0:00

What's up everybody, it's Austin Rivers from Off

0:02

Guard and I've got some exciting news. Off

0:05

Guard hosted by me and my guy Pasha Hagigi

0:07

is officially moving to our own podcast feed.

0:09

We are now dropping two shows every week. Me

0:12

and Pasha go way back and talk so much

0:14

hoops already that we figured it was time to fire

0:16

up the mics and let you in on these conversations.

0:19

Every week, Pasha and myself will hit on the biggest

0:21

stories happening around the league. Tap into

0:23

the show twice a week on our new Off Guard feed,

0:26

on Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

0:32

I need supports to have to clear

0:34

the room.

0:35

Stand up and walk. Now. Hello

0:38

and welcome to The Watch. My name is Chris Ryan.

0:41

I am an editor at TheRinger.com

0:43

and joining me in the studio, 800 episodes

0:46

old and it feels

0:48

like the first time. It's Andy Greenwald!

0:51

Isn't this episode 804? It is. It

0:53

is technically a belated 800th episode celebration.

0:56

It's my 800th episode because I've missed three.

0:59

That's the only amount you missed? Only three. Remember

1:01

when you made prior patch? Nope. Never talk about

1:04

it. This is my 804th episode.

1:08

It's awesome.

1:08

They don't count unless you're there. That's

1:11

not, it's your 803rd because you defiantly

1:13

missed the succession finale. That's right. I

1:16

tried. That's the only one. It's

1:19

the only one you missed. Andy, it's great to see you. It's

1:22

great to be here on a Thursday. You

1:24

can feel a little pep in Los Angeles' step.

1:26

Hollywood is back. Merry Christmas.

1:29

The strike is over. Last night,

1:31

sort of in the mid evening, I guess.

1:33

It was like 4.45 PM. As I was

1:35

watching Sixers Celtics, we get across the- Did

1:37

they play? Did the Sixers beat

1:40

the greatest starting lineup of the

1:42

21st century? Sir. Amazing.

1:46

So yeah, the SAG and the

1:48

studios came to an agreement and

1:51

as of midnight on Thursday, 12.01 on

1:54

Thursday, yeah,

1:55

there's more back to work. So I really enjoyed watching

1:58

Zac Efron and Harris Dickinson- formed

2:01

in real time that the strike was over. Oh,

2:03

I didn't see that. And, you know, there was

2:05

parties. Heads were at its Sunset Tower

2:07

last night. Do you know, I know

2:09

you know because you're a big history guy, like when prohibition

2:12

ended and like people are like sabering champagne

2:14

in the streets and just the liquor was flowing. Yeah. That's

2:17

what it was like on Instagram this morning when

2:19

suddenly everyone could promote projects

2:21

that they would not promote it for six months.

2:23

Oh, this is for real though.

2:26

For real though. That really sucks

2:28

though for because like Dune, I mean they would

2:30

have needed to have promoted Dune, but this was

2:33

Dune weekend was last weekend in Chalamet

2:35

on SNL. Yeah, but he's there to promote

2:37

his fashion. Yes. Well, now he can walk out there

2:39

and be like, I'm Willy Wonka bitch. That's

2:45

how he should say it. That's my line read for Tim. You

2:47

know, I know he's been out of practice with the strikes. Today

2:50

on the watch we're going to do a belated

2:53

800th episode mailbag. And

2:55

then here's what's going to happen next week. Monday we're

2:58

going to do the Loki season

3:00

finale and the season premiere of The Curse. So

3:03

that's your weekend watch in assignments.

3:05

There will be other curse content

3:07

and Loki content you can hit up, but you can

3:10

only get our brand

3:12

of weathered cynicism in one place. And

3:15

then that stuff, you can find that on Prestige TV

3:17

and Ring of Verse and House of Ar. And

3:19

then Rob Harvillo is going to join

3:22

next Monday to talk about his book version

3:24

of 60 songs to explain the 90s. I

3:26

am also going to be doing a live show with Rob

3:28

and Yasi from Bandsplain next week

3:31

at the Teragram. On your birthday

3:33

Eve. Birthday Eve. And

3:35

then also next week we will probably be discussing

3:38

at various points a murder at the end of the world.

3:40

And I think Monarch.

3:43

Monarch's coming out next Friday. So it might

3:45

wait a week, but there's also the killer

3:48

sitting Netflix. Which I would consider,

3:50

seriously consider possibly

3:54

my favorite movie of the year. And

3:57

then there's also your second favorite movie of the year. opening

4:00

tonight the Marvels which we will

4:03

be addressing yeah when the time is right okay

4:06

um I believe the judge in the New York case has issued

4:08

a gag order on her with that

4:10

dude anger on what's his name what's

4:12

that judge's name was doing Trump something like that and

4:14

they just just like yelling you motherfucker

4:17

each other in court it's cool

4:19

you can say lots of stuff now in court like

4:22

you can just say stuff now yeah for years

4:24

operated under this fiction this country like

4:26

the first MF where I've dropped on this podcast

4:29

I was shocked yeah kind

4:31

of back and ungeed different generation

4:34

she's used to working blue talk strike

4:36

briefly yeah sure it's exciting yeah

4:39

I'm thrilled it's exciting it was it was

4:41

darkest before the dawn it was truly like I was

4:44

like man this is gonna be really

4:46

really bad not bad like

4:48

the union needed to cave and right go back

4:50

early but I was just like if if

4:53

they just say hey Thanksgiving's here so we'll see you

4:55

guys in January it's it's just gonna feel fucking

4:58

dark I just didn't say I mean it's easy to

5:00

say this now I don't think that was I just

5:02

don't see how anyone could have done that I think that

5:05

you do begin when you're a veteran you know

5:07

of labor movements like I am you know having

5:09

been through one recently

5:13

there are clearly some patterns

5:15

that you can begin to recognize like when they when

5:18

the two sides sit down and start talking and

5:20

keep talking yes and not do the two-week

5:22

break in between talks you want to do the in

5:25

the end game now in the end game but then game

5:27

in the Thanos voice

5:32

no can I do that have I done that before

5:34

no I'm just free-pitching you ideas now okay

5:36

um so that seemed clear the

5:40

AMP TP could posture all they want about

5:43

you know absolute

5:45

deal-breakers walkaway points or whatever but

5:47

what were they going to do who are they going to populate

5:50

their movies and TV shows with if not actors

5:52

so it does seem like a deal was inevitable

5:55

I was listening to sag after his chief negotiator

5:57

Duncan crapp tree Ireland on Matt

5:59

Bellamy's podcast this morning.

6:03

It seems like they got

6:05

it to where they needed to get it. You know, we'll see the details

6:08

over the next few weeks. I think it's interesting

6:11

and notable and honestly of a piece with the

6:13

tenor of this podcast over the last few weeks that

6:15

the general response

6:17

to the conclusion of what has been six

6:20

months of work stoppage in Hollywood has

6:22

been let's say muted. What

6:25

do you mean? We'll see what happens

6:27

over the next months and years

6:29

but I think in the gap

6:32

between the WJ deal

6:34

and the SAG deal last night, the

6:37

overstory has sort of baked in that

6:41

these are great gains for the members of the union

6:43

that will be able to... You're in the great gain now.

6:45

That's good! That

6:47

was good. We'll

6:50

be able to take advantage of them but we are

6:52

in the midst of a great contraction that was

6:55

starting before these things... before

6:57

the strikes launched and who

7:00

knows that there's gonna be less stuff

7:03

and people and not only that, there are

7:05

very very very crowded runways right now.

7:08

So you know from my own experience in the SAGs,

7:10

I mean on the WGA stuff, development

7:12

is back in full swing but

7:15

it is a little hunger game-sy. Yeah

7:17

right. Like not just in terms of

7:20

what's going to get even onto the

7:22

flight schedule considering how much stuff has been pushed.

7:25

Stuff that was supposed to be starting filming greenlit

7:27

already but is now being pushed into the new year

7:30

but also just like there's

7:33

a lot of... the vibes are a lot

7:35

of a lot less I'm going to

7:38

sell my original idea and get an overall deal

7:41

and become the next David Chase or Matt Weiner

7:43

and more like could I please be

7:45

the number two on the third season of a show. Right.

7:48

Kind of vibes. There's nothing wrong with being

7:51

anything on a show, a returning show, but

7:53

I do think that the the

7:56

margins are shifting in real time and we're gonna

7:58

figure out what that feels like. Speaking of... original

8:00

ideas. Anyone's original

8:02

ideas. This was a headline last night on Deadline as I

8:05

was settling in to watch Survivor and turning off

8:07

my internet for the evening. Deadpool

8:10

3, Gladiator 2, Beetlejuice 2,

8:13

Jura Number 2, Venom 3

8:16

among film productions to restart ASAP

8:18

as Hollywood returns. Wow. Hollywood

8:20

is fat, baby. Our best

8:22

and brightest. I'm surprised Jura Number 2 is not

8:25

completely locked. Clint Eastwood's

8:27

usually like, I need two days. Seriously.

8:29

Well, I think they probably unplugged his

8:31

Vitamix and that's the thing he needs most in the morning.

8:33

I thought when you were saying

8:35

that you were watching Survivor, I thought you meant the

8:37

fourth quarter of Sixers Celtics. I

8:39

was never stressed out about that, Andy. It's fucking

8:42

November. I am not going to be stressed out about

8:44

the Sixers. Look,

8:46

you... I don't have League Pass. So

8:49

I wasn't watching the game. You were following ESPN Gamecast

8:52

and my... But then I was driving. Right. And

8:54

then I was getting texts from you and from our buddy's

8:56

act. You still weigh in as if you're

8:58

watching. It seems like they're going to blow it.

9:01

Because Zach was not liking our

9:04

fourth quarter offense. Yeah, but Embiid was sitting. I was

9:06

like, we just have to weather the Embiid moments.

9:08

That's all we got to do. Yeah, but also you were probably

9:11

starting Derek White and Fanny. I was

9:13

starting Derek White.

9:16

See? Unbelievable.

9:20

There's many ways to live in this world. Okay?

9:22

I think we're going to get to the core of those questions. I'm

9:25

not saying out loud like I do. And there's a living in

9:27

a perpetual fan duel. I've

9:29

maybe read... I read Tigger Taylor's Little Spide

9:31

too many times. And that's why I

9:33

just have tons of cowboys and something.

9:36

Unbelievable. Look, he's

9:39

an effective guard. You know? Jamal

9:41

Murray got hurt. I had to do what I had to do.

9:43

Andy, let's get into our mailbag questions. Thanks

9:45

to all of our listeners. Or

9:48

even just Looky Loos who were like, ooh, I can submit a

9:50

mailbag question? I don't listen to that pod. But

9:52

thank you to all of our listeners. Tell the people that did

9:54

that? No, I think these are pretty

9:57

on the nose actually. I

10:00

just want to say thank you to everybody who listens to the watch

10:03

and has been listening to the watch for a long time or to new

10:05

listeners It's still the

10:07

great pleasure of my professional life to

10:09

come in here twice a week with Kaya. Yeah

10:13

And then record the rewatchables and then in

10:15

your downtime Crack

10:17

up Poland Springs and talk to your old

10:19

pal. This is arrowhead, baby. No

10:22

free. Yeah. Well, I'm just saying what it is I mean

10:24

just being accurate my report on Poland

10:26

Springs canceled. No That's

10:28

an East Coast thing. Oh

10:30

it is. Yeah,

10:30

I would I would be drinking Poland spring

10:32

every day if they had out here Well,

10:35

it's so good. Yeah, don't you have

10:37

like preferences and bottled water? No I

10:41

preference in anything else. Are you serious? Yes,

10:43

you know this Well, I'm not gonna say in

10:45

case anybody wants to get involved with the watches on

10:47

the on the advertising side But let me just say I have preferences.

10:50

Okay. Yeah And they're

10:52

not expensive I'm actually

10:54

I just have like a defined palette when it

10:57

comes to a water actually Kaya and I are proud

10:59

that we don't have To find pallets because we carry our

11:01

own reusable water bottle. Sure. Okay,

11:03

you guys are the paragons of minds

11:06

full of Fiji water imported

11:08

from Kaya

11:11

has the last drops of the Colorado River Drinking

11:16

very slowly Thankfully, do

11:18

you think we should have an 800 listener club like

11:20

people who have Remember like the 800 club

11:22

the five the five timers Club on Saturday

11:24

Night Live like people who have listened to every episode of

11:26

the podcast Yeah, I mean that would be

11:29

a very I almost feel like if you could somehow prove

11:31

that you should be able to be a guest On the show one day.

11:33

Okay, but I agree. We should come out as

11:36

metric for that. Anyway, thank you to all the listeners

11:38

Thank you to Kaya for producing us. It's

11:40

always it's always just a real thrill. Are

11:43

you leaving? It seems like you're rapping I was just

11:45

trying to be like sentimental and like like

11:47

appreciate people Uh, that

11:49

being said the first two questions about

11:51

whether or not you and I still have the

11:54

juice to do this show And

11:56

whether or not we like TV There's

12:00

two questions. One comes from Kirk Anderson on

12:03

Twitter, Kirk Serious Face, I

12:05

think a long time listener, and I like Kirk

12:07

a lot. What is the current definition of pop culture

12:10

if monoculture is dead? I ask because

12:12

it's a pop culture pod and y'all have been very

12:15

frustrated with the state of TV for a while now.

12:17

And a kind of tie into that, Nathan

12:19

Knowles asks, do you ever feel

12:21

burnt out on the medium entirely?

12:24

And I assume he was talking about TV and

12:26

not podcasting. Right. You can only

12:28

be burnt out on one. Podcasting is a vibrant

12:30

art form. Yeah. I feel good about it. So

12:33

I put these two together because I think you

12:36

could take a small sample size of the last few

12:38

weeks of the show and be like, man, these guys sound

12:41

like they're short timing it. And that's not

12:43

the case. I went back and you know what?

12:46

Look, we were

12:48

doing cartwheels about various

12:50

shows as recently as July,

12:52

August. We were still

12:54

running on fumes from the bear.

12:57

There was an incredible early part of the year. I think

12:59

I had like a 12, 15, 20 long list show of like,

13:04

these could all be in the contention for the top 10. We had

13:06

Succession and Barry running back to back for

13:08

a bunch of weeks. We've had a really good time. And

13:11

in some ways I think that we

13:13

have been very lucky over the last 10,

13:16

11 years of podcasting in general, but the watch

13:19

specifically of benefiting

13:21

from a really awesome time in television

13:23

where it's pretty rare that

13:26

there's not something on that we're like both very

13:28

locked in on and watching. So this

13:31

last few months have been a little bit of an anomaly

13:33

and they just so happen to correspond with labor

13:36

stoppages, which I don't think is

13:38

a coincidence. I think whether it's

13:41

just an anecdotal feeling of kind of not

13:44

despair, but like a little bit of depression

13:47

about the sort of pop culture industry.

13:49

And then also like some

13:51

shows getting moved. We should have had True

13:54

Detective by now. Like some shows getting kicked

13:56

down the road a little bit because they couldn't be properly

13:58

promoted the same thing for some of the summer movies. and

14:00

some of the fall movies. I think that that

14:02

contributed a little bit to it. And I also think,

14:06

well, I have like a longer answer about the

14:08

medium of television, but I don't know if you want to chime

14:10

in here about anything. Yeah, before we turn to

14:12

the TV thing in specific, I thought I was

14:15

taken with the idea of what is pop culture

14:17

at this moment. I don't really have an answer. I feel like we should

14:19

call our buddy Chuck Close-Terman to weigh in, because I feel

14:21

like that's something he's probably thinking about in a much

14:23

more expansive way than we are. But

14:27

one of the themes of, if not a sub-theme

14:29

of this podcast, but a theme of the conversations that we

14:31

have when I'm not letting you know what's actually

14:33

happening in the sports game you're watching and I'm not, is

14:36

this idea of like what, who

14:39

is this talking to? What are we talking about?

14:43

I'm continually struck by the fact that just more

14:45

and more, and I think this has a lot to do with social media

14:47

and the way we devour content, it's like everything is

14:50

just fractured and nothing is speaking to each other. This

14:52

is going to, this is foreshadowing a really good question

14:55

we have later in the podcast about what music we like right now.

14:57

But I was thinking about how, by my,

15:01

from where I'm sitting, 2023 is like

15:03

the best year for shoegaze,

15:06

maybe since 1991. But

15:09

parse that sentence for me. Speaking of

15:11

fractured popcorn. That's exactly why I'm saying that,

15:14

right? Yeah. Because I'm like, oh my god.

15:16

The idea of you being on a soapbox and Hyde Park

15:18

and being like, shoegaze is back. That's

15:20

the only place where it would work. I know. That's

15:23

the only place they would care. The following. No,

15:25

I'm saying that doesn't, that so doesn't matter.

15:27

It's tremolo in it. Is

15:30

that a pedal in it? No,

15:33

like, what's that we're going to talk about later, probably like Hotline

15:35

TNT. Drop

15:37

19s are back. Slow Dive is back. These

15:40

are great records that have absolutely

15:43

nothing to say about the larger state of the

15:45

world or about music. Like, you could listen to these

15:47

records and be like, this is a vibrant

15:50

scene that is not having a conversation

15:53

at all with anything else in

15:55

music. Yeah. And I take

15:58

there's good and bad to that. The good

16:00

is that we're getting all of these great things within

16:02

this one Genre for

16:04

people who really really like that genre The

16:07

bad thing is it's just sort of talking to itself

16:09

and it's a closed circuit And I feel like that's

16:11

a larger problem with culture As

16:13

a whole and that kind of bums me out. I also

16:16

feel and I you know, I don't I Don't

16:19

like to steer into our weaknesses because

16:21

I think they are a few But

16:24

I assume that there is a vibrant we're just

16:26

for perfectionists We're just rigorous

16:29

about getting everything right. I

16:31

assume pop culture hermonoculture

16:34

is just tick-tock now I

16:36

like and we are not we are not on

16:39

I would be really annoyed if I was 22

16:41

and a 45 year old Yes

16:43

guy was telling me what pop

16:45

culture was so with that in mind I will

16:47

just say that the biggest observation I was able to pull

16:49

out of like these two questions Kirk's Kirk's

16:52

question specifically but to some extent Nathan's question

16:54

about the medium of television is

16:56

that It was easy to

16:59

sort of identify what culture was when someone

17:02

else was identifying it for you like who well

17:04

when we were growing Up right would buy a device

17:07

Mm-hmm, and for the most part like the

17:09

radio or television, right? They would tell

17:11

you what it's on They would say here's the show that

17:13

is on. Yeah, it was time. It was there was no

17:15

there was not this act of Customization

17:19

and personal curation that you could do and

17:22

even when you were like buying CDs or buying

17:24

VHS or renting tapes or whatever Like there

17:27

was like a physical act and also a transactional

17:29

act that would like went into that that made it a much

17:31

more I don't know like

17:34

a much more Like

17:36

like meaningful or intentional cost

17:39

something. Yeah, give your money We've

17:41

joked before about that like just sitting there

17:43

with 20 bucks in your pocket With four

17:45

CDs like on a stack and just being like what like

17:48

trying to use the force to figure out what you will like More

17:50

out of these two or three CDs and then knowing

17:52

you would have to like sell it back To if

17:54

you wanted to like get back into the to

17:56

the black and it happened to be 30 years ago today,

17:59

November 9th I didn't 1993 when enter the Wu

18:01

Tang and tribe called question midnight marauders were

18:03

released and the same day What

18:05

would you do? Wait? So is this train spotting day to? Know

18:09

that was my you say 96. Okay. So

18:11

my point is when I sit at home

18:13

now, mm-hmm It's

18:15

very different to be like

18:18

I have at my fingertips Most

18:20

of the great films of world cinema. Mm-hmm Every

18:24

NBA game that's being played tonight I mean Any

18:28

television show for the most like 90% of

18:30

television that I want to watch

18:32

from the last 15 years

18:36

10 streaming services

18:39

from the most broad to the most niche

18:41

specific thing and I always

18:43

constantly have to ask myself like what am I really

18:45

what in the mood for and Fight

18:49

off the nagging feeling like I could be doing something

18:51

more meaningful like with my time like watching criterion

18:53

movies Like that that is like a

18:56

very modern and a very specific

18:58

experience that I think we just did

19:00

not have back then also, what's missing from that

19:02

is the fact that you could be wrong one thing

19:04

that was nice about the lack

19:06

of curation and choice was not just

19:09

the relief of the pressure I think this is what's

19:11

on tonight. It was like I didn't realize I was

19:13

in the mood for this until I started watching it Yeah, which

19:15

is the greatest part about like movies on cable

19:17

is when you're just like oh the firm is on. That's

19:19

great So it's funny though because your point

19:22

which I agree with completely is the idea that

19:24

it was that there was there was some benefit

19:26

to a one-way flow, mm-hmm I

19:29

think the one of the things that I feel

19:31

is missing and I think we still struggle to

19:33

form our conversations around the absence

19:36

of Is the sense that the

19:38

formative culture of our lives? All

19:41

of it was in response to something else because

19:43

it was there was only one bucket So

19:45

when we talk about you know in

19:48

at the end of high school getting into like pavement

19:50

or guided by voices They sounded that way

19:53

because the bands on the radio sounded a different way

19:56

This is like the oppositional thing when

19:58

we talk about you know how exciting it was

21:59

but is a lot of a week if

22:02

you have other stuff going on and I Think

22:05

that there's an act that there's a part of television

22:07

now that feels very

22:11

Kind of labor-intensive, you know, like Part

22:14

of it is because there's just so much on so stuff falls through

22:16

the cracks part of it is also like

22:19

the not untypical Experience

22:22

of like well, I should give this like three episodes

22:24

to get its feet. That's a

22:26

long time man That's what killers the flower

22:28

moon is You know what I

22:30

mean? Like you can give

22:32

it a show that starts out. Shakily

22:35

three episodes to find its feet or

22:37

you can Do something else and

22:40

I think that it's not uncommon

22:42

to watch TV critics who

22:44

watch a ton of TV Be very

22:47

difficult to please You know because

22:49

they start to get a little bit more hostile about Mediocrity

22:52

because they know that that mediocrity is still

22:54

an enormous time commitment on their parts and

22:56

that's why sometimes I feel like you can hear

22:58

a little bit of like Another

23:01

show that's having a seven-year flashback But

23:04

also a lot of that I totally agree with that by the

23:06

way And it's really funny to think about flipping the conversation

23:09

like instead of being instead of saying wow I

23:11

can't believe Martin Scorsese needed three hours

23:13

to do killers the flower moon instead be like It's

23:16

three hours and we still don't know what these bodies

23:18

are doing these four time periods in London. Yep Come

23:22

on. Yeah, Marty just made a grand

23:25

statement About the Osage in that amount

23:27

of time Yeah, I think

23:29

also broadly speaking if I

23:31

may speak for you I think that and this is kind

23:33

of high-minded I guess like I think that

23:36

we continue to be as Inspired

23:38

and exhilarated and engaged by art and

23:41

creativity and good stuff as

23:43

we ever have That's the one of the reasons why we became

23:45

friends the year Kaya was born, but I

23:48

think I It's

23:51

also and this may seem counter

23:53

to the purpose of this podcast at least as it was introduced

23:56

But like TV is a pretty imperfect

23:58

vessel for people like Chasing

24:00

artistic highs. Mm-hmm historically

24:03

that's been the case and again We're kind

24:06

of steering into a fallow period now

24:08

I think that it ends up being kind of a in

24:10

some ways the best of many imperfect

24:13

options because a There's a ton of TV

24:15

and there's a ton of ways to engage with it and

24:17

a bunch of different ways to try to use it To interpret

24:19

what works or what doesn't on a just

24:21

purely aesthetic level. Yeah but I

24:24

think that it can be challenging

24:26

at a time when most of what's being shoveled

24:29

into the trough is Fine

24:31

or worse, right? to

24:34

hear the same level of enthusiasm in our voices

24:37

that we might have for a book we read

24:39

or a New Yorker review of a painting exhibit

24:41

that we haven't seen. Okay, sorry. I'll speak for myself but

24:44

um But that said and you

24:46

know for whatever relevance it has in this conversation One

24:49

of the reasons why I still love Working

24:52

in TV on the other side of it is that To

24:55

be around people who are continually day-to-day

24:58

turned on by the possibility of Problem-solving

25:02

in a script or collaborating on an idea

25:04

or fixing a story like that's

25:07

that's still the currency in Quote

25:10

unquote this town in a way that is pretty

25:12

unique not the town but this yeah, but

25:14

it's special I think when it's possible.

25:16

Yeah, and it's hard to be despite

25:18

rising cynicism on everything. It's

25:21

Still amazing that it's a job to sit

25:23

in a room with smart people and come up with stories like that That's

25:26

still rules even if the end result doesn't

25:28

always but then also look full

25:30

circle first thing we said when you started answering this question

25:33

was Every so often then

25:35

we get the bear. Yeah now We

25:37

are over praising the bear because it's maybe

25:39

the best show of this year and we'll be talking about it again in the

25:42

next month or two But we will continue

25:44

I think to point to it because it is

25:47

what we do this for because it came

25:49

out of nowhere And it's surprised and delighted

25:51

and it brought us to it in a

25:53

way that great art does And

25:55

yeah, it's really it's fun to still

25:58

be plugged in to plugged

26:01

into a medium that has that potential any

26:04

given month. Very well said. Corey

26:07

Standridge asks, what genre of TV show

26:09

would you like to see come back? I loved Teenage

26:12

Bounty Hunters and wish we had more teen shows

26:14

that were more serious than Disney but less crazy

26:17

than Leiforia. I like that.

26:19

I like that. We used to hit that sweet spot with Buffy,

26:21

Dawson's Creek or the OC and that's gone now. So

26:24

I have an answer for this, did you? I did. Okay.

26:26

You go first. Well, my first response

26:28

was in response to what Corey said,

26:31

which is why don't we have teen

26:33

stuff anymore? I feel like that's a good

26:35

hill to not plan a flag on,

26:37

but like start. Where

26:40

was I in London where I was talking about shoegaze? I was in

26:42

Speakers Corner. High Park. Yeah. So I bring

26:44

my box to this island and say like, teen

26:47

shit isn't cool anymore, said the 46-year-old. But

26:52

I do think there's some legitimacy here, which isn't to

26:54

say that there aren't 10 shows that I don't

26:56

even know about because I'm not cool enough to know about them. Yeah, I

26:58

was going to say this summer I turned pretty is

27:01

a pretty big teen sensation right now. I

27:03

guess what I'm saying is it would

27:05

be pretty cool, although

27:08

I understand why it's always hard to have

27:10

a show that said, hey,

27:12

actually, young people aren't just

27:16

using Instagram filters, but on their actual faces

27:19

or just sort of phony fake soap

27:21

operatic posturing. There's always room for that stuff. That's

27:24

fun. But like, do

27:26

you remember the show Betty? A few years

27:28

ago, it was the skateboarding show. Yeah. It was on

27:30

HBO. Phenomenal first season,

27:33

I thought less successful second season

27:35

and then it went away. But

27:37

that was a show about young women in New York that

27:40

felt, again, I am neither a young

27:42

woman nor do I live in New York anymore, but felt

27:45

like, oh, this is a different language

27:47

and it's bringing me into it. And I kind of still

27:49

feel like that's a missed opportunity on TV. I

27:53

understand why. I mean, most young, quote

27:55

unquote, young people shows are made by jaded

27:57

grownups. You know, and those shows

27:59

reflect. more either their youth,

28:02

which is delayed by 10 to 30 years,

28:04

or just their own current aesthetics and

28:07

their fears and resentment

28:09

of actual young people. Oh,

28:11

you know what's good for that reason, though? How to blow up a pipeline. Yes.

28:14

Yeah. That is not the OC. No.

28:17

But I was like, oh, this seems like, again,

28:21

from my... This seems like a kind of closer to

28:23

what it feels like to be this age now.

28:26

Before you pivot to something else that you're missing, Kaidi, would you

28:28

like... As resident youth experts in the

28:30

podcast, do you feel like...

28:33

Yeah, I mean, I would agree with Blow Up a Pipeline.

28:36

I think it accurately captures the

28:38

anxieties a lot of younger people

28:40

feel about. Climate change. Climate

28:42

change, and yeah,

28:43

just how that's all going. It's

28:46

going great, right? I haven't looked in a while. I'm off-sosh.

28:49

You're literally not reading anything.

28:54

And that...

28:56

Yeah,

28:58

I don't know. I guess there is kind of a dearth. You just

29:00

don't really get... The writing

29:02

on Summer I Turn Pretty is just bad,

29:05

and it feels so glossy.

29:11

Then Euphoria kind of just goes so far

29:13

in the other direction. Yeah, they're direction. I guess there's

29:15

just not really a happy medium

29:18

as much anymore. But I mean, I'm also like 27. I'm

29:20

not a teen.

29:21

I think the other part, that's true. I

29:24

wish I was. That was a lowkey sub-tweet with

29:26

me. But I

29:29

think what you're speaking to, Kaia, also points out

29:31

one of the eternal problems with shows

29:34

about young people, which is a stakes problem.

29:36

Because if you make a show that sort of reflects the real

29:39

life day-to-day struggles and what

29:41

matters most to teens,

29:44

hopefully those stakes are not the same as

29:47

they are on Oz or

29:49

other... Although

29:51

you just gave Bill Simmons an idea. I mean, teen...

29:55

Bill Simmons an idea. Casey, listen. Yeah,

29:59

so it's hard to find. those stakes that you could

30:01

just have automatically in a

30:03

medical show or a cop show or whatever? I

30:05

think my answer is a little bit less specific to

30:07

genre and more to formal

30:09

execution, which is one

30:11

of the things I really liked about Pokerface is the combination

30:14

of Mystery of the Week

30:16

with the serialized story. These are things

30:19

that shows like X-Files and Justified

30:22

excel that in years past.

30:25

I miss that a little

30:27

bit. I miss the dual option TV

30:29

show that you can be the

30:35

completist about or you can also be like,

30:38

which one should we watch today? This one sounds interesting.

30:40

I think honestly, what you need

30:42

for that is a library. You need

30:44

to build up episodes and you need to have a

30:46

very long runway. That is so rare

30:48

now because of the increased

30:51

design, like the way people

30:53

get cancelled after two or three seasons by

30:56

networks. People get cancelled. By the way, shows get cancelled

30:58

after two or three seasons by networks and also

31:00

because I think we're

31:02

envisioning things as limited or a

31:05

six to ten episode season and this big movie

31:08

star is going to be in it so they might not be able to start

31:10

it again next fall. That's the thing

31:13

of the past on streamers. I think in network

31:15

it obviously still happens. If

31:18

we could somehow combine some of the personalized

31:22

voice that you find on some streaming shows

31:24

with the bones of some network

31:26

shows, I think that would be really cool. I remember a couple years ago, wasn't

31:29

Sam Esmail working

31:31

on a police procedural or something like that? Yeah, he filmed

31:33

the pilot. It was for, it ended up being for ABC

31:35

and they didn't move forward. I

31:38

had two answers to that more specifically

31:40

than, than I want teens. Old guy wants

31:42

teens on TV. Let's

31:44

move on from that take. One

31:47

I think is almost

31:50

impossible, but I still wish

31:52

it could be. That is the season,

31:55

it's an ongoing show, but

31:58

each season is a specific job

32:01

or project. And what I mean by that is I noticed

32:04

recently that Prison Break is coming back. And

32:07

Prison Break has a built-in problem which is how many prisons

32:09

can these dudes actually break out. But

32:12

the idea of a season-long heist

32:15

or escape or you know

32:17

Italian job, Ocean's Eleven type thing,

32:20

is really appealing to me because I love that sort of storytelling.

32:23

And in a way, if you squint, that

32:25

was the narrative engine of The Wire too, which

32:28

is each year we're going to look at a different part of the city. Oh, the

32:30

idea of like having a soft reset. And

32:32

how it works. The reasons for

32:34

not being able to sustain these are obvious. I

32:36

mean how many incredible

32:38

season sustaining ideas can one creative

32:41

team have? And how can you bank

32:43

on the potential of having multiple years

32:46

to do it? And as soon as you have

32:48

your main characters who

32:51

do crimes, have a successful

32:53

first season, all the pressure is on the creative

32:56

team in almost no time to come up with

32:58

one that equals it. So I understand,

33:01

but I would love that idea. And I think it would age well on

33:03

a streaming service. I will always be bummed

33:05

out that the, and that now

33:07

it seems like a pretty much

33:10

a final verdict because there was some news about this a week

33:12

or two ago, but that the Nick never got to

33:14

explore the studio

33:17

space with the way that Steven Soderbergh had sort of envisioned

33:19

a, they did two seasons of

33:21

the Clive Owen version of it. They were

33:24

going to do two seasons,

33:26

I believe, of a post-World War

33:28

II hospital. Yeah, the original

33:30

idea for the Nick was that it would be,

33:32

the main character was the hospital, and

33:35

that they would revisit the hospital with a

33:37

new cast in a different era. Yeah, and then there

33:39

would be a final fifth season that

33:42

was like five minutes in the future of our

33:44

present, and include cast members

33:46

from both versions of the Nick. And

33:49

I was like, I don't understand why we can't do this. Then

33:52

Barry Jenkins was going to take over, or at

33:54

least try to find a new way to do it, and that he

33:57

and Andre Holland had come up

33:59

with some ideas. by case you boys

34:01

in his recent appearances vad

34:03

said that way third i'm looking for those scripts exist

34:06

as ideas went places i mean it's funny one

34:08

of our remember like right when i

34:10

moved here twenty sixteen we went to

34:12

the ah the emmy for each

34:14

we have any party a durable and we stood awkwardly

34:16

near george rr martin yeah we

34:19

saw adjustments you kazmir like boy were big

34:21

fans of his and he came over to us which is so nice

34:23

and we became friends but also

34:25

at that party i saw

34:27

andre holland and i was like will

34:29

you please give us more nick sir

34:32

him he was like yes i

34:34

promise you hook it's what i want to do

34:36

i it's a bummer with all that good intention

34:40

last thing on this question soon

34:42

i miss i see like this is

34:44

a good thing to mess because i think developing

34:46

executives really misses which

34:48

is i miss a workplace whether

34:51

it's mad men or whether it's the

34:53

officer parks and rec workplaces

34:55

are good good settings

34:57

for television shows and are

35:00

just so basic like right

35:02

down the middle dna like you understand

35:05

what you're getting any want to be there for multiple seasons

35:08

and i would like to do that i'd like to do that

35:10

i think people got dazzled by the budgets and the

35:12

storytelling potential of something

35:14

like a succession which is the

35:16

rooms are sometimes going to be yachts

35:19

and sometimes they're going to be in dubrovnik

35:21

and we can do anything anywhere even

35:23

if it is still you know essentially a stage

35:25

play within those walls you know

35:27

what let's get less emphasis here's my pets right

35:30

now a call me up yeah

35:32

it's called work from home so usaid

35:34

said it's about the one guy at the office who goes in

35:36

every day and it's it's him looking at like

35:38

the same basket of like corn nuts that

35:40

have been sitting out in the brakes subtle

35:42

it so as soon as he does three zutons

35:45

that he goes out is twenty eight days later but

35:47

super boring and it yeah slow

35:49

tv i feel like this was

35:51

pitched in sold in july twenty twenty

35:54

yeah them and didn't said

35:56

make it the arm a couple who do questions here

35:58

to get off the tv stuff

35:59

oh right ozone

36:02

and would love to hear about your fear books of the stature

36:05

of riley machine said haven't heard much music

36:07

talk in a while releases or new discoveries in this

36:10

your that you would highlight also

36:12

thoughts on the currency of music journalism

36:14

or if ya his less that part of your lives

36:16

behind i have been

36:19

a part of my life bind where i do have plenty

36:21

of records from this year that i was you

36:23

make it sound like i have not left that part of my life behind

36:25

and i saw right for pitch work under a pseudonym

36:28

you don't know in our dot head

36:30

out seven point six is like cupcakes i

36:32

mean sometimes it does seem like he and cohen

36:34

is just in setting her taste some of the

36:36

last thirty years that know i hear

36:38

some records i like monsieur going to records

36:41

before books yeah because the bush i've really

36:43

easy answer which is that we don't have yet

36:45

to me that okay music i would say longer

36:47

no particular order spiritual cram on my

36:49

list they saw

36:52

some titled lt just came out

36:54

this past week yeah added

36:56

rules it's i'm michael

36:58

bay or loses singer for skills are crap as just recently

37:01

on been slain talking about rancid ah

37:03

they are fantastic i'd as well how would

37:05

you describe them for a layman it's

37:08

hard to describe them because they do seem like this

37:10

distillation of all the times

37:13

punk and pop have gone

37:15

out for a drink like over the but not

37:17

not a punk but not pop punk right

37:20

like like like when like

37:22

when the class went sued

37:25

to make up but then also made

37:27

a radio single italy wire a punk

37:29

rock that is very melodic it's really

37:31

good the ads really gators ah military

37:34

gone i've i've a spouse and this podcast

37:36

before mil spec mood

37:39

just put out a record com marathon

37:41

or recently as all of that more on them melodic

37:43

hardcore it and of things and

37:46

in i talked about hotline tnt earlier which

37:48

is kind of this huge a pop thing

37:50

and i'm i also really

37:52

like magnitude which is more

37:54

more traditional harper hides his

37:57

which is ah kind of like

38:00

for me to echo in the bunnymen and

38:02

are empty country which were empty country

38:04

sure you got meet this you and bride raftery

38:06

turned me onto this group says his i'd i'd

38:09

joseph decks you know who

38:11

used to play guitar and saying and

38:14

at a rate those songs for symbols

38:16

he guitars and similar

38:18

guitars is like one of my favorite

38:20

bands of the last nine or ten or fifteen

38:22

years this is is sort of more

38:25

solo project and it's much more

38:27

singer songwriter he i guess would

38:30

be the way to describe it but it's still very

38:32

expensive and in this record particularly

38:34

empty country to is

38:36

pretty cinematic at times and he has become

38:40

one of those sort of my favorite

38:42

lyric writers and it's got

38:44

this really keen eye for detail and is

38:46

influenced inspired by a lot of fiction

38:49

writers the andean i love like joy williams

38:51

ah richard forward raymond

38:54

carver lots of lots of writer so i gotta

38:56

know i just i really love this i think if you

39:00

and mean there's parts of it to remind me of tom petty years

39:02

bruce springsteen is parts of the remind me of elliott

39:04

smith there's parts of it that remind

39:06

me of like philadelphia and iraq

39:08

like in the war on drugs kurt vile zone

39:10

and but there's also this like alex t fans

39:12

will pray like this record but there's also kind

39:15

of like expansive expository

39:17

sing talking proclaiming vibe that reminds

39:20

me a little bit of them a

39:22

little lou reed a little bit rubber force or from the go

39:24

betweens just like there's there's a there's

39:26

a like a wholly and important

39:28

performance parts with humor so

39:30

i just i'm loving it i think it's a great

39:32

record go for it i know i'm in a

39:35

long time with there's no i like to put up play was in december

39:38

of favorite stuff so i'm not a good it's of the talking about

39:40

music is talking about me as i know but

39:42

i'm and people should know that when

39:44

we're not texting about sort

39:47

of you sports adjutant recently we just

39:49

been like we've been digging in the crates

39:51

then suddenly each other stuff i

39:53

try atrocities instagram silent recently

39:56

and i also like of get a lot about one thing

39:59

for when you I wasn't bragging about his fantasy

40:01

team on Sunday. We're

40:03

talking about why Chili Crisp is overused.

40:06

You were like, hey, how'd that feel? I sent you a reel the other

40:08

day on DM. What'd you think about that?

40:11

And I told you, I thought about it. I wrote back LMAO.

40:13

It's funny. I don't know. I wasn't gonna

40:16

open up a new channel. Last night I

40:18

texted you a whole Instagram. I was

40:20

like, damn, this thing is funny. Oh, I was asleep. It

40:23

said it to you at 8.30. Okay.

40:26

Kaya is a guy who basically

40:28

goes to El Porto Beach and

40:31

narrates like, what's up, fuckers?

40:34

This is the worst beach in California. That's

40:39

good. Yeah. Speaking of

40:41

expository declarative things, that's

40:43

the kind of YouTube energy you like, or I've noticed.

40:46

You like people who are just like, this

40:49

is the best curry fries in Dublin.

40:52

This beach is shit. You just like

40:54

to have people tell you what's up. Yeah,

40:57

I'm not going to El Porto or to Dublin to eat

40:59

curry, but it's fun to have that information.

41:01

You respond. This

41:03

is an interesting psychological examination of you because

41:06

there's a part of you, a large part of you, that listeners

41:08

will recognize, which is in a zombie apocalypse,

41:11

you are inevitably going to be the leader of some

41:13

town. Yeah. Which

41:15

way we break is a little bit difficult

41:17

to determine. But you also do seem

41:20

to like being told what to do when it comes time

41:22

to like what you should eat out of

41:24

a Dutch oven, if an English lady is telling

41:27

you to eat it. You know what I mean? Like

41:30

there are two genders, I guess. Yeah. And

41:32

one is this bag bowl. I'm

41:35

here a long day when I just can't be bothered.

41:37

Just can't be bothered. I'm going

41:39

to just name some bands that I like a lot this year. You

41:42

mentioned a couple of them, Feeble, Little Horse,

41:44

The Tubs, Rap Boys. People

41:47

like Melodic Indie Rock, should listen to that Rap Boys record.

41:49

It's really beautiful. Remember

41:51

the other week when you were like, have you ever heard of Super

41:54

Heaven? They're the biggest band, Shugay's

41:56

band. Well, they have like, yes, yes. And

41:59

I was like, no. Not only have I not heard of them, I've not heard

42:01

of the guy's new band, Web Wing, but they

42:04

rule. It's fun discovering

42:06

things. Squirrel Flower, they like

42:08

the DJ Sabrina, the teenage DJ record. You

42:10

wouldn't like that. Is that Hyper Pop? Yeah.

42:13

It's like four hours of mashed

42:16

up early 2000s pop, but with Julia Louis-Dreyfus

42:18

samples. Did you like

42:20

Slay Bells? I think

42:23

Slay Bells have made six of the

42:25

best songs of the last 20 years, but

42:27

they have made 400 songs. Okay.

42:30

They are, for me, very indicative of how

42:32

I started listening to music when Spotify

42:34

came along because pre-Spotify,

42:38

you and I would be like, here is an LP that

42:40

I enjoy. Track eight is of particular

42:43

interest, but it's really worth it only if you listen to the

42:45

first seven tracks. Now I'm like, I

42:47

love this band based on three minutes and 30

42:49

seconds and the rest is shit. Maybe

42:53

we're the problem. Yeah. Maybe

42:56

we're the problem. Give me your books. Remember

42:58

the other week when you were like, you spotted me

43:01

just sipping a cortado in the late

43:03

morning sun? I do remember this. I was like, this guy's not

43:06

stressed out enough. That

43:11

was before we had a speaker of the house

43:13

who monitors the same quarantine. I

43:15

think I was trying. I was like in my

43:17

mind that day I was like, I'm trying to keep all the timelines

43:20

of low keys separated. Yeah. I

43:22

was reading an Italian book from 1973 that a

43:24

loyal listener identified. It's called Last Summer

43:26

in the City by Gianfranco Caligari. Great

43:29

book. I've also speaking of speaking

43:31

of psychological investigations into

43:33

the two of us. This has been a year where

43:36

I've been reading like great, great

43:38

novels of suburban malaise

43:42

of the 20th century. Like I read just really

43:44

powered through Revolutionary Road. Yeah.

43:47

Did you? Yeah. How does that feel? You

43:49

know, it's not it's not like a lot of lols.

43:51

Yeah. But that's an amazing book. And

43:54

have you ever read Appointment at Samara by John O'Hara?

43:56

I haven't. That's also real good. One

43:59

of the most interesting things. about it. It's set in prohibition

44:01

and it's set in a fictional Pots

44:03

Town, Pennsylvania, which seems to be like

44:06

a hotbed of culture and Cadillac

44:08

and people just like dancing till five in the morning

44:11

while drinking bathtub gin. Pots

44:13

Town. I can't

44:15

say that I've ever been to Pots Town. I

44:17

feel like you've been to Pots Town if you haven't been to Pots Town. Maybe

44:19

I played like a travel baseball game.

44:21

Here we go. They have

44:24

a plaque. Chris blocked

44:26

the plate here. He's full of zagriples.

44:29

He just moved the runners right here.

44:32

Peter Hanke's short letter, Long Farewell. I

44:34

just read. When people are like, Andy

44:36

doesn't like TV anymore, he doesn't watch any of it. So because

44:39

you're reading. Yeah. I'm reading like reading

44:42

about Pots Town. You ever grab some stuff? Chris,

44:45

just a couple of guys here just talking sports and

44:47

New York Review of Books reissue. You

44:49

ever pick up one of those New York Review of Books reissues and

44:52

I'm like, I never heard of this guy, but it says he won the Nobel Prize.

44:54

Yeah. That's how I found Patrick Modiano, one of my favorite

44:56

writers. So I was like, cool. I'll read this short letter,

44:58

Long Farewell. It's pretty weird book about a German

45:01

guy staying in hotels on the East Coast in the 70s and

45:03

kind of like staring out the window and jayoing a

45:05

lot. Uh-huh. Great. But then

45:08

I was like, oh, I'd like to know more about this writer. And

45:10

the first hit is a magazine article being

45:13

like the problematic Bosnian politics

45:15

of Peter Hanke. It was just like when

45:18

he wasn't writing novels, he was going to slow it

45:20

on Melissa Vich's trial and being like, I stand

45:22

with you always, my brother.

45:24

That's a wild thing. Yeah.

45:26

Yeah. You got to watch out for this European guy.

45:28

They really they're politically committed. They

45:30

surprise you. For me, I've been

45:32

in a prison of my own design with Len

45:34

Dighton for most of the year. So I,

45:38

I highly recommend City of Gold and Mameesta,

45:40

which are to, to kind of like, I

45:43

would say, Steve Gold, if you liked Rokuros,

45:46

City of Gold is essentially the novel of Rokuros.

45:49

And, uh, for Mameesta, that

45:51

is about a revolution happening in

45:53

a Latin American country. I have,

45:55

if you're talking Dighton, can I just make one more plug

45:57

for the game set and matchbook?

45:59

Mm-hmm.

46:01

Like he's one of the great in addition to being just one of the

46:03

great And we popular fiction

46:05

right not my favorite diet. That's interesting Yeah,

46:08

I know why but I've never been like the Bernard

46:10

Samson books have not really turned me on I went off

46:13

on those if you like spy fiction, these are not

46:15

you know, there's like another trilogy. Oh, I've read

46:18

I've read three Trilogies about Bernard

46:20

Samurin by Len Dighton. I finally

46:23

stopped when I got to the tenth book Winter

46:25

the story of a German family. It's

46:27

like 900 pages about Bernard

46:29

Samson's wife's ancestors That

46:32

was enough for me, but but the game set match

46:34

trilogy if you've read lakare It is not

46:36

lakare, but it is it'll it'll hit similar

46:39

pleasure centers. All right, there's a guy I want

46:41

to just shout out who I'm gonna

46:43

butcher the name. It's Eurus, you're a bit

46:46

Jerjovich, what did he think about the most

46:48

of it? He wrote two novels

46:51

about Vietnam red flags and

46:53

play the Red Queen, which is this posthumous

46:55

novel I think one was written

46:57

in like the early 2000s. The other was like 2010 or 11 and They

47:02

are basically like espionage Mysteries

47:05

set during the early 60s in

47:07

the Vietnam War which I've been enjoying those

47:09

books quite a bit I'm sorry

47:11

for mispronouncing his name, which I probably did and

47:14

then Zach Baron recently Turned me on

47:16

to this book called devil makes

47:18

three by Ben Fountain who wrote

47:20

Billy Lynn's halftime walk Which

47:22

I just started and that's about Haiti. So

47:24

it was that he didn't drop that in the sports thread Can

47:28

we just while we're talking about books this does tie back

47:30

into TV that there was you know I'm

47:34

so excited That

47:37

I'm always learning new things about you because you have so much free

47:39

time Yeah, casually refer to things that you do. I

47:41

got you back that you learned something about me the other

47:44

day Which is when you learned that I've read

47:46

every book by Bred Easton Ellis. Oh, yeah, that

47:48

was really weird You were like you sent me a picture

47:50

of the shards. Yeah, and you were like, it's

47:53

on baby. I'm back I was like

47:55

why I was like 1983. Let's go Let's

47:58

do it again You haven't

48:00

gone in his podcast. I haven't been invited.

48:03

Okay. I only go on

48:05

V pre watch podcast Okay, tell me

48:07

about that experience. How was it? Let me just say

48:09

on the the shards topic I

48:12

think I may have I may be tapped out. What

48:14

do you mean? It's not good. Um You

48:17

do you ever notice this like when you read writers

48:19

especially like established writers that you can

48:22

there's a chance that maybe they weren't Super edited When

48:25

the same word appears three times in a paragraph

48:27

or like the same information is given you to

48:29

you twice in a chapter and when

48:32

that information is The

48:34

I believe at this point fourth slightly fictionalized

48:36

retelling of his high school years. I

48:38

think I tapped out. Okay, that said Luca

48:41

Guadagino the great filmmaker is adapting

48:44

the shards for HBO. Is he really and

48:46

I am all the way I'm

48:48

thrilled thrilled thrilled about that. But

48:50

I just feel like I'm curious

48:53

if the The other like

48:55

rules of attraction heads are finding more

48:57

in the shards than I did. How was my experience

49:00

on another podcast? Yeah I reached that yeah, you

49:02

know, it was it. I felt really welcomed, you

49:04

know, I felt like free to be my lavishing you

49:06

with breeze That's true. Yeah, that's always

49:08

a good way to start Matt Walsh and it's

49:10

called second in command I was I had a great time

49:13

with those guys I felt I felt really free to be

49:15

myself, you know in a way that was unfamiliar

49:18

You also didn't have to watch anything for that podcast It

49:20

was so great because I guess they'll pivot

49:22

again But on that podcast Matt Walsh

49:24

and and our buddy Tim Simon's rewatch

49:28

The show they were on VEEP but during the sag

49:30

strike they couldn't promote VEEP So

49:32

their podcast pivoted to a pretty groundbreaking Format

49:35

where they were read listening

49:37

to their own podcast So all

49:40

I had to do to hear

49:42

one podcast episode about an episode of VEEP

49:44

that I hadn't seen since You guys cut away

49:46

from from parent corner I

49:52

Did I skipped a couple parent corners to find

49:54

time to do it and I'm here to

49:56

tell you there is Only a small

49:58

amount of truth to the fact that you weren't invited

50:01

because you didn't have Tim on the black hat

50:03

rewatchables. I assume that that's

50:05

the case, even if he says it's not.

50:08

I noticed that that was like, it was a very podcast,

50:10

studio-y vibe, like you guys were drinking liquid

50:12

death. It was on, I was not prepared for

50:14

it to be on camera. I'm not used to that. I

50:16

know, you're a little bit touchy about that. Well,

50:19

I have- I just assume I'm always on camera, you

50:21

know, like just in terms of surveillance. I have

50:23

it in my contract that I get, I get HMU.

50:26

What is that? Hair makeup. I

50:29

knew, I knew. She's nothing. She

50:31

knew. You

50:33

give me the next question here in the document that you'd like

50:35

to hit on. This is great because I think you-

50:38

that was a test to see if I have the document. I know you do.

50:40

Which I do. Oh,

50:43

I thought this- thank you for giving me this one. I love this one.

50:45

This is a question from Steven

50:47

Lurie, had Lurie the real. Kind

50:50

of Rob Lurie agrees with that. A

50:53

lost part of the streaming era is the shot

50:55

and chaser of TV. This is a brilliant

50:57

concept. The heavy one hour drama

51:00

followed by a 30 minute comedy. But

51:02

most algorithms will suggest something similar

51:05

to what you just watched, not opposite for what

51:07

you should watch next. Yes, there's no sense of programming. I

51:09

love this point. So what the question

51:11

is, what's your iconic shot plus chaser? And

51:14

shouldn't streamers try these combos? Let me

51:16

say, streamers should try these combos.

51:19

That is so wild to me. And it's such

51:21

a great point that when you finish watching 58

51:24

minutes of post-apocalyptic

51:26

whatever, you don't want to watch 57 more

51:28

minutes of post-apocalyptic whatever. And

51:30

yet, that is just what most

51:33

streamers would suggest for you. Well, what they want

51:35

is for you to start the next episode of the thing you're watching,

51:38

right? Yeah, but there's the long bar underneath

51:40

some that's like you might also like the concept. I

51:43

think that I've gotten-

51:45

I've started thinking more and more about the UX of

51:47

these things. I love the pivot for you. The VR

51:49

UX corner. This is so great. The other day I was

51:52

on Macs and I was looking

51:54

for Hitchcock movies. Okay. Because I was

51:56

thinking about David Fincher, which Sean and

51:58

I have been talking about.

54:00

frustrating it is that you can't search a filmmaker

54:02

on some of these sites. It's not easily grouped together.

54:04

Or even like a TV writer or whatever,

54:07

you know, it doesn't have to be one of the other. I

54:10

think that there is a reading of that that is

54:12

nefarious, but I think the real reading of it is

54:14

actually just very corporate

54:16

and bottom line, which is to

54:18

say content ebbs

54:21

and flows on these services, you know, based

54:23

on licensing agreements. Um, famously

54:26

like the Harry Potter's movie, Harry Potter

54:28

movie, like movies, they switch from peacock

54:30

to max every 18 months, like the,

54:33

like some sort of trophy in a longstanding college

54:35

rivalry. It's just bizarre. So

54:38

I think the goal for these services

54:40

are internally

54:41

is that

54:42

they want you to think of them as the place

54:44

where you can find a lot of this kind of

54:46

stuff, but they want to diminish the

54:48

specificity of it because if you begin

54:50

to think of it as the place where you can find Alfred Hitchcock

54:52

movies, well there might be a time when they don't have them anymore. And

54:55

then that said,

54:57

what they are doing with

54:59

groupings is hideous. I

55:02

mean, it is so, do you

55:04

mind me infringing on your UX corner? No, go

55:06

ahead. I logged

55:08

onto the max service recently as well and decided

55:11

to just scroll down. And

55:13

one thing that they've done, which is absolutely

55:16

boneheaded was that on HBO max

55:18

there were just, there were tiles

55:21

easily accessible. There were like Miyazaki movies,

55:23

Studio Ghibli movies, DC, TCM.

55:27

To find the thing that Turner classic movies

55:29

now is almost impossible. They've

55:32

simplified it to the point of abstraction where there's just stuff.

55:35

And instead of having like a thing that I actually

55:37

know I want to look for or self-select into

55:39

a more limited choice of things I might like, you

55:41

have categories. I mean, I think they're probably different for everyone,

55:44

but heroes on their own terms

55:46

was one category that it suggested for me. And

55:49

instead of it just being a portrait of myself, do

55:53

you want to know what the first three movies in heroes on

55:55

their own terms? I sure as fuck could do. American

55:57

sniper. Suicide

56:01

Squad and Joker.

56:05

So,

56:06

Casey, if you're still listening to this episode, someone

56:09

at your company thinks I've been red-pilled. Yeah, right.

56:12

I guess. I did send this to

56:14

you. Speaking of texts that didn't get replies or

56:16

even an LMAO, the

56:18

first movie suggested under the

56:20

heading, Dynamic Duos was

56:23

White Chicks. Well,

56:26

you work with the team you got. You know what I mean? It's

56:28

just like, White Chicks is

56:30

kind of like throwing Nick Batoom out there instead

56:33

of James Harden. It's just like that's when he came back in the

56:35

train. I would much rather have

56:37

Nick Batoom with James Harden, but also

56:39

that's a terrible analogy because

56:42

Nick Batoom is a complimentary piece as opposed

56:44

to White Chicks. I'm just saying that's what's in their library.

56:46

You know what I mean? But I bet there's

56:48

other Dynamic Duos in the Max library

56:50

that they probably could have picked, but some people like White

56:52

Chicks. After the Thrones, for example. That's in

56:54

the library. Casey, holler at us. That's

56:57

in the Raiders of the Lost Ark warehouse.

57:00

Genuinely, genuinely, genuinely.

57:03

When HBO Max launched, the conversation

57:05

around it was partly, oh, here

57:08

are the HBO shows, but that wasn't the conversation

57:10

because we knew how to find HBO shows. The conversation

57:12

was, wow, this is a pretty deep

57:14

bench of content with all of these

57:17

Turner movies and all this other stuff. It

57:19

seems almost willfully obtuse

57:22

that Max's new brand is a big

57:24

bucket of shit. That is

57:26

just such a weird way to present something that

57:28

still has good content, and

57:31

that is what they're putting forward. We're clearly,

57:33

if you guys think that

57:35

we're done with podcasting, we've only just

57:38

begun to get into the wild and

57:40

rangy world of UX. I

57:43

think we have time. Oh, we didn't answer the question. Oh, yeah,

57:45

this is easy for me. It's 2015 when they

57:47

used to go Thrones V on HBO. Yeah.

57:52

That's shot-chaser. Yeah. I think it was the

57:54

Thrones, but just that, there were two models,

57:58

probably the two most celebrated. networks

58:01

for being programmers for being curators

58:04

were the best at this and it was Sunday

58:06

nights on HBO, which often had

58:09

the drama of the moment with the comedy of the

58:11

moment and they cycled through Sometimes

58:13

it was VEEP. Sometimes it's Kirby enthusiasm girls

58:16

girls was in that slot for a while or

58:20

NBC Thursday nights which reversed it

58:22

and it was comedy comedy comedy comedy the

58:25

best drama on TV, right? So that

58:27

classic and the 830 and

58:29

930s were always a little bit in flux but those

58:31

years when you had Yeah,

58:34

I mean from when we were growing up and you had friends

58:37

and ER to later when

58:40

you had the office and

58:42

wreck and Always a Thursday night

58:44

drama back. I just walked myself into that Andy

58:50

back over here Who

58:52

is it? What was the top one with like Michael Beach? It was

58:54

just like it was about ambulance

58:56

drivers That was on Thursdays

58:59

So I'm gonna go with Thrones and V. Yeah probably

59:02

the all-timer, um Look, we

59:04

got time for about one more I think and It's

59:08

what everybody wants to know has called

59:10

third watch buddy third watch This

59:12

is from Doris Levine has Andy caught up

59:14

on the new season of bluey. If so thoughts

59:16

on the return of you know, unicourse You

59:21

like a unicorn that's also a horse. I thought that that was

59:23

already in in play you

59:26

play inlet in that it's self-evident

59:31

Longtime watchers of bluey will know that that

59:33

unicourse is a puppet character

59:36

that the father bandit performs

59:39

that has a Has a catchphrase

59:42

has a very annoying catchphrase. What is it? And

59:45

why should I care? That's it? That's

59:48

that's your catchphrase literally

59:50

my motto. That's my yearbook. Oh

59:52

my god your daughter say that uh They

59:54

love it. They look like if you're like, hey, can you clean

59:57

up your room? It really would mean a lot to me

59:59

No, they used to

59:59

just glare at me and stomp out. They don't

1:00:02

need a catchphrase. They are pure

1:00:04

vibes. Also, they

1:00:06

were in solidarity with the striking

1:00:08

writers. They weren't doing dialogue. Hey, so what

1:00:11

happens if they grow out of Bluey

1:00:13

and you're still into it? This is actually- Will

1:00:16

you be watching Bluey on your own? It's

1:00:18

the inverse of what happened. To answer the

1:00:20

question, I have not seen the

1:00:22

new unicourse episode, and I've only seen a few

1:00:25

of the recently they put up the back half

1:00:27

of the new season, because the children

1:00:30

have become self-aware and they just watched

1:00:32

them all themselves as soon as they came

1:00:34

out. And they left you behind? Yes,

1:00:37

and it's kind of what happened when I was reading Harry Potter

1:00:39

to my older daughter. Like they just raced past

1:00:41

me. So they are always willing

1:00:43

to watch more television. That is not an issue, but they

1:00:45

do not stand on ceremony and wait for

1:00:47

me anymore. So I'm behind. I'm not yet

1:00:49

that guy watching Bluey. Will you and your daughters be watching

1:00:52

the curse? Yes.

1:00:55

A couple things on that. They are

1:00:57

my staunchest defenders in

1:01:00

the I don't actually look like Nathan Fielder

1:01:03

sweepstakes. They do

1:01:06

not like that comparison.

1:01:07

Okay.

1:01:08

That said, as long time listeners know,

1:01:10

my younger daughter loved it

1:01:13

when I happily started to post her picture

1:01:15

with a guy only discovered

1:01:17

that he was- He thought he was taking a picture with Nathan Fielder.

1:01:20

She loved that. Yeah. But

1:01:22

otherwise, no, they're on my team. We have a very exciting

1:01:24

next couple of weeks. I forgot to mention that we

1:01:26

also have Fargo and Slow Horse is coming back.

1:01:29

So we have quite a full dance card.

1:01:31

There was one last

1:01:34

question here from Allison. If I've

1:01:36

been slacking on my watching lately, what's a good gateway

1:01:38

show from the past few months to reawaken my

1:01:40

TV watching brain? I didn't prep

1:01:43

you for this. No. But I was kind of

1:01:45

curious whether you had an answer

1:01:47

off the top of your head. The new

1:01:49

season of Bluey? Yeah. Do you not want that? Would

1:01:51

you say nada? Would you say drops

1:01:53

of God? Would you say- The

1:01:56

reason why- The two lessons of chemistry? The

1:01:59

reason- why this is a challenge is

1:02:03

this is built into this

1:02:05

question and answer is the sort

1:02:07

of the black

1:02:10

hole at the center of the pod for the last few weeks is

1:02:12

that I can't point to a show that

1:02:16

I have confidence will reignite

1:02:18

someone's love for the medium at the moment. I

1:02:21

have recommended everything you just mentioned,

1:02:23

the gold, nada particularly, but the

1:02:26

gold but that's not the

1:02:28

same as it was last summer when we were like, hey,

1:02:31

check out the bear or even, you know, I have

1:02:33

when, you know, not

1:02:35

as super plugged in people have asked me for show and I say

1:02:38

reservation dogs. Yeah, and they're delighted,

1:02:40

right? Just delighted. And I feel confident

1:02:43

that that is a safe recommendation for

1:02:45

people because what I think when they're asking for is

1:02:47

like, remind me how exciting this medium

1:02:50

can be, you know, give me something that I'm not,

1:02:52

that doesn't fall easily

1:02:54

into something that I already assume. And I don't,

1:02:57

what would your answer be? I don't have a single show at

1:02:59

this moment. We have plenty in the library.

1:03:02

Yeah, I think reservation dogs,

1:03:04

if you haven't seen it is a great,

1:03:07

you can watch those three seasons pretty easily.

1:03:10

I think that yeah, I think reservation

1:03:12

dogs is a remarkably evergreen

1:03:15

recommendation for people, because almost

1:03:18

everyone who encounters it falls in love with it. And

1:03:20

then after that, I think I would probably go with, I would

1:03:23

probably go with the gold. I think the gold is

1:03:25

kind of like a very

1:03:28

modern kind of like it's a British

1:03:30

show, but it's on this American streaming

1:03:32

service. It tells a serialized

1:03:35

story, but has like thrills that go

1:03:38

almost episodically. It's a mystery,

1:03:40

but not really. It's funny, but

1:03:42

it's dramatic. I mean, I think that the gold is also

1:03:45

like not a huge time investment.

1:03:47

It's like you could do that in a couple of weeks. Yeah,

1:03:49

but not to start off a whole other tangent,

1:03:51

but when I've mentioned that to people, they

1:03:53

say, what is it on? And I say paramount and they say, oh, I'm

1:03:55

not that hasn't made my that's

1:03:58

not on my Well, you're obviously not talking to enough Taylor.

1:04:00

or Sheridan shows fans in your daily place.

1:04:02

I've had to lose some friends over the last few

1:04:04

months and years. So the conversation,

1:04:07

I'm worried at Thanksgiving. The conversation is gonna

1:04:09

be all about law and fast reads. Not

1:04:12

at dinner, no Sheridan

1:04:14

at dinner. Thank you to Kaya for producing us. Thank

1:04:16

you to everybody for listening, for writing in questions.

1:04:18

I decided to make that a little bit more general and

1:04:21

then a non-TV because we'll be doing so much TV

1:04:23

on Monday. That's

1:04:25

just professional. Yeah. That medium that

1:04:27

you truly love, podcasting. We will be back

1:04:29

on Monday with The Curse and Loki and Rob Harvilla.

1:04:32

Hope everybody has a great weekend, Andy. Happy 804

1:04:34

episodes. Here's

1:04:37

to 804 more.