0:00

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to

0:02

Something Was Wrong early and ad-free

0:04

right now. Join Wondery Plus in

0:07

the Wondery app or on Apple

0:10

Podcasts. Listening to

0:12

Audible helps our imaginations soar. Whether

0:14

we're listening to stories, motivation, expert

0:16

advice, any genre we love, we

0:18

can be inspired to imagine new

0:20

worlds, possibilities, and ways of thinking.

0:23

Audible has the best selection of

0:25

audiobooks without exception, all in one

0:27

easy app. As an Audible member,

0:29

I get to choose one title

0:31

a month to keep from their

0:33

entire catalog. This month I selected

0:35

Evil Thoughts, Wicked Deeds by Dr.

0:37

Chris Mohandy. Take Audible with you through

0:39

your week. Listen while doing household chores,

0:42

going for a walk, commuting, you name

0:44

it. Audible makes it easy to be

0:46

inspired and entertained as part of your

0:48

everyday routine. New members can try

0:50

Audible free for 30 days. Visit

0:53

audible.com/sww or text

0:56

sww to 500-500.

1:00

That's audible.com/sww or

1:02

text sww to

1:04

500-500. Hey

1:07

Something Was Wrong listeners, have you

1:09

heard you can listen to your

1:11

favorite gripping investigations ad-free? Good news!

1:13

With Amazon Music, you have access

1:16

to the largest catalog of ad-free

1:18

top podcasts, included with

1:20

your Prime membership. To start

1:22

listening, download the Amazon Music

1:25

app for free or go

1:27

to amazon.com/ad-free true crime. That's

1:30

amazon.com/ad-free true crime to catch

1:32

up on the latest episodes

1:34

without the ads. Something

1:37

Was Wrong is intended for mature audiences,

1:39

as it discusses topics that can be

1:41

upsetting, such as emotional,

1:44

physical, and sexual violence, rape,

1:46

and murder. Content warnings

1:48

for each episode and confidential resources

1:50

for survivors can be found in

1:52

the episode notes. Some

1:55

survivor names have been changed for anonymity

1:57

purposes. some

12:00

version of that. That's true. That's why

12:02

people are reaching out to us because they're already

12:04

desperate and it's already gone cold, so to speak.

12:07

I'm going in assuming that they're not going

12:09

to cooperate with me. Not that

12:11

I'm not going to try. I always

12:13

hope that there's some sort of decent

12:15

relationship or a relationship at all with

12:17

me and us who are covering a

12:19

missing person's case, but a majority of

12:21

the time that just does not happen.

12:24

I think there's a lot

12:26

of ego involved sometimes and it's not

12:28

their desire to talk about a case

12:30

they weren't able to solve. I think

12:32

a lot of people are just offended

12:34

by someone else coming in

12:36

there and really it's not a competition

12:38

to us and I think if professionals

12:40

view it that way, it speaks

12:43

volumes as to what the hell their problem is in

12:45

the first place. Something that

12:47

I hear a lot from whether it be

12:49

police or FBI agents that I reach out

12:51

to is they claim like a lack of

12:53

resources, a lack of staff and I know

12:55

that's something that you often run into on

12:57

your cases. How do you think we would

13:00

address that problem? Is it a matter of

13:02

staffing? Is it a matter of training? It's

13:05

such a vague thing to say like

13:07

lack of resources. What do you mean?

13:09

What do you need? To get paid

13:12

more, to have more officers, to have

13:14

a detective, a cold case

13:16

unit. I think it just depends on

13:18

specifically where and what, but I think

13:20

it just takes people who care like

13:23

the right people, not

13:25

the people with egos who became

13:27

a cop for the wrong reasons.

13:30

I've talked to some good cops and some

13:32

bad cops and all the good ones acknowledge

13:34

that there's a lot of shitty ones and

13:37

I've talked to some good cops who really

13:39

care and will go out

13:41

of their way to assure the family

13:43

that something's being done or try new

13:46

things and not be as gatekeeper or

13:48

stuck in the 1960s or something

13:50

like pre-internet on how things work. I have

13:52

a little bit of hope, but like in

13:55

a place like Nome, Alaska, they're

13:57

not there yet. I was recently

13:59

following May

32:00

2 and May 2023. Potential

32:03

savings will vary. Discounts

32:05

not available in all states and

32:07

situations. Creating

32:10

really great retail experiences is

32:12

tough, especially with multiple stores,

32:14

teams of staff, fulfillment centers,

32:17

separate workflows. It's a lot.

32:20

But with Shopify Point of Sale, you

32:22

can do it all without complexity. Shopify's

32:25

Point of Sale system is a unified

32:27

command center for your retail business. It

32:29

brings together in-store and online operations,

32:32

even across 1,000 locations. Imagine

32:35

being able to guarantee that shopping

32:37

is just always convenient. Endless Isle,

32:39

ship to customer, buy online, pick

32:41

up and store, all made

32:43

simpler so customers can shop how and where

32:46

they want, and staff have the tools they

32:48

need to close the sale every time. Want

32:51

more? Check out shopify.com/Wondery,

32:53

all lowercase, and learn how

32:55

to create the best retail

32:57

experiences without complexity. shopify.com/Wondery.

33:07

I want to say I first landed in Nome

33:09

late 22 or early 23, and we really made

33:11

a serious effort

33:16

to be as incognito as possible, just

33:19

about what we were doing, because we

33:21

knew that it would eventually impact the

33:23

case in some way, and that once

33:25

the cast out of the bag we

33:28

can't take that same approach anymore. So

33:30

preserving that for as long as we could. And

33:33

we did for a majority of this

33:36

season, it's been that until

33:38

obviously when the podcast came out, and

33:41

then once people realized

33:43

that we were actually for real

33:45

covering Joseph's case too, and it

33:48

wasn't a tangential story, it changed

33:50

everything forever because now the entire

33:52

town knows that the

33:54

two unsolved cases here of missing

33:56

persons are being covered by this

33:59

podcast. But

46:00

I was just being stupid and I literally

46:02

forgot to cancel my last flight, which was

46:04

from Anchorage to Nome. And

46:06

I never checked in. I've flown

46:09

enough, I know how it works on

46:11

the consumer side enough to know that

46:13

if I didn't tell anybody this and

46:15

I didn't check in, I'm not going to

46:17

appear on your app as like

46:19

P. Lindsey in some upgrade list, but

46:22

not calling my name out at the

46:24

desk. I know that those things

46:26

aren't how somebody knew I was coming to Nome.

46:29

It had to be from someone who

46:31

can look that up. The

46:34

day of the flight, it was as

46:36

if people knew the flight I was

46:38

going to be on specifically. I

46:41

decided because they were so certain

46:43

that I was coming that

46:45

I'm just going to pretend like I was there. So

46:48

if anyone was trying to keep tabs on me, at

46:50

least for a moment, they'd think, holy shit, how did

46:52

he get past us? Or

46:55

simultaneously trying to figure out,

46:57

is there anything to this? Am I reading

46:59

into it too much? And turns out

47:01

I wasn't. But nine

47:03

or not, multiple people had looked

47:06

up to see if I was

47:08

coming. And without any hint

47:10

that I was going to be there, I

47:13

can only assume that somebody was

47:15

monitoring it, checking frequently

47:17

my name. I

47:19

don't work for Alaska Airlines. I can't

47:21

go into their computer system. I

47:24

can't prove who did what. Only

47:26

they can do that with some

47:28

form of internal investigation. And

47:31

obviously, we don't feel safe

47:33

flying commercially via Alaska Airlines

47:36

to Nome anytime soon, if

47:39

our information can't remain private. And

47:42

that's a major safety concern

47:44

when in a town that

47:46

small, we're basically here to

47:48

investigate two unsolved murders. It

47:51

could be a vacation and I don't want you to know where

47:53

I am. I don't even post

47:55

my location until I leave somewhere for sure. Yeah,

47:57

I don't have to make any big claims here. other

48:00

than I don't like that. I

48:02

don't want you to know where I am at all times.

48:04

And I think everyone might feel that way. So

48:06

nefarious or not, or a combination of

48:09

all the above, I'd like

48:11

to know where that came from. And I'd more

48:13

so like to know that it won't happen again.

48:16

Obviously, I'm not gonna take their

48:18

airline anymore. And we'll find

48:20

other creative ways to get there. Are

48:23

there other routes that people take in? You

48:26

can get there by boat, but

48:28

now it would have to be

48:30

something that we're really creative on

48:32

who we're telling who what. We

48:35

cannot be the names, the real names of

48:37

ourselves on that thing, which we

48:39

know some people who could help us with that, but that would

48:41

have to be what it is. So

48:43

essentially, they may have looked at

48:46

the flight manifest and saw that you were supposed

48:48

to be on this flight. Yeah,

48:50

someone who works at the airport

48:52

and or airlines who has access

48:55

to that. I do

48:57

know that it's federally regulated because

48:59

of terrorism. It is

49:02

a federal crime to access

49:04

and disseminate private information like

49:06

that. It could have been one

49:09

person, two people, three out of

49:11

curiosity. Whether it was nefarious

49:13

or not, you still deserve your privacy. Yeah,

49:16

and I think that with as

49:18

many ties to certain individuals

49:20

who have been aired on this podcast

49:22

to the airline and could

49:25

be somebody who could be privy to

49:27

that information or also have access to

49:29

it, it just makes it feel even

49:31

less safe. You don't have

49:33

to connect a whole bunch of dots for

49:35

you to understand why we would be uncomfortable

49:37

or feel like something should be done about

49:39

it. What comes next

49:42

in this case? How many

49:44

episodes are you anticipating and where are

49:46

you at in the investigation? We

49:49

have one coming out this week, episode 16. And

49:52

then we have episode 17 coming out

49:54

next week. Then we're taking

49:56

another small break and we're gonna come

49:58

back in conclusion. with

50:01

eight more episodes. And

50:03

just like in the first installment,

50:06

it was mostly about Florence's case

50:08

and then it became about Joseph's case and

50:11

then part two has been about Joseph mostly.

50:13

The third installment

50:15

will be both cases more

50:18

evenly covered and now

50:20

that you're caught up on what there is

50:22

to know, pulling out everything we

50:24

got in the box and showing it to

50:27

you. What has it been

50:29

like to have that support from

50:31

Florence's family and from Joseph's family?

50:33

Have they listened to the

50:35

podcast? I can't imagine what

50:38

it would be like to hear the

50:40

podcast. I know some of them listen

50:42

to it, some of them

50:44

choose not to, which I also understand.

50:46

Some people have listened to certain

50:48

parts because they were told by other family

50:50

or friends that they should hear this part.

50:53

But I think that overall,

50:55

it's felt to me

50:58

and them too, I believe,

51:00

like a sense of camaraderie

51:02

that feels pretty nice in the

51:04

sense of us collaborating

51:06

to get answers. And

51:09

attention for their loved one. Yeah,

51:11

and other people care and they

51:13

can see that. People have

51:16

done beautiful oil paintings

51:18

of Joseph and Florence

51:20

and stuff like that. To the

51:22

family, that's amazing. They're not forgotten.

51:25

I'm sure it's simultaneously the hardest

51:28

thing on earth to relive it

51:30

and go through all that and

51:34

for it to be spotlighted again. And unfortunately,

51:36

that's kind of what has to happen to

51:38

solve it unless the police

51:41

do something different. But I

51:43

think for the most part, what they've

51:45

believed happened or didn't

51:47

happen to their loved ones has

51:49

been more and more validated.

51:52

That matters more than people consider

51:54

it does sometimes. I

51:56

can't arrest anybody, but knowing that they

51:59

weren't crazy. and that

52:01

that person did say this or

52:03

that my own objective

52:05

investigation found what

52:08

they thought was weird too,

52:11

that validation is also something

52:13

that's helpful and

52:16

just moving forward in some way and not

52:18

being alone on an island and the

52:20

only one thinking and talking this

52:22

way about it. I'm sure it

52:24

would instill hope. More eyes is

52:27

always better, especially on missing persons

52:29

cases and so I imagine

52:31

that for them it would bring such

52:33

a sense of comfort that somebody's actually

52:35

working this, especially after waiting so long.

52:39

What is one of the more

52:41

common misconceptions that people have about

52:43

missing persons cases? This

52:45

is just my opinion, but I

52:48

feel like most people never go missing. Missing

52:50

means they're dead. Now there

52:52

are cases where people have been found and

52:55

they were alive or they were kidnapped or

52:57

they ran away and started a whole new

52:59

life, but when years go by, a

53:02

lot of those things become less likely

53:05

and I tend to

53:07

believe that a majority of

53:09

year old unsolved missing persons

53:11

cases, they're basically just

53:14

unsolved homicides without a body, especially

53:16

if the evidence points to that,

53:18

circumstantially. It's very infrequent

53:20

that somebody would actually have like

53:23

a mental break or choose to

53:27

vanish themselves, essentially. Yeah, choose to

53:29

go missing on their own account

53:31

in accord and still be alive

53:33

and well somewhere. That

53:36

is, in my opinion, the

53:38

lowest on the list. It's not the

53:40

most common thing. That I think

53:42

is a common misconception. It's

53:45

too broad of a look at it.

53:47

You got to zoom in some more

53:49

and say, okay, they're not hiding somewhere.

53:52

Maybe someone hid them somewhere. What

53:55

is the most common misconception that people have

53:57

about you? I think there's a

53:59

lot of misconceptions. of

56:00

the family and their words. I'm happy and thankful

56:02

that you were able to make time to come

56:04

on and I certainly appreciate the

56:06

work that you do and where can

56:08

we go and support you? Well,

56:11

thank you for all those kind of words. That was very

56:13

nice of you. I feel the same way about you. You're

56:15

doing