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0:30

Hey Bob, how are you doing? Pretty

0:32

good, pretty good. Glad to hear that.

0:35

This is Robert Durst on a prison phone call.

0:37

It's 2001. He's been

0:39

arrested for the murder and dismemberment

0:41

of his neighbor Morris Black. And

0:44

he's reaching out to his longtime

0:46

friend and sometime lawyer Stuart Altman.

0:48

Because Bob needs some help. I

0:50

am interested in Belize. Without

0:52

mentioning my name, tell if

0:55

you represent somebody who is

0:57

an economic citizen of Belize.

1:00

Economic citizen, I haven't heard that term

1:02

before. Bob wants to

1:05

put some money offshore, but Stuart is wild

1:07

about the idea. No, but

1:09

this thing with Belize, that

1:11

scares me about having

1:13

me get involved with it. You

1:15

know what I'm saying? You don't want to do it, don't

1:18

do it. It's something he

1:20

says that you should have your people

1:22

do directly. Like you were, I mean

1:24

Deborah, called them directly. A

1:28

few days later, Bob brings this up with

1:30

his wife, Deborah Sheridan. The

1:33

man's name from Belize, did you ever

1:35

call him? No, I'm not doing that. No, I'm not

1:37

touching it. Bob explained to Debbie that

1:39

he'd spoken to numerous people about this. And

1:41

no one wanted anything to do with it.

1:44

Well, it says something, doesn't it? No,

1:48

it says I haven't reached the right

1:50

people yet. Thank

1:59

you. Hi,

2:03

I'm Zach Storupanier, one of the filmmakers

2:05

behind HBO's The Jinx. Welcome

2:07

back to the official Jinx podcast, a

2:10

show where we take you behind the

2:13

scenes of Andrew Jarecki's documentary series that

2:15

became a real-life murder investigation. Chapter

2:20

10, The Unluckiest Man in the World, was just

2:22

released on Max. The

2:24

prosecution expected Robert Durst's murder trial

2:26

would hinge on handwriting, but that

2:29

changed after a bombshell witness placed

2:31

Bob in LA during Susan Berman's

2:33

murder. Today on

2:35

the podcast, we unpack Bob's relationship with

2:37

his oldest friend, the Altman's, and we

2:39

go behind the scenes on Emily Altman's

2:42

testimony, because the next day, she

2:44

actually tried to walk it all back. Can

2:49

people hear, can they hear what we're saying out there? Yeah. Can

2:52

you guys hear what we're saying? After

2:54

Andrew and I settled into the studio, we

2:56

started talking through Bob Durst and Stuart Altman's

2:59

longtime friendship. Bob

3:01

became friends with Stuart when they were in

3:03

school, and obviously Stuart was

3:05

a charming guy and was an

3:07

athlete, and Bob was

3:10

sort of, I think, relatively undistinguished.

3:13

The only thing I really know Bob did in

3:15

high school was he was like a camp counselor

3:17

for a while, and I knew somebody. That was

3:19

one of the kids that he was the counselor

3:21

for, and I think they said he

3:23

was kind of maybe not the most responsible camp

3:25

counselor. You could imagine him being, you want me

3:27

to roll those joints for you, kid? Stuart

3:32

and Bob were knocking around New York, and

3:35

I guess Stuart had

3:37

run across Kathy somehow, and he

3:39

thought, oh, this girl's attractive and

3:41

impressionable, and she could probably be

3:43

a good person for me

3:46

to introduce my buddy Bob to. Stuart

3:49

was at a party, and Kathy comes

3:51

with her friend, Cheryl

3:55

Katrinbone. My

4:00

dad's cousins and his office where we

4:02

both worked, she actually trained

4:04

me. Cheryl Catrambone

4:07

met Kathy Durst when they were

4:09

both teenagers working as dental hygienists.

4:11

Here she is talking with Andrew in an unreleased

4:14

interview for part one of the Jinx. So

4:17

how old were you guys when you first looked at these?

4:19

So when we first moved into the city, Kathy had

4:21

turned 19 in June and I was turning 18 in

4:23

August. Cheryl

4:27

and Kathy settled into their small apartment

4:30

in Midtown Manhattan and they

4:32

started meeting their neighbors. One of them

4:34

was Stuart Altman. Stuart

4:37

lives in our building. He lived

4:39

one or two floors up. You

4:41

know, he was young and good

4:44

looking and friendly and like on the way

4:46

up like he'd knock on the door. So

4:48

like, are you guys home? You know, going

4:51

upstairs, come upstairs if you want. So he was really

4:53

our only friend in the building and

4:56

he introduced me one day to

4:59

Bobby. Here's

5:03

Bob telling Andrew his side of the story

5:05

in an outtake from their first interview. I

5:08

first met Kathy at a party at

5:11

my friend's Stuart Altman program. Stuart's

5:14

very outgoing. Yeah,

5:16

he came to the party with these two

5:19

ladies. And then you had your sort of

5:21

first date? Yes,

5:23

two days later we went out. And

5:26

did the relationship sort of pick up

5:29

fairly quickly? Yes, yes, yes. We went

5:31

after dinner, went home and made love.

5:34

And the first date? Well, we'd

5:36

had whatever you want to call it.

5:40

When we met, and then when we were

5:42

met at the party, we hung out together

5:44

all the time. Bob

5:48

says that he and Kathy hit it off. Cheryl,

5:51

on the other hand, was not impressed.

5:54

There was just something about him that made my skin curl. It's

5:57

just like, you know, when your hair just stands up. I

6:08

think similarly when

6:11

they're at UCLA Stewart was visiting Bob

6:13

the weekend he met Susan. I

6:16

invited friends of mine out from back

6:18

here, Stuart Altman and his brother. Bob

6:21

was in grad school at UCLA and Stuart would

6:23

come out from time to time to visit. And

6:26

the place that people would go was

6:29

to Dykstra dormitory. Everybody goes

6:31

to the big pool in the

6:34

afternoon and I

6:37

saw this girl wearing a

6:39

white outfit and a white

6:42

cap and black

6:44

hair and I went over and started talking to

6:46

her. And I was Susan

6:48

Berman. So

6:52

Stuart Altman was with Bob when he met

6:54

both Kathy McCormick and Susan Berman. He's right

6:56

in the middle of this story. So

6:59

obviously Andrew tried to interview him. Hey

7:02

Stuart. Yeah it's Andrew

7:05

Turkey. Hello Andrew.

7:07

How are you? Okay what's up?

7:10

So I wanted to touch base because I've been,

7:12

you know, I was trying to schedule a time

7:14

to come and see you guys and talk about

7:16

Bob. Right now I just can't even think about

7:18

doing it. They

7:22

must have known that Bob was

7:24

pushing his luck by being in

7:27

a whole show about Bob. You

7:30

know the things that they had done

7:32

before were like these kind of news

7:34

magazine-y shows like 48 Hours. Hey

7:37

Andrew, when I did that thing for 48

7:39

Hours I did it really because Bob was

7:42

in jail and we

7:44

tried to make a better image for him. You'll

7:47

never get Bob Durst's old friends,

7:49

the Altmans, to believe Durst is

7:51

capable of murder. He's just

7:54

a regular guy who happens to have a

7:56

lot of money and I don't

7:58

see why people should hold that against him. Would

8:00

you describe Bob as one of your best friends? Yes,

8:03

I would. I've known him longer than

8:05

anybody else around. That's for sure. When

8:11

I contacted them and they knew that I'd been

8:13

working for a long time on a story about

8:15

Bob and that I wanted to go

8:18

to their house or their law office and

8:20

have a real conversation with them, I

8:22

think they got cold feet. This

8:25

is the project you're doing I just want to do

8:27

right now. John

8:32

Lewin and the prosecution team also had a hard

8:34

time getting Stewart to talk. After

8:36

Bob's arrest in 2015, Bob's lawyers tried

8:39

to keep the Altmans from testifying. They

8:42

all say, well, Stewart was

8:44

obviously Bob's attorney and therefore

8:46

their conversation should be protected.

8:48

And I think Judge

8:50

Wyndham's attitude is like, well, if they're

8:52

talking about stuff that's not legal stuff,

8:55

like, I can't give that to you, you know. You can

8:57

say that if they were talking about Bob's strategy of how

9:00

to get out of trouble or something like that, that would

9:02

be fair. And I think

9:04

it's such a great illustration of that, that

9:06

they're like pounding through the TV

9:08

guide, trying to figure out what Bob

9:10

should watch on the jailhouse TV. Eight

9:14

o'clock on Channel 2, Survivor.

9:17

Nine o'clock CSI, which is

9:19

crime scene investigation. I like that.

9:22

I do too. Ten o'clock, the

9:24

agency. So I like that too. Okay.

9:27

Seven, whose line is it anyway and who

9:29

wants to be a millionaire? Hate it. Okay.

9:33

He likes the crime show. He likes

9:36

CSI. And he hates who wants to

9:38

be a millionaire. He doesn't like comedy.

9:43

I also love the way Stewart was like, I don't like that.

9:45

He's like, I don't like it. You don't like it. I don't

9:47

like that. USA.

9:50

USA is Sean Connery and The Rock.

9:54

Oh, the guys in my cell love that. We

9:56

lamp 90. I don't want to see it. Ultimately,

10:02

Stewart would be called to testify,

10:05

and it would get pretty spicy between

10:07

him and prosecutor John Lewin. Here's

10:10

some more of the back and forths not featured in the

10:12

TV show. Did you offer to

10:14

do anything to try to find Kathy? No. Why?

10:18

I didn't want to. Why

10:20

was that? I

10:23

didn't think it would help. If there was something I

10:25

thought that you needed, I could help with. You're

10:29

a lawyer who has connections and

10:31

experience in criminal matters, even at

10:33

that point in time.

10:36

And you're telling me you didn't say to Bob,

10:38

listen, Bob, what can I do to help?

10:41

What can we do to try to

10:43

find Kathy? Was

10:45

Bob, did he sound concerned? No.

10:49

Did that seem strange to you? Yes.

10:55

And you can tell, he's very

10:58

careful on the witness stand, parsing

11:00

exactly what he's saying. But

11:05

it wasn't Stewart who'd give the most damning testimony.

11:08

It was his wife, Emily. She

11:10

was also close to Bob. You

11:13

know, now is that they start looking. Losing

11:16

this in marijuana. I don't

11:18

know where you're going with

11:20

it. It's not it. I

11:23

don't know if it's back on this whole thing and what's going on is going

11:25

straight. I'd go straight. None of this

11:27

wouldn't happen. They know I'm more about it way back. Where did

11:29

I go? Well, someone was going with it. I think he made

11:31

it. And he had to look and see. I don't know if

11:34

it's right. Emily

11:44

ends up playing an enormous role

11:46

in the trial. Somewhat unwittingly. I

11:49

mean, Emily,

11:53

I think she sort of got dragged into

11:56

this. You know, she's not a sophisticated lawyer.

11:58

She's in Stewart's office. She kind of answers

12:00

the phone and does the books. And

12:03

I've been in their office. It's really an

12:06

office. It's him in a room with

12:08

a desk and then a little doorway

12:11

and her in a tiny room with

12:13

a desk and a doorway to the

12:15

hall. OK,

12:18

now stand up and walk back as far

12:20

as you can go so I

12:23

can see all of you. Just let the phone

12:25

hang. OK. Oh,

12:31

you look good. You

12:33

look sexy. OK. I

12:36

think one of the things that people will remember

12:38

is that moment where Bob and Emily have a

12:40

jail visit. He says that she looks sexy.

12:43

Just don't worry about you look sexy. No,

12:47

but thank you. We've

12:50

married too long for that. You know that.

12:52

You can't believe it. What

12:57

did you make of that? It's

13:00

a key to Bob's charm,

13:03

right? There is sex appeal weirdly in

13:05

Bob. Not at the end, but when

13:07

we first meet Bob, he's

13:09

kind of this gentleman, silver-haired guy

13:11

with a beautiful cashmere sweater. He

13:14

sort of got this vibe. I think Emily

13:18

succumbed to that in some way. I mean,

13:20

I don't think they really had a deep,

13:22

hard flirtation the whole time. There's

13:24

no question that when Emily comes to see

13:26

Bob, he wants to let her

13:28

know that he finds her appealing, and

13:32

he wants to make her feel young again

13:34

and cool, and it probably works

13:36

on her. Eventually, Lewin

13:38

gets Emily on the stand. As

13:42

you sit here today, do

13:44

you have knowledge of

13:47

where Robert Durst was at

13:50

the time of Susan Bergen's murder?

13:55

I asked her in essence, isn't

13:57

it true that Bob Durst told you that he was

13:59

in law at the time of the

14:01

murder. And her

14:03

response to that question was... It's

14:11

hard to hear, but Emily says, I wish

14:14

I could remember. And

14:16

I'm listening to that answer, and it's

14:18

like the world slows down. And

14:22

I have time to say to myself, oh, my

14:24

God, she just gave it to me.

14:28

Because if she didn't know anything about Bob being in L.A., instead of

14:31

saying, I wish I could remember, Emily

14:36

would have simply answered, no. And

14:40

so I kept pushing and pushing and pushing. Did Bob Durst ever

14:43

tell you, in the course of

14:46

your relationship with his friend, that

14:49

he was in Los Angeles at

14:51

the time of Susan Burton's murder? I

15:01

think he said he was in Los Angeles, where he was at

15:03

the scene at 3rd time, and

15:05

he was specifically saying he was going

15:07

to see the movie. He

15:10

mentioned a hotel, or what he was doing here.

15:16

I think he

15:18

mentioned everything that we had been doing.

15:23

So he told you that you were staying at the Beverly's

15:27

Hotel in Los

15:29

Angeles at the time Susan Burton was

15:31

murdered. Is that correct?

15:36

Ma'am, are

15:39

you aware, as you sit

15:41

here today, that

15:44

Mr. Durst has never

15:46

admitted to

15:49

investigators or to the media that

15:52

he was in Los Angeles in December of 2000?

15:54

Are you aware of that? No, no,

15:57

no. That's

16:04

where Emily's testimony ends in the TV show,

16:06

but there's a little more to the story,

16:08

because the next day, she gets back on

16:10

the stand, and with defense attorney Dick DeGaren's

16:12

help, she tries to walk it back. Let

16:17

me ask you this. You sometimes mix up what

16:20

you've heard from Stewart with what you've heard

16:23

from other people and what you may have read

16:25

in the newspaper. It's entirely

16:27

classified. Have you done

16:29

that with what you think you've heard

16:31

from Bob? It's entirely

16:33

possible. So that

16:36

is it possible that what

16:38

you've related as hearing from Bob, you

16:40

actually heard from Stewart? It's

16:43

possible. Emily's

16:46

being led by DeGaren across the nomination to

16:48

basically say, yes, I don't

16:52

think I heard it from Bob. I think

16:54

I heard it from Stewart. Now,

16:57

the idea was, apparently, I guess the

16:59

defense thought that if Emily

17:01

testified to that, not only would that explain,

17:03

oh, you didn't hear it from

17:05

Bob, you heard it from Stewart, but

17:08

that because of some privilege, that that

17:10

would mean that her earlier statements you

17:12

heard from Bob would somehow go away.

17:16

And so some of

17:18

the things that you've

17:21

heard from Stewart is

17:24

what he's heard from Bob

17:26

and his attorney-client relationship, correct?

17:29

Yes. So,

17:33

bottom line, what you told

17:35

Mr. Llewelyn yesterday about being

17:43

in Los Angeles,

17:45

can you say that you heard

17:47

that from Bob or may have heard it

17:49

from Stewart? Or

17:53

do you know? It's been

17:55

easy right now. We should put it.

17:59

Then. Prosecutor John Lewin gets a

18:01

chance to redirect and dig in on

18:03

Emily's story. You

18:05

said that on Wednesday. Within

18:08

a very short period of time,

18:10

you related to us that

18:13

Bob Durs to called you during the

18:15

conversation and said he was

18:17

in Beverly Hills after Beverly Hills.

18:21

So my question to you is, how

18:23

come on Wednesday your statement came

18:26

out in parts instead of

18:28

you simply telling us from the beginning

18:30

this is what Bob Durs told me?

18:32

Can you explain that? Yes. Please.

18:37

You're asking me to remember things that happened 16, 17

18:39

years ago. And

18:41

I was really trying to answer you. And

18:44

you're really intimidating me more. Let's just, you

18:46

know, be honest about that. And

18:49

you're also scary. And I was

18:51

really, really trying to answer you. And

18:54

when I thought about it, I answered you

18:56

incorrectly. I really did. Did I make a

18:58

mistake? Yes. Was it wrong of me? Yes.

19:02

And I

19:05

think so.

19:07

I'm telling you at the end

19:09

of the day, don't talk to anyone about your

19:12

testimony. But that's exactly what she does.

19:14

And so the next day she comes in and

19:16

says, oh, by the way, I actually don't think

19:18

what I really think is that I had heard

19:20

that from Stewart. So

19:25

have you read or are you in

19:27

any way familiar with your wife's conditional

19:30

examination testimony? No.

19:34

Have you discussed it with your wife? I

19:37

just started acting pretty good at checks.

19:39

I wrote by the way.

19:41

John Lewin questions Stewart Altman on the

19:43

stand about whether he had talked to

19:45

his wife Emily about her testimony. I

19:48

want to know. Everything

19:50

that was discussed between you and

19:53

your wife during that

19:55

phone conversation that pertained

19:57

to her conditional examination.

20:00

testimony in this case. She

20:03

was too cute about her existence. And

20:06

she was about a time frame that you were sort

20:08

of about when

20:12

it is before her, when

20:14

she heard information that

20:17

Mr. Kurz was in, was in

20:19

for this, right through or

20:21

at the time of Susan Bournemouth's act.

20:26

Did you remember any words at all

20:29

that she related during the conversation? She

20:34

was hysterical. She was divine. She

20:36

was very upset. And

20:39

she said to me, I'm so mixed

20:41

up, I don't know. I

20:44

think I made a mistake. I told

20:46

Mr. Lewin that her

20:51

father was in Los Angeles. I

20:56

told him that I found this out in 2000, near

20:59

2000, in December. And

21:04

I said, I

21:06

couldn't have acted like that. Were

21:10

you concerned that

21:12

potentially that was going to be

21:17

influencing a witness who was still in

21:19

the middle of her testimony? I

21:24

didn't think of that, no. So

21:26

you're a lawyer for 50 years

21:28

almost. And you're talking to

21:30

a witness in the middle of their testimony

21:33

telling them you're wrong about what

21:35

you testified to. Is

21:38

that correct? Correct. But it did not occur

21:40

to you that in saying that, that

21:43

you were potentially affecting

21:47

that witness's testimony. Correct.

22:00

Bob expressed his frustration with the Altmans to

22:02

his wife Debbie. What

22:33

they came up with doesn't make any

22:35

sense because even if she had heard

22:37

from Stewart, it's sort of where they

22:40

were trying to say, well, you should disregard that information

22:42

because it's a retroactively

22:45

attorney-client privilege. They were

22:47

just trying to weaken it. Whatever they

22:49

can do to weaken it, what she said

22:51

was so damaging. But what they did was

22:53

just draw a massive like exclamation

22:56

point on this really bad fact for

22:59

them. At

23:02

this point, Bob's defense shifted away from

23:05

attacking the cadaver note handwriting analysis and

23:07

disputing he was in Los Angeles. Here's

23:10

Andrew talking to lead defense attorney, Dick DeGaren.

23:14

Did Emily's testimony change or

23:16

alter the course of the

23:18

trial? Well,

23:20

I think that goes into our

23:24

internal discussions and I'm not going

23:26

to talk about it,

23:28

but those decisions are as

23:30

far as they were public, that's

23:32

our position. I'm

23:35

not comfortable talking about who took what position

23:37

or not. Yeah, and I don't

23:39

really need to know what was happening

23:41

in the internal deliberations. I just

23:44

know it just

23:46

seemed to me from the outside that that

23:49

was one of those situations where you

23:52

must have learned something from

23:55

Emily Altman, from your conversation, whatever, that

23:59

was going to to pause your client to

24:02

admit to having been in the

24:04

room with the dead body. What's

24:08

the question? Wasn't that a big deal? It

24:12

was a big deal as far as the public was

24:14

concerned. I

24:21

think at a certain point they were sort of like, okay,

24:24

well, this is not going to pass

24:26

the red face test. You had Emily

24:28

admitting that Bob had told her that he was

24:30

in LA at the time of the murder. So

24:33

I think that drove

24:35

them to have to make the difficult decision that

24:37

they were going to have

24:40

Bob take ownership of the cadaver

24:43

note. I

24:45

think when we first found out that they were

24:47

going to admit to writing the note, we

24:50

discussed whether they were doing a Galveston

24:52

again. So Andrew, what

24:54

happened today? I

24:58

mean, I just got the

25:00

text message containing

25:02

a story from many times about how

25:07

Bob Durst appears in a recent

25:09

filing at Christmas time quietly

25:12

without any big announcements

25:16

to admit writing the

25:18

cadaver note. Fucking

25:21

crazy. I

25:23

mean, this is

25:26

very bizarre situation. Wild. Obviously

25:29

that dream team has done a

25:31

lot of strategizing and they've concluded that their

25:34

best path is for him now

25:36

to take ownership of the cadaver

25:38

note and to say something like

25:41

that he found her already

25:43

dead. And that

25:45

was how he decided to deal with

25:47

a humane method of telling the police

25:51

that his friend's body was there. Such

25:55

a hard sell though, right? Because then why is

25:57

you flying to San Francisco? you

26:00

were going to visit your friend in LA don't they have

26:02

an airport there they

26:05

have they have lots of airports in LA if

26:11

they go with this then the jury's

26:14

gotta believe but Bob

26:17

is truly the unluckiest man

26:19

in the world because now

26:22

those lawyers have to stand in front of the jury and

26:24

say the same

26:26

guy who is unlucky

26:29

enough to be

26:31

present when Mars Black was

26:33

accidentally sold by a bullet

26:36

and then with a heavy heart had to

26:38

cut off the body to answer the guy

26:40

who seven months earlier happened to have walked

26:42

in on his murdered best friend and then had

26:44

to take the deliberate

26:46

action of telling the police again

26:48

so he wouldn't be unfairly suspected

26:51

of killing her yeah

26:55

it's a tough sell that's a tough

26:58

side thing it's

27:05

very very hard to get out of that room once

27:07

you've admitted that you're in the room with the dead

27:09

person it's going to

27:11

be hard to say you didn't have anything to do

27:13

with killing him he also knew that meant

27:16

right he was going to testify I

27:19

never totally understood that but it's

27:22

definitely clear that they were

27:24

going to have to sell that and then

27:26

the trial was going to hinge largely on

27:28

Bob's salesmanship would

27:32

Bob be able to sell a brand new story

27:34

on the stand and what would that story be?

27:37

I got the idea of sending

27:39

a letter to the Beverly Hills Police

27:43

and Susan was dead in her house what

27:47

did you put on the envelope? Beverly

27:51

Hills Police and

27:54

on the inside on the load? I

27:58

got her Did

28:01

you lie about it for years? Yeah.

28:08

That's next time on the Official Jinx Podcast.

28:18

The Official Jinx Podcast is hosted

28:20

by me, Zach Durott-Bheadia. It's

28:23

produced by ZSP Media and hit the ground

28:25

running south with HBO. Watch

28:28

episodes of the Jinx and stream the

28:30

Jinx Part 2 on Macs. This

28:34

episode was produced by Remuso. The

28:37

director of our team is Laura Newcomb, Ethan

28:39

Obermann, and Naomi Bronner. As

28:41

a supermodel producer, it was done. Mixing

28:44

and engineering by Zach Schmidt. It

28:46

was recorded by Brett Toobin at Relic Room in

28:48

New York City. Music by

28:50

the Hondo Boys, Wes Dillon-Thourson, and John

28:52

Q. Z. Additional music

28:54

courtesy of HBO. The

28:56

executive producers are Andrew Turecki and

28:59

me, Zach Storifante. Special

29:01

thanks to Michael Gluckstrack, Ali Koon,

29:03

Aaron Kelly, and Saeban Slater at

29:06

HBO Podcasts. And the

29:08

fabulous Jinx team, Saam Neeves,

29:10

Kyle Martin, Richard Hankins, Charlotte

29:12

Kaufman, Susan Lazarus, Annabelle White,

29:14

Pedro Vitale, Jesse Herman, Michaela

29:16

Zabarafian, and Nakko Narter. And

29:19

thanks to Ro Dillon, George Vogel,

29:22

Charlie Wessler, Nancy Turecki, and Emily

29:24

Wieder. And

29:27

you, thanks for

29:29

listening. We made it all the

29:31

way through the credits. Again, as a

29:33

little treat, here's to more film reviews from

29:35

Bob and Stuart. How

29:39

long TNT? TNT

29:42

at 9 o'clock starts

29:45

Monday night in Mayhem. Howard Cosell. Oh, that

29:47

sounds good. That's supposed to be good. It's

29:49

a new movie. Frank

29:51

Gifford, Howard Cosell. No,

29:53

it's not a new movie. It's an

29:55

old movie. Frank Gifford,

29:58

Howard Cosell. Don Maris is providing... play-by-play

30:00

football commentary. I'd

30:02

probably rather watch football than watch that,

30:05

right?