends and could picture him

25:22

doing that and knew he was a, hey.

25:24

Hold my beer kinda guy or, hey.

25:27

Y'all watch this kinda guy.

25:30

There was boisterous just guffaw.

25:34

People with tears coming down their face, not only because they missed him, but they were laughing that hard.

25:41

And so I the memories are great.

25:43

And and once again, you can open it up.

25:45

Anybody else with a memory, just raise your hand.

25:48

And sometimes I'll walk around with a cordless microphone.

25:52

And if, there are people old enough listening to this to remember Donahue or anyone else, literally

25:58

just walking around with a microphone and letting people share a story, an anecdote, a memory, and it's very interactive.

26:06

And then it gets a little more serious with the 4th question.

26:08

Tell me a life lesson that you gained from this person.

26:11

And you get some pretty profound answers there.

26:16

You know, I probably do this because of him, because of her.

26:20

Something that they always said, something they always did, the way they live their life, and

26:26

and someone may say, you know, this is the this is my takeaway.

26:30

This is what they taught me. This is what I would say is a life lesson.

26:34

And then finally, it is the most emotive question.

26:39

I'll ask, if she could speak to you just one more time, what would she say to you today?

26:45

What would she say to you now? And sometimes this is especially difficult to answer or, you know, pretty emotional to answer

26:53

if it was an unexpected death.

26:55

I can't tell you how many funerals I do of someone who died in a car accident, someone who simply did not wake up.

27:02

They were fine to in fact, I just did a funeral a few weeks ago for a 71 year old man, and his

27:08

wife told me she showed me a a video that she took the night before he died. They've been bowling together.

27:13

And he was laughing, and they were having a great time.

27:16

And they went to bed that night, and the next morning, she got up, made her coffee, and kept

27:22

calling in there saying, hey. Are you gonna you're supposed to stay in there all day?

27:25

And he had actually died about 11 o'clock the previous night.

27:29

And so when there's an unexpected death, I I did one for a 46 year old beautiful lady who's

27:36

a photographer just a couple weeks ago died of a brain aneurysm.

27:41

Nobody knew it was coming. And so sometimes we don't have the opportunity to say goodbye.

27:47

And when someone asks if they could speak to you again, what do you think they would say now?

27:53

What would they say to you? And, of course, those are many times I get, well, I hope she would say I'm proud of you, or

28:00

I I believe she would say I love you.

28:03

But sometimes you get a very, even more profound answer.

28:08

And not that those aren't profound, they are.

28:10

So with those 5 questions, when I share I mean, those really shape the family's writing the eulogy.

28:17

They don't even realize it. And so my job is simply to gather the information.

28:22

And from the pattern of the answers, I may, you know, add some of my own insights and and characterize

28:32

one particular word or theme or something like that.

28:35

But for the most part, it's very simple, and it's it's not really rocket science.

28:39

It's the measure it's a matter of just applying these questions.

28:43

But now the next application, and one of the reasons that I thought I need to start writing

28:49

this stuff down and this happened so organically.

28:53

And for those of you who are business owners, or entrepreneurs, or maybe if you're a CEO or

29:00

or VP or anything like that in your company, it's so important that you get this right.

29:06

Because just as surely as pastors are not taught how to do funeral, people are not taught how to do grief support.

29:14

And if you're listening to this, I know that you'll be nodding your head when I say that sometimes,

29:22

even when people have the best intentions, they can say the worst thing to people who are grieving.

29:29

I mean, really stupid things.

29:32

Someone loses a child, you can and and I've heard people say, well, you know, you're young.

29:39

You can have another one. Or they and I heard a lady say to me just the other night who lost an infant, and someone thinking

29:49

they were comforting her says, well, at least you don't have to potty train them.

29:53

And it's like, are you kidding me? And the other extreme went well, not really other extreme.

29:59

Someone dies in their nice older age, in their eighties or nineties, and people say, well, at

30:04

least they live a good long life, or at least they're not suffering anymore, or anything that starts with that least.

30:10

It's just not gonna land well. And then we've got the cliches. Well, don't worry.

30:14

God won't give you more than you can handle. Or all things work together for good.

30:19

Or all you know, and they throw bible verses at people and that just doesn't land well.

30:24

So what do we say? I use these 5 questions.

30:28

And this is the way it happened, Tim. I'm flying on a plane shortly after I started using these questions to write eulogies, and I'm that guy.

30:38

I'm just gonna warn you now. If you ever ride with me on an airplane or if you happen to sit next to me on an airplane, as

30:43

far as I'm concerned, you're open season, and we're gonna be friends.

30:46

I'm gonna talk to you. And, and so before we even push away from the gate, I've already asked this person, you know,

30:54

are you coming or going, and what do you do, and where do you live, and do you have any kids, and all these things.

31:00

And when they finally reciprocate and ask me, well, Jason, what do you do?

31:05

And as soon as I say, well, it's gonna sound strange, but I love to speak at funerals.

31:11

And they look at me like you need another hobby.

31:14

But I tell them I love to help people celebrate their loved ones when they pass away, and I'm

31:21

very passionate about grief support. 9 out of 10 people that I've ever said those words to immediately

31:30

tell me about someone they've lost. And it sounds something like this.

31:33

They'll say, oh my gosh. Where were you 2 years ago when my mother died?

31:38

And I'll say, oh, your mother died 2 years ago.

31:41

I'm sorry to hear that. Do you mind if I ask you a few questions about your mom?

31:47

And, Tim, I've yet to heard hear anybody reply to that. No.

31:51

I don't wanna talk about her. I mean, they just because they brought her up.

31:56

They're the ones that said, gosh. Where were you 2 years ago when my mother died?

32:01

And so it's so counterintuitive though for us to reply with, hey.

32:06

Let's talk about your mother who passed away.

32:09

Because most people are afraid of someone else's grief.

32:15

They're simply not comfortable with it, and so we try to change the subject.

32:20

So most people would respond to something like, you know, when they say, well, my mother died

32:24

2 years ago to oh, sorry for your loss. How about them cowboys?

32:29

And let's change the subject. And so when I said, may I ask you a few questions about your mom? They're like, sure.

32:36

And I thought, what did you call your mom? Oh, I called her mom.

32:39

Oh, well, what what do your kids call your mom?

32:41

Oh, well, they called her Mimi. Oh, I love that. That's beautiful.

32:45

Do you have any other nicknames? And I just start asking the question.

32:49

And this person who was a perfect stranger 5 minutes ago, together, we're laughing, and then

32:58

at the end, we're both crying And because I'm very much of an empath, when I asked if she could

33:04

speak to you again, what do you think she would say? And, boy, they choke up immediately, and The tears start to fall, and I and I start to cry with them.

33:13

But I want you to know, I've gotten text messages 3 hours after we've landed from a person that

33:20

I never knew before that flight. And they say things like this, you have no idea based on how much I needed that. Thank you.

33:32

And I'm telling you, if you own a business and one of your business partners or one of your

33:38

top clients has a death in their family and you say something like, well, I guess God needed

33:46

another angel or, well, at least she's not tougher anymore or any of those things.

33:53

Sometimes that can be so offensive. It can end a business relationship.

33:58

But if you can say, tell me about your mom, you know, and ask these questions, that person will feel like, wow.

34:08

That never had anything like that when when I've shared something like that.

34:13

So it's so important to, to be able I mean, to just sit there and let them talk.

34:21

And there's a couple of other applications that I I I won't go into, right now. I'd love to share.

34:28

They are in the book. And, well, I will I will just say when when I come, I would love to speak anywhere in the country

34:36

to any church, school, organization, and be a keynote.

34:41

I do a talk called 5 questions that will change your life, and there's a reason why I say that

34:47

will change your life, and it's the final application.

34:51

But I will tell you the third one is, hey.

34:54

Mix it up at your next family reunion or Thanksgiving or Christmas dinner where you have all the family together.

35:02

I have a chapter in the book that says don't wait until death.

35:05

Put everybody's name in a hat. Draw out somebody's name and say, hey.

35:10

We're gonna talk about Tim today. Tim, have a seat up here, and let's all go around the room.

35:16

What does everybody call Tim? What is and and what are the terms of endearment?

35:21

Are there any nicknames or whatever?

35:24

And then if you could describe Tim with one word, what would it be?

35:28

And as everyone around the room hears, boy, the smiles.

35:32

And then, yeah, of course, they you can turn in a little bit more of a roast when the person

35:36

is alive, but it's fun. And tell me about your favorite memory so far. People begin telling stories. Oh my gosh, Tim.

35:43

You remember that time that we went hunting or fishing or that time we went camping or you remember

35:49

when, you know, the wheels fell off your bike or whatever.

35:52

And so people share memories. And then, hey.

35:55

What's a life lesson that you've gained from Tim so far?

35:59

And then the heat gets turned up on Tim when they say when they say, look, Tim, if you were

36:06

ever taken out of this world suddenly, if you didn't make it home tonight, if somebody took

36:11

you out in a car accident, what's the one thing you still wish you could come back and say to each of us? Here's your opportunity. What would you say?

36:21

And, and so you can see that it's, it it it's it's pretty powerful.

36:27

And so it's really, really been I mean, the the stuff almost happened organically and almost accidentally.

36:34

But in employing these 5 questions, both to grief support and to just crafting a very personalized

36:43

eulogy have more than served me well.

36:47

And then I will have to I mean, one of my favorite chapters that I wrote in the book that I

36:52

had the most fun writing is chapter 9. It's called lessons from a hobbit, a grief dog, and a box of magic.

37:00

And all 3 of those most people hear that title and say, what?

37:04

All 3 of those are illustrations of how important it is to stay on the journey with a grieving family. Because if you've been,

37:16

if you yourself have lost a loved one, you know that the that after the funeral, it's very common

37:26

for families to kinda feel abandoned, because we get the most support at the funeral.

37:36

And that's when the family is still sitting there in shock and denial, and they're just kind

37:40

of numb in this fog of the surreal.

37:44

And they're they're just trying to decide, is this really happening?

37:48

Am I really sitting in a funeral home chapel right now?

37:50

Is that really my mother up in that casket?

37:53

And when am I gonna wake up from this bad dream? That's what they're feeling.

37:58

But that's when everybody is trying to get their arms around them and saying, I'm so sorry for your loss.

38:04

And and so it's a couple weeks after the funeral, isn't it, that the reality kind of sets in

38:13

and the proverbial novocaine kind of wears off?

38:18

And people feel like, wow. This really hurts.

38:21

And they look up, and all the crowds are gone.

38:24

Everyone's gone back to work, and the casseroles have stopped coming by, and the cards, the

38:31

flowers, everything that everyone pours out on you at the time of law is gone.

38:37

And then the family proceeds to march right through an entire year of first.

38:47

I mean, think about it. This Sunday is Mother's Day for a lot of people.

38:51

I'm doing a a funeral this Saturday for someone's mother.

38:56

And so Mother's Day is going to be different than all the other Mother's Day before now.

39:02

And, what about the first Thanksgiving? What about the first Christmas?

39:05

What about the loved one's first birthday or an anniversary or any of those things?

39:12

And so I started doing something about 5 years ago.

39:16

I can get a 10 pack of match boxes from Walmart for 97¢.

39:20

And so these match boxes are about 10¢ apiece.

39:24

And what I do is I make labels that would fit perfectly on both sides of the match box.

39:30

And on one side of of the matchbox, I'll have a picture of the loved one who passed away.

39:37

And on the other side, there'll be, you know, their date of birth, date of death, maybe some

39:42

of their nicknames, some of those terms of endearment, and then things that they love, whether

39:47

it would be bowling or or, you know, whatever.

39:53

If they lost if it's somebody who loved to fish or but what I put on there is the PerfLift.

39:59

It's, you know, usually just, something just personalizes the matchbox and just kinda memory matchbox.

40:06

And what I do at the end of the service after I've shared all the answers to the 5 questions

40:12

and we've all laughed and cried together, I'll say before you go, I wanna thank everybody for

40:18

coming to this celebration today on behalf of this family.

40:22

And I know that some of you took off of work to be here today, but I'm gonna tell you something

40:28

you may or may not know. This family doesn't really know that you're here today, and I'll say it right in front of the family.

40:35

And people kinda cock their heads like, what? It's like, yeah. They're on autopilot.

40:40

And they've they've said a 100 times today, thank you for coming.

40:44

Thank you for being here. Thank you for your support.

40:48

I said, but they're absolutely on autopilot. And I'm telling you, if I ask anybody on these first three or four rows next week, name me 5

40:55

people who were at your mother's funeral, I will get deer in the headlights.

40:59

They'll be like, And I tell them, that's exactly why the funeral home gives them a book with

41:03

all your signatures in it. If they ever go back and look at that, they're gonna go, oh, I didn't know that he was there.

41:09

I don't remember seeing her there. Oh my gosh.

41:11

They came from 2 states away. But in about 2 weeks, I said the first tsunami of grief is gonna knock them off their feet,

41:21

and that's when all of you are gonna be back to work.

41:23

So I want you to take one of these matchbox, take it home with you, and put it in your kitchen

41:28

junk drawer because I know you got one.

41:30

And some of you have 3, but that's okay.

41:33

Just put it in your favorite kitchen junk drawer.

41:36

And throughout this next year, every time you go to, like, birthday candles at a birthday party

41:43

or dinner candles or a fire in the fireplace or a barbecue pit or if you're just going for that

41:50

pair of scissors or the roll of tape, and you roll that drawer out and you see this picture,

41:56

this matchbox, and I'm looking up at you.

41:59

And you won't need these to remember her. Everybody's gonna remember her.

42:03

But reach out to her daughter, reach out to her son, reach out to her husband, reach out to

42:09

a family member, and simply, it is all I want you to say. Hey.

42:14

Do you remember those match boxes the weird bald guy gave us that we thought would never shut up?

42:19

Well, we just used those matches today, and I want you to know we sure miss her.

42:24

And I'm thinking about you. And and I and I warned people then and there.

42:28

I said, now if you're planning on saying anything stupid, you don't get a matchbox.

42:33

Because I don't want anybody call up saying, how are you doing?

42:36

Because, I mean, that's just not a fair question to ask.

42:40

And and don't don't call and say anything that starts with at least. Simply convey a memory.

42:45

You might say, you know, I can't even look in the choir loft anymore without picturing your

42:51

mom up there or your grandma, or I can't pass the lake without thinking about your dad out there

42:57

fishing on the lake, or something like that.

43:01

You might even say, gosh. Nobody made apple pie like your grandmother.

43:05

Apple pie will never taste the same, and I sure miss her.

43:09

But it's a it's a tangible reminder to stay on the journey with the family.

43:17

Because it's it's one thing to go to a funeral and help someone celebrate someone's life, and

43:24

it's something next level to have a reminder to reach out to those family members.

43:32

And if you want as far as business is concerned, if you really want to shine, and this shouldn't

43:39

be your alter ulterior motive, but if you really want to have an impact on business partners

43:45

and people that you serve and you know that someone has passed away, put some reminders in your

43:53

calendar to reach out at Easter and Thanksgiving and Christmas and significant dates and holidays

44:02

are just a random time that's gonna remind you to reach out to that client or friend on certain

44:11

days and just say, hey. I want you to know I'm thinking about you. You're not alone.

44:16

One of the greatest things that you can say when you go in for that hug at someone's funeral is not some cliche.

44:25

But whisper in their ear, you're not alone. I'm here.

44:29

That's the most significant gift you can give is your present.

44:35

So I've been monologuing for a long time here, Tim, and, I hope you're still there.

44:42

Tim: No. I I am still here, and I've just been listening because it it's incredibly important.

44:46

I didn't wanna interject because everything you said was incredibly important. Yep.

44:51

And just like we had on our our previous conversations earlier, I'm still reminded of we don't have to wait.

44:58

And and you put that in your book too. You you said don't wait until death. You know? That's right.

45:03

Why do we wait until death?

45:05

I I would say, as far as leadership goes, you know, it's important that people treat people like people.

45:11

And grief and death and passing is a part of life and a part of humanity.

45:16

And we don't and we don't get training in that.

45:20

A lot of times in life, we don't. You know, I have a job that had a lot of death, in it.

45:26

And, honestly, just like you said, I you know, where were you, like, 2 years ago?

45:30

Where were you, you know, like, 15 years ago or 10 years ago?

45:33

You know what I mean? So it's it's interesting because anybody can take these 5 questions.

45:39

And that's why I think your book is so powerful.

45:41

You could take these 5 questions and you can interject them into your life.

45:46

You can actually interject them when people get promoted and they leave organizations.

45:51

You know, you you can celebrate the time that they spent there and celebrate them moving on to a better place.

45:58

And even if they quit. Right? You say, you know what? I just quit for whatever reason.

46:01

You can still celebrate them. And and like you said, get them together and kinda do, like, not like a little roe session,

46:07

but kind of celebrate their life.

46:09

And all too often, I think we focus on the negative portions and the negative aspects.

46:14

And this brings everything back into the positive light with the celebration of life and the celebration of people.

46:21

Jason: That's such a great point, Tim. As a matter of fact, my wife recently she and I have only been married, for it'll be 2 years

46:30

next month, and so we're still pretty newly wed.

46:33

But, about a year ago, she was transitioning from an executive director of a mission center

46:40

here in Mansfield, Texas, and she had been the leader of for 8 years prior and took a position

46:48

as a professor at, UPA, the University of Texas in Arlington, teaching philanthropy and, and

46:56

and nonprofit and that sort of thing.

46:59

Well, having been the executive director of this mission center for 5 for 8 years, we were having

47:06

a a party for her where, you know, a lot of people that have been impacted by what she has done

47:15

was was at this party. And I I thought, hey.

47:19

I'm gonna put these 5 questions out about my wife.

47:23

And so there they were. And it it it was kind of a modified version because, you know, that 5th question, if she could

47:29

speak to you one more time, what would she say to you would would be different.

47:33

But, but it gave people the opportunity to to write down.

47:38

But, you know, what do you call Carmen? Do you have any nicknames for her?

47:40

If you could describe her with one word, what would it be?

47:43

Would it tell me describe one of your favorite memories with her over these last 8 years, and,

47:49

what is a life lesson you've gained from her?

47:52

And, and I tell you, it was it was remarkable, and it it and so that is.

47:57

But to your point also,

48:02

on social media, you see all the time people posting.

48:06

It was it's been 5 years that my father, passed away or whatever.

48:11

People commemorate anniversaries of people's death.

48:15

And I tell you what, it to blast these 5 questions on social media and say, hey. Do me a favor.

48:23

If you knew my dad, answer these 5 questions and respond in the comments.

48:29

And, and sometimes and I even do that with families that I'm doing the eulogy or or the life

48:34

celebration for their loved one. I I ask them, hey.

48:38

Put these 5 questions on social media, and and people bring me the responses.

48:43

As long as they do that before, you know, the service, I can I can use them?

48:48

But the other thing I'll say about the 5 questions, I love putting these 5 questions out the night before a funeral.

48:55

A lot of times, there's a way for a visitation, and, and it's a wonderful thing to have at the top of the page.

49:03

Like, this Saturday, I'm doing a a, the life celebration for a lady.

49:07

Her first name is Eva, and that's all I'll say.

49:11

But I will have on a card about a half page with a photograph of her, and it says at the top, remembering Eva.

49:21

And there's a place for your name. How did you know Eva?

49:24

Were you a cousin, a neighbor, a friend? You know, whatever relative.

49:28

And then I have the 5 questions. I gotta tell you, Tim, people love having something to fill out at the visitation because it

49:38

gives them something to do. Those of you who are listening, you know that if you drop by a a visitation at a funeral home,

49:45

you sign the book, you hug somebody's neck, say I'm sorry for your loss. Now what?

49:50

Everyone stands around and you're uncomfortable.

49:52

And, and so if there is something that people can sit down and fill out the answers to 5 questions,

50:00

they have time to think about their answers, and then I get to harvest all of those answers

50:07

and then go home and complete, you know, finish writing the manuscript.

50:11

Because I love the manuscript, everything that I'm going to say at the funeral.

50:14

The reason I do that, number 1, the family probably isn't hearing every word I say at the funeral,

50:20

and then I can give it to them afterwards and say, if you wanna go back and read this, you can.

50:25

It also keeps me on track because I'm very ADD, ADHD, l m n o p.

50:30

I mean, I've got it all. So I'm easily distracted, so it kinda keeps me on the rails.

50:35

And, but but the other thing about it is the family can go back and reread those answers, these

50:44

hard copies of these answers that people filled out at visitation for months to come, and it's

50:49

just a beautiful tribute to their loved one.

50:53

So that really is I could sum up everything.

50:59

The celebration should emphasize the person's life.

51:06

What I I'll often say, we're here to celebrate what they did on the dash.

51:09

And if you're unfamiliar with that expression, it's that little dash that appears from your

51:13

date of birth to your date of death on a tombstone or a headstone, and it's not a very big dash.

51:20

And everybody listening to this podcast right now, you're on that dash, and you should consider

51:25

what am I doing on my dash.

51:28

And that because that's really what is celebrated at the end of the dash, at the end of your

51:33

life is, you know, we're not here because you died.

51:38

We're here to celebrate because you lived.

51:41

And so, consider, do you have terms of endearment?

51:48

And are you, if people could describe you with just one word, what would it be, and what do

51:54

you hope that would be? And most importantly, are you being it?

51:58

And then, also, are you making memories?

52:02

Are you teaching life lessons? And if there is just one last thing you could say to someone if you were taken out of this world.

52:12

If there's one thing you really wish you could go back and say to your spouse, to your kids,

52:16

to your friends, what would that be?

52:21

And if you know what that would be, I don't after you've listened to this podcast, just pick

52:27

up the phone and call them and say, you know, if I haven't told you lately, I love you.

52:32

And you're special, and I'm so grateful to have you in my life.

52:36

And I'm proud of you. You know?

52:39

Because we need to say that more often instead of it just being, gosh, I hope that they would

52:47

say that they were proud of me or whatever.

52:50

Say it often and say it with as much love as you can.

52:56

Tim: And for everybody out there, I would say, I know you got value out of this episode.

53:01

So go ahead and look down into the descriptions below.

53:04

And in the descriptions below this episode, you're gonna find all the links for Jason and his

53:09

book and how you can reach out to him. And even if you want him to come talk, you know, at a service, all of that information's gonna

53:15

be in the description, down below. So go ahead and take a quick moment.

53:19

Take a look at that because I know you got some value out of this, and I know you got some value from Jason.

53:23

So, Jason, thank you so much, for coming on the show and sharing your insights into what you

53:28

do and being so passionate about what you do.

53:30

It definitely comes through, and I really appreciate it.

53:33

And 2, sharing how is it also applies to current life because as we celebrate, you know, death,

53:39

we also need to celebrate life while we're currently doing it.

53:42

So thank you for sharing. Jason: It has been an honor and, a pleasure. And you're absolutely right.

53:49

I am deeply passionate about this, and I would love to come and speak, anywhere, within the sound of your listeners.

53:59

And and and so, whether it's a keynote or a breakout or at a church or a school, any organization

54:08

or, a podcast, anything like that.

54:11

So thank you so much for having me on here, Tim.

54:14

I've really, really enjoyed it. Tim: As always, thank you for stopping by and listening to this episode, and I really hope that you enjoyed it.

54:21

Before we go, I would like to ask a favor of you, if I could.

54:24

If you could please share this episode with 1 or 2 people who you think might like this topic.

54:30

If you haven't followed or subscribed on the platform that you're listening to this on, please

54:34

hit that button in the alert icon so that you you know when we post another episode.

54:39

If you got some value out of this episode, please leave a review or a comment so we could help

54:44

spread the show to people who just haven't found the show yet, but are interested in the same topics that you are.

54:50

Again, thanks for stopping by. I'm Tim Staton. Dating the obvious.