0:01

Welcome to the Rehab Rebels podcast

0:03

. Are you a rehab professional ready

0:05

to transition to an alternative career ? Hear

0:07

inspiring stories from others just like

0:10

you and learn the best ways to bridge

0:12

your career gap . This podcast

0:14

has you covered . Now here's your host , doctor

0:16

of physical therapy and podcaster , tanner

0:19

Welsh .

0:21

Maggie , I'm really excited to have

0:23

you on and talk to you . I

0:25

found out that you are

0:27

the co-owner and founder

0:30

of Embodio , which is a tech startup

0:32

, and I'm super excited to hear your story

0:34

and your journey with how you graduated

0:37

from PT school and then got where you are today

0:39

. I'll have you go ahead and introduce

0:41

yourself where you went to school , where

0:44

you grew up , what you're doing now , and

0:46

then we'll lead into how you got there

0:48

.

0:49

Yeah , absolutely . I'm super

0:51

happy to be here . Thank you for inviting

0:53

me . As you mentioned , I am a PT

0:56

by training and now in the

0:58

tech world . I was actually born

1:00

in Virginia and I

1:02

grew up in Ottawa in Canada . Then

1:05

I went to school at

1:07

Ottawa U for my undergrad and

1:09

I played water polo there

1:11

on the varsity team , which is

1:14

an unusual sport , had lots

1:16

of shoulder injuries , as

1:18

you might expect with such a sport

1:20

, which led me to spending a lot

1:22

of time in the sports medicine

1:24

department . But part of

1:26

the program I did my BSC in

1:29

Kin and part of the program

1:31

was doing a co-op . I

1:33

chose to do my co-op at a

1:35

school for kids who

1:38

had mental and physical disabilities

1:40

and I ended up doing the co-op

1:42

with both a PT and an OT . It

1:45

was eye-opening . I had no idea

1:47

. So , coming from a very sports background

1:49

, I just didn't know that PT's could

1:51

be in different practice

1:54

areas . I had no idea . So I

1:56

was so fascinated and I

1:58

enjoyed my placement over the entire

2:00

year of my fourth year

2:02

so much that I chose to apply

2:04

to PT school and

2:07

I was also in the double cohort

2:09

year . So that ages me . But

2:11

I was in the grade 12-13

2:14

merge in Ontario

2:17

, which means that we were two class

2:19

sizes going into

2:21

PT school , so it was quite competitive

2:24

. I was a bit surprised that

2:26

I got into PT school . To be honest , I

2:28

applied to the ones in Ontario for the Canadian

2:31

folks listening . I applied to

2:33

the four . My French wasn't

2:35

good enough to apply to Ottawa U so I applied

2:37

to the four in Ontario and

2:39

got into three . Didn't

2:42

get into the one that I wanted , which is probably

2:44

good . I wasn't super financially

2:46

well off , so getting into U

2:48

of T in Toronto was probably

2:50

a good thing , or not getting into that

2:52

one because it's just more cost of

2:55

living . So anyways , I ended up going to

2:57

McMaster , which was also

2:59

alternative learning , I'd say so

3:01

they do problem-based learning and

3:04

a little bit more exploratory

3:07

Choose your own adventure style . Not

3:10

great for doing the licensing

3:12

exams but really great for when

3:14

you get out into practice . Loved

3:16

my experience at Mac , so I went to McMaster

3:18

in Hamilton , graduated and

3:21

during that time I switched from thinking

3:24

that I was going to go into pediatrics into

3:26

global health . I made a big jump . I loved

3:28

to travel and I

3:30

love giving back . I

3:34

also learned in my masters

3:37

in PT that a PT could work

3:39

in global health and international

3:41

development . I ended up doing a

3:44

placement in Northern Ontario in a place called

3:46

Dryden , which is a population of 5,000

3:48

. I also went to Tanzania

3:51

in a city called Mwanza . I

3:53

worked in the hospital there and just

3:55

loved travel , loved

3:57

the idea that we could

3:59

potentially provide healthcare in

4:02

places that didn't

4:04

otherwise help healthcare services , so

4:06

thought I was going into global health . And

4:09

then in 2010

4:11

, I had graduated with a lot

4:13

of student debt it's probably a very

4:15

common and decided I

4:17

couldn't one afford to

4:19

go and do my PhD yet and

4:22

wasn't sure that I was ready for more school . So

4:25

got a job and got

4:28

a job in ortho private

4:30

practice in Toronto , canada

4:33

, for the American listeners and

4:35

I was a bit surprised at how much I liked

4:37

ortho private practice and

4:39

then ended up starting my own practice

4:41

in 2014 . But meanwhile I had also

4:44

joined a Dragonboat team , which is totally unrelated

4:46

. So Dragonboat is 20 people in a boat

4:48

plus a drummer and a steer person

4:50

, and one of the people in the boat

4:52

was a chemical engineer who

4:54

was unhappy with his job as a

4:56

chemical engineer . Tee Chi himself

4:59

had a code . On the train to and from

5:01

work I was complaining about PT

5:03

problems . This was again 2010 , 2011

5:05

. The first smartphones were

5:07

coming out just for reference . The internet

5:10

was a thing , but not used the

5:12

way it is now . We probably used Facebook

5:14

mostly . I'm a terrible artist . Could

5:16

not draw a stick figure for the life of me . He

5:19

was not liking chemical engineering

5:22

, learning how to code . He

5:24

suggested that we try to build

5:26

an app , and that's how

5:28

Embodia started .

5:29

That is awesome . I love this

5:32

. Now I have some questions

5:34

for you . The starting

5:36

out of PT school , when you

5:38

were working for Outpatient

5:41

or though , you really enjoyed

5:43

it , you really liked it . What was the reason

5:45

for the shift between working in that

5:47

setting and then opening up your own

5:49

practice ? What was going on ? What made you decide

5:51

to do that ?

5:52

Oh gonna open a can full of

5:55

worm .

5:56

Let's do it .

5:57

A few things happened . I was a naive

5:59

graduate without proper mentorship

6:02

and support . If you're a new grad

6:04

, I highly recommend getting proper

6:06

mentorship and support . I took

6:08

a job as a

6:11

clinician and the promise

6:13

was for mentorship and

6:15

I had said that I would see two

6:18

to three patients an hour at most . I

6:20

was also a resident , so this was my very first

6:22

job . Very quickly it became

6:24

clear that I was gonna see four to five patients

6:26

an hour , not two to three , and

6:29

then a lot of it was MBA

6:31

, wsab . Do you guys use the same terms

6:33

in the US ? Car accident workers

6:36

comp .

6:36

I haven't been in the work comp field since

6:38

graduate school and I don't recall

6:41

using the term .

6:42

Anyways , workers comp and car accidents

6:45

, motor vehicle accidents , and

6:47

it was just a grind

6:49

seemed . So many patients , so

6:52

little mentorship . And then I

6:54

passed my licensing exam

6:56

. I was even a bit surprised and

6:58

I think the bosses told

7:00

me my mentor was pregnant

7:02

. The reason that they had hired me was actually

7:05

to take her maternity leave , which they didn't

7:07

tell me , and she was partially

7:09

the clinic owner . The only other PT there is

7:11

a kin , a PTA and a Cairo

7:13

and an RMT , and then me . Okay

7:16

, so you're gonna basically run this clinic . You're

7:18

also gonna see five to six patients an hour and

7:20

you're a new grad and they also wanted

7:22

me to do my F-Campt

7:25

, which is a Canadian thing , but basically your manual

7:28

therapy levels , which I had done . My level

7:30

one exam was considering what

7:32

courses I should do . I

7:34

took so many courses in my first year because

7:36

I honestly didn't feel like I knew

7:38

what I was doing . I took a lot with Bram

7:40

Jam who was still such a close friend

7:43

and mentor . He was so supportive through

7:45

some challenging times and

7:47

that was my first year as a PT . I

7:49

basically ran a clinic , didn't

7:52

know what I was doing , saw way too many patients

7:54

, got really burnt out , switched

7:56

to another clinic with high

7:58

hopes . It was better

8:01

in that they had good intentions , so it

8:03

wasn't this feeling of they're really trying

8:05

to screw me over . But there was still

8:07

too many patients for me and

8:10

too little mentorship . So then I moved

8:12

to another clinic bigger time

8:14

spots , 30 minutes per patient

8:16

, which I thought would be okay . Again

8:19

, promise of mentorship did not happen , but

8:22

I met actually an incredible group

8:24

of PTs and these are lifelong

8:27

friends now . I love PTs

8:29

and I love lots of clinic owners . It's

8:31

just , unfortunately , I had three bad

8:33

experiences in a row and this

8:35

led me to opening my own practice . Because

8:37

by this point , by three

8:40

, four years into being

8:42

a PT , I had taken so

8:44

many con-ed courses . I felt relatively

8:47

confident in my clinical skills . I

8:49

had zero business skills , but

8:51

I decided that I'm gonna see patients

8:53

the way that I wanna see them . And I had

8:55

also started to take more mindfulness-based

8:58

courses yoga-ish

9:00

courses , mindful

9:03

movement , franklin if anybody

9:05

knows Eric Franklin , not PT , but

9:07

Eric Franklin courses and then I also started

9:09

to take myofascial release courses . So I

9:11

decided to open my own practice .

9:14

Awesome In Canada . Where did you begin

9:16

to ? Okay , you made the decision you

9:18

wanna open up your own practice . Where do you begin

9:21

trying to figure all that out ? I mean , was

9:23

there a course ? Was there a mentor for that

9:25

? How did you put it together ?

9:27

Things just came into my life . I would

9:29

say the dragon boat aiding is my co-founder

9:31

. The clinical practice that I opened

9:34

was actually out of a community

9:36

acupuncture clinic and I

9:38

was going as a patient , so I've also

9:40

been a patient for many years . I have

9:42

something called Ehlers-Danlos syndrome

9:45

, as it turns out for those who

9:47

are familiar , so I'm very bendy , I'm

9:50

built like a dancer but very

9:52

not coordinated , so I'm

9:54

a terrible dancer . A lot of dancers have

9:56

this , because it's a very bendy condition basically

9:58

and it affects your connective tissue . I

10:00

also have chronic pain as a patient and

10:03

so I had been going to this community

10:05

acupuncture clinic and their

10:08

space is beautiful . It

10:10

had lots of plants , it's a

10:12

big open space . They also have private treatment

10:14

rooms at the back and they

10:16

knew that I was a PT . I was going there as

10:18

a patient and they suggested

10:20

to me that I could rent space from

10:23

them . That's how I opened my own practice

10:25

.

10:25

Perfect , congrats . It's a big first

10:28

step .

10:28

It was a big first step at the time . I'm

10:30

still very close with the owners and

10:33

is a bit of a side tension , if that's okay

10:35

.

10:35

Go for it .

10:36

A lot of business for me

10:38

has been maybe not in the traditional

10:40

sense , because we do get a lot of questions

10:42

now , especially in body has been running for

10:44

eight years and we're

10:47

a Canadian incorporated official

10:49

company , very much so , but we've

10:51

run very much as a business . So I get asked

10:53

a lot of business questions , but I think

10:56

a lot of it for me has honestly been

10:58

about the people that we've worked

11:00

with , and it's the same with the body . It's been the same

11:02

with my clinic . The people that I opened

11:05

my own practice with are just such wonderful

11:07

humans and it

11:09

is the same on a body aside . We

11:12

look for people that we wanna work with

11:14

, whether it's instructors or

11:16

people that we choose to hire , and

11:19

it makes just such a world of a difference if

11:21

you align with the people that you're working

11:23

with and if you understand your values and

11:25

if you also understand the values of the people

11:27

that you're working with .

11:29

Absolutely . Do you have any pointers for

11:31

hiring or what to look out for

11:33

red flags ?

11:35

I have lots . Some of it's very personal

11:37

though . So I think at the core

11:40

of it you need to understand one year values

11:42

as a person and as a business

11:44

owner and then you need to have a process

11:46

. This has been immensely helpful to me

11:48

. So I no longer have my clinic , I close

11:50

that down , I only do in body and now I see some patients

11:52

virtually , but really it's all in body . The

11:55

way that we do this is getting to know

11:57

somebody , and I took this from

11:59

Seth's Rogan . Generally , I

12:02

think a lot of ideas are reused and

12:04

recycled and you learn them from other people . We

12:07

basically work with somebody , whether

12:09

it's on a short-term contract or

12:11

they've done a student placement in

12:13

body . It takes students and they do

12:15

placements with us and then occasionally we'll hire somebody

12:18

afterwards because we know them and

12:20

you know how they're gonna work . You get the real sense

12:22

. An interview is fine , but

12:25

you don't get the reality

12:27

. We'll sometimes hire . I'm actually in the process

12:29

at the moment of hiring somebody for

12:31

a month contract paid and

12:33

they did their placement with us already . So I know them pretty

12:35

well . But we really get to know

12:37

somebody and they also get to know us

12:39

, because it's a two-way street If

12:41

somebody doesn't wanna work with you , probably you don't

12:43

wanna work with them either . It's just sometimes

12:46

hard to come to that recognition . So we

12:48

really like to know the people that we work with and

12:50

I think it's really important to get to know

12:52

that side of somebody . Now it's not always

12:54

realistic I've hired people clinically as

12:56

well and it's tough to know

12:58

how somebody's really gonna be with patients and

13:01

all of that . So if you take

13:03

students on , that's certainly one

13:05

way , but then also maybe

13:07

just doing a short-term contract could

13:09

be helpful , Certainly doing multiple

13:11

interviews . And when we've cold

13:14

hired somebody , we always

13:16

do submit a resume and

13:18

there's usually something in our job posting

13:21

. That's a bit of not a trick , but

13:23

it's a clue . So ours

13:25

, which seems very simple , is you have

13:27

to submit a CV . We just ask that

13:29

you submit a CV and then you email it . So there's a specific

13:32

instruction . If people don't follow the instructions

13:34

, they're automatically cut .

13:36

Perfect .

13:37

And then we do an interview , usually

13:39

a phone call . So it's a short amount of time

13:41

. It's a 10-minute phone call and then interview

13:44

. We try to meet people in person as well , even though

13:46

we're a tech company , we try to meet people in person

13:48

if it's possible .

13:49

That's a great . I love that little pre-screening

13:51

solution you have with the instruction

13:53

. If they're unable to follow that simple request

13:55

, how do you think they're gonna be in the clinic ? So

13:58

that's brilliant . Let's talk about that transition

14:00

of you . I'm not sure if

14:02

you sold your practice or

14:04

letting go of that and then doing

14:06

the embodiment full-time .

14:08

To be honest , it was a process

14:11

because I'm a clinician at heart

14:13

, I think , but it

14:15

was partially . The

14:17

pandemic clinics closed in Canada

14:20

, so there wasn't much of a choice , and also

14:22

embodiment just grew so much

14:24

overnight that there

14:27

was no time for anything else

14:29

. And then , coming out of the pandemic

14:32

, I just basically made the choice that

14:34

I want to grow in

14:36

Baudia and that's where I wanna spend

14:38

my time .

14:39

Did it naturally close itself because

14:41

of COVID and you didn't really have

14:44

much there and it naturally shut

14:46

down .

14:47

No , it did close lots

14:49

of requests , but then as I came

14:51

out of COVID , I basically said

14:53

maybe , and then I said yes to

14:55

a few people as things were reopening and

14:58

I started my practice again . I actually

15:00

hired two clinicians to take over my caseload

15:02

. But part of the problem if you have

15:04

your own clinic and it's Maggie's

15:07

clinic is people wanna see you , and

15:09

that's probably not something that I'm very . I

15:12

just don't have enough experience of making that

15:14

transition because I didn't . Basically my

15:16

transition was oh , you wanna see Maggie , she's

15:18

closed . That was the end result . So

15:20

I probably can't speak to that , but

15:23

I had a really tough time coming out of COVID

15:25

and trying to balance . I was working on embodiment

15:27

through COVID basically 18 hours a

15:29

day . It's not an exaggeration . I didn't

15:31

sleep for about two years and neither did my co-mounder

15:34

. It was a bit insane . But

15:36

I had a decision to make coming out

15:38

of COVID and also what simultaneously

15:41

happened was some private personal things

15:43

. Basically , I broke up with my fiance

15:45

. The lease on my clinic was

15:47

coming to an end , so there was a decision

15:50

about whether I was going to move

15:52

to the new space . The group that I was

15:55

with was moving to a new space and there was an option

15:57

for me to get out , which I chose . I basically

15:59

said if you wanna see me , it's going to be virtual

16:02

, I let go of the clinical

16:04

staff and then I

16:07

have been traveling actually for the last

16:09

year . This only happened last year

16:11

that I made all these decisions .

16:13

Oh , so pretty recent . Well , I

16:15

am really excited to dive into

16:17

the next questions regarding

16:19

embodiment , this tech

16:22

startup , and being a woman

16:24

in this space . I haven't interviewed anybody

16:26

quite to your caliber or what you've done and

16:28

would love to hear all of it . I'm curious

16:31

, you know , if you ran into a bunch of stereotypes or

16:33

some of the challenges you guys faced and

16:35

how you overcame them .

16:37

You can probably tell , I'm fairly open to sharing

16:39

if it's helpful to other folks . There's

16:42

been tons of challenges , but

16:44

some of them probably related to my gender

16:46

. My co-founder is also Lebanese

16:48

, so there's maybe

16:51

some related to his

16:53

ethnicity . But I think

16:55

honestly , if you want it bad enough

16:57

, it's going to happen , and it might take eight

16:59

years . It has taken us eight years

17:02

to get to the point where we're at and

17:04

where people actually want our

17:06

advice and where we're

17:08

a far better known platform , and

17:11

we've done it the hard way . I would say We've bootstrapped

17:13

, which , for anybody who's not in the tech world

17:15

, bootstrapped means that we've self-funded it , so

17:18

we basically put our own money on the line

17:20

. We bet on ourselves . We

17:22

did not take any external funding . We

17:25

don't have any investors . That means that we

17:27

own the company and we can make all the decisions

17:30

, which is , I think , fairly

17:32

important and also , just from a practical

17:34

standpoint , it is something that you want to

17:36

ask any of your tech vendors , because

17:39

who owns the company

17:41

is pretty important , and who's making the decisions

17:43

is very important as well , not

17:45

just the privacy and security parts , which

17:47

is usually what healthcare practitioners think about , which

17:49

is totally fair . Those are important as well , but

17:52

who's making the decisions ? And I'm going

17:54

to give a very extreme example , which is dialogue

17:57

at Canadian company . Probably

17:59

most listeners have not heard of dialogue

18:01

, but there are more in the med tech

18:04

space . They provide virtual care

18:06

doctors to patients . They were just

18:08

purchased by Sunlife , which is an insurance

18:10

company , so the insurance company is now

18:13

paying for the platform that they own

18:15

. The insurance company is making the decisions

18:17

for that platform . That is

18:19

a bad sign and I'm

18:21

sure people can see how that's bad . Just know

18:23

who owns the company that you're using . Preferably

18:26

, know who they are and

18:29

, yeah , know what their passions are . We're

18:31

excited to be doing what we're

18:33

doing , not that it's been easy .

18:35

For sure . How long did

18:38

you guys work at this before

18:40

you actually started seeing a return

18:42

on your investment , started generating a

18:44

positive net income ?

18:46

We started October 26

18:48

, 2014 . It was the

18:51

date of our incorporation and

18:54

we started to see a return probably

18:56

in about October of 2018 . It

18:58

took about four years of a lot

19:00

of hard lessons . We had

19:02

people using it , but it was still pretty hard

19:05

and it was mostly improvements

19:07

. And the best maybe comparison that I could

19:09

give is if you opened a clinic and people

19:12

always came in and they just wanted

19:14

to see something different time and time

19:16

again for four years , that's basically

19:18

what it was . Oh , but you don't have

19:20

this thing , or you don't have this

19:22

program , or you don't have this practitioner , or

19:24

you don't have this service for four years

19:26

. And then , about 2018 , we hit

19:29

our stride . We formed a few

19:31

very important partnerships

19:33

and we signed up

19:35

a few very large clients

19:38

, which just gives you

19:40

validation and some confidence

19:42

.

19:43

Did some of that . I remember on our discovery

19:45

call . I'm not exactly sure on the

19:47

terminology , but it was a melting

19:49

pot or a fast track for

19:52

tech startup where you could go in

19:54

and pitch and talk to a bunch of different companies

19:56

and stuff . Is that the result

19:58

of some of these connections and partnerships

20:00

you're talking about ? Can you tell us a little bit about that

20:02

and what that is ?

20:03

For sure . So part of it certainly

20:06

was that program . In

20:08

the tech world there's something known as tech

20:10

incubators , and those

20:12

incubators provide resources

20:15

for people who are trying to build

20:17

a tech company . In order to get into

20:19

this incubator , you need to pitch

20:22

your company , which means

20:24

you stand in front of a room often

20:26

men coming back to your female question

20:28

usually white men .

20:30

That's what I figured .

20:32

And you pitch your idea and you

20:34

have it's called a slide deck , presentation

20:36

deck , and you're showing the

20:39

problem solution

20:41

, why you are the right people to

20:43

solve this problem , how

20:45

much money it's going to generate , why

20:48

somebody would invest , why somebody

20:50

should be interested . And

20:52

then they decide we started in 2014

20:55

. In 2015 , I found

20:57

out that there's a event in Toronto

20:59

called TechTO , in which

21:01

not just healthcare , but tech

21:03

people from all industries , tech startups

21:06

go and hang out and eat pizza

21:08

and drink beer , as you might

21:10

think with tech startups

21:12

and network . So it's cool . I

21:14

clearly need to go to this thing and

21:16

drink beer I'm actually celiac busted

21:18

and drink beer and hang out

21:20

with these people , and we did . And

21:23

one of the vendors there was called the

21:25

DMZ , the digital media zone

21:27

, which is a big tech

21:30

incubator in Toronto . As it turns out

21:32

and I explained what

21:34

we're doing . They're like great , you should apply . So

21:36

we did and we actually got it . I'm

21:39

not 100% sure how we got into the incubator

21:41

because it was the first time that I had ever heard

21:43

of this concept of pitching or put together

21:45

a pitch deck , but it's basically just a presentation

21:48

. Anyways , they liked us because probably

21:50

one I was female and at

21:52

the time so this was 15 , they're

21:55

very conscious of this idea of

21:57

more women in tech my

21:59

co-founder is Lebanese more people

22:01

who are not white in tech and

22:04

I'm also a PT . So

22:06

this idea of having a technical

22:08

co-founder , which is my co-founder

22:10

and me in the industry , is

22:13

the perfect marriage because

22:15

you understand the industry and you could build the

22:17

tech . We were two people at the time . We

22:19

didn't have a team , but they

22:21

saw something and they let us in and

22:24

we were in this incubator for the next three

22:26

years and 100% . It

22:28

led to our personal

22:30

development , I think , as people , but also

22:33

as business people understanding how to run a tech

22:35

business , connections , the

22:37

ability to practice pitches , the ability

22:39

to network with other tech companies

22:42

. And , just to give some idea , it's based

22:44

. The DMZ is this

22:46

four-story

22:48

building downtown Toronto

22:50

where they have tech companies

22:52

from every industry , so it's fashion

22:55

, healthcare , there's some

22:57

grocery tech in there and

22:59

you just work alongside each

23:01

other every day . You're in open

23:03

co-working space and you get to network

23:06

and chat with people and they also

23:08

have resources . They have mentorship and programs

23:10

that help you develop as an

23:12

entrepreneur and as a tech

23:15

founder .

23:16

Perfect . What does this incubator

23:18

do you have to pay to be

23:20

in this ? Because if they aren't investing

23:23

in you , if they aren't going to be able to buy

23:25

equity in your business , then what are they

23:27

getting out of ? It is what I'm trying to figure

23:29

out . How does all that work ?

23:31

They get funding . Most of these incubators will

23:33

get funding from governments , so they'd get funding

23:36

from the Ontario government based on how

23:38

successful their companies are . They also

23:40

have a program where they will invest

23:42

in you . We weren't at that stage when we

23:44

got in and we said

23:47

no at the time when we were at

23:49

that stage . There is an option for investment

23:52

and equity .

23:53

That's awesome . So the program that you guys show us is

23:55

actually funded by Canada . I

23:57

didn't know they had those things going on , so that's

24:00

brilliant .

24:00

They do . There's some in the US as well

24:02

, big ones in the US .

24:04

What would you feel was one

24:06

of the challenges that you're willing to share

24:08

on this tech startup journey , and

24:10

how did you overcome it ?

24:12

as a clinician myself , I'm

24:14

going to pick the challenge

24:16

of rejection , because I think

24:18

that we all get

24:21

rejected as clinicians . This

24:23

is something that I didn't understand

24:25

in school . We're not all

24:27

the right fit for every person

24:30

, and in body is not the

24:32

right fit for every clinic or

24:34

for every practice or for every clinician

24:37

. And becoming very comfortable

24:39

with that is so

24:41

helpful with your own

24:43

internal piece , I

24:46

think , and part of that is also

24:48

understanding who you are the right

24:50

fit for . So if you

24:52

are a clinician and I'm

24:54

not interested in tech at all that's

24:56

okay . But wherever you're at

24:59

, if you can understand what

25:01

value you're bringing and

25:04

who you're bringing it for , you

25:06

will also be a lot more comfortable when people

25:09

say no , and okay when they say

25:11

no also , which is a wonderful thing

25:13

. Once you become okay

25:15

when people say , oh , this isn't for me . They may not

25:17

say it in those words , but you will

25:19

be able to pick up on it . It's just such

25:21

a beautiful inner piece that you can come to

25:23

and your life will be better and

25:25

you will feel better about yourself

25:27

, which will then allow you to serve

25:30

the people that are the

25:32

right fit for you , because then you can also

25:34

notice when people come in and you are

25:36

the right fit for them , that you

25:38

can spend more energy there and

25:41

then you can distribute your energy , because it is hard

25:43

being a clinician or a business owner

25:45

or a clinic owner . It is really challenging

25:48

, and to better understand

25:51

where you're going to put your energy

25:53

is such a helpful thing

25:55

for yourself .

25:56

I love all that . Who do you feel would be good at

25:59

owning and operating a

26:01

practice and who do

26:03

you feel would be good at , you know , launching

26:05

and owning and operating a startup

26:07

?

26:08

I sincerely hope that there are more

26:11

PTs and just generally healthcare

26:13

practitioners who want

26:15

to get involved in the tech space . That's

26:18

been my side piece for

26:20

a number of years . Startups

26:22

are certainly a different beast . If

26:25

you're interested in doing that work or if

26:27

you think that you're interested in exploring

26:29

that , I'm 100% open to talking

26:31

to you . I've spent many years in

26:33

that space so I think , even just to be

26:35

a sound board I don't think you know until you try

26:37

it but startups , you need to be

26:39

okay with uncertainty . It's a different

26:42

level than clinic ownership . Clinics if

26:44

you have solid clinical

26:46

skills and you have a passion for a

26:48

particular niche , I think you'll

26:51

do probably okay as a clinic

26:53

. Startups if you have a passion

26:55

for a particular area and you're okay with being

26:57

punched in the face multiple times all the

26:59

time , go for it . It's not pleasant

27:01

for many years and I think it's different

27:03

. I haven't been VC back , so again back to the bootstrap

27:06

. We self-funded it , but I just

27:08

think startup is a different beast . Clinic

27:10

ownership I did it a bit and obviously

27:12

it was a clinician for many years . But I

27:14

think if you're interested in owning

27:16

a business , then you

27:19

should 100% explore

27:21

it and figure out

27:23

a plan for exploring it in a way

27:25

that you also have your non-negotiables

27:28

. So if you have a family

27:30

and you're like I can't pay my rent

27:33

or my mortgage , that's a non-negotiable

27:35

then that's when you

27:37

need to go get an employee job

27:39

or whatever . But you need to have your non-negotiable

27:41

set so that when things go down

27:44

, you know what your benchmark

27:46

is . So you need to have basically your benchmark

27:48

, your low benchmark , what is not

27:50

okay anymore .

27:52

Yeah . So a question that I had for

27:54

you , for sure , too , is how did you support

27:57

yourself ? I mean , you're dedicating all this time

27:59

to getting this off of the ground for

28:01

several years . What did you do

28:04

, I guess , on the side , to stay

28:06

afloat and pay the bills ?

28:09

Yeah , it's a very good question . I

28:11

worked a lot . So I

28:13

started my PT practice in

28:15

April of 2014 , and

28:18

we started in Baudia in October

28:20

of 2014 . That wasn't

28:22

really planned , it's

28:24

just what happened . So I was

28:26

building my practice , which there's

28:30

always patience . So I was doing that

28:32

as my full-time gig for four

28:34

years , as we were building in Baudia

28:37

and then building in Baudia all

28:39

the time in between . So I didn't have much of a social

28:41

life and I worked a lot .

28:44

Makes sense . I figured you probably practiced

28:46

on the side you know in use for PT skills

28:49

, but I just wanted to check because

28:51

you never know .

28:52

I found a few other creative things , but

28:54

it was mostly my PT practice

28:56

that was pain me .

28:59

This is an overall , broad question . Whatever

29:01

comes to mind . Answer it however you like . What

29:04

have you realized from this journey , life awareness

29:06

, or something that you've realized or

29:08

gained that you didn't know before ?

29:11

I think there's been a lot . I

29:13

think that when you really challenge yourself

29:15

, you learn a lot about yourself , and

29:18

sometimes that challenge is

29:20

incredibly unpleasant and

29:23

you feel a lot along the way . But

29:25

I also think that you develop

29:27

into a very different person

29:30

that you would have been . I just can't

29:32

encourage enough going

29:34

outside of your comfort zone . I

29:37

am somebody who is very introverted

29:39

, who likes to be

29:42

one-on-one , which is maybe why this

29:44

is quite comfortable . But if you put me

29:46

in front of a group of 500 people on a

29:48

stage , it might be a different vibe

29:50

, although I did start

29:53

a tech event which was called HealthTO

29:55

, for the purpose of practicing

29:57

my public speaking skills in front

29:59

of a live audience , which started as

30:02

20 people and it literally

30:04

ended as 500 people

30:06

.

30:06

Dang .

30:08

It was quite an experience to have to present

30:10

and host and emcee in front of that many

30:12

people , but when you push yourself to do things

30:14

that are so uncomfortable being

30:17

in a tech startup at times is still

30:19

very uncomfortable to me , but when

30:21

you push yourself to do those things , you also learn

30:23

so much about yourself and you grow

30:25

as a person . I think it's a little

30:27

bit cliched , but I do think

30:29

that if you're not pushing yourself and

30:31

probably PT's one of the things that's

30:33

more easily relatable is exercise

30:36

. When you don't push yourself

30:38

, you are not at your limit , and

30:40

I'm also a rock climber , which I love

30:42

about rock climbing , because if you're not falling off

30:44

the wall , then you're not pushing yourself

30:46

hard enough , and I think it's the same for

30:48

everything else .

30:50

I completely agree , and that's , I think , what's required

30:52

to grow and learn and discover

30:54

even more about yourself . You have to be

30:56

challenged and be put in these unfamiliar

30:59

, sometimes uncomfortable situations

31:01

in order to do that and grow . Have

31:04

you heard of I don't remember the title of

31:06

the documentary , but there's this climber

31:08

that climbed up a huge mountain

31:10

solo .

31:11

El Cap Alex .

31:13

Yeah , so you know the guy .

31:15

In the rock climbing world yes , very well known . It's

31:17

a bit of a crazy thing to me , so okay , that

31:20

to me I would not do . I don't understand

31:22

actually the mentality , and there's a new Netflix

31:24

series called the Human Playground which is all

31:26

about people doing really extreme

31:28

sports that cause extreme pain and

31:30

why they do it interviews about why they do it

31:33

, which I find fascinating . But

31:35

for me , when I rock climb , I

31:37

want to know that if I fall , I'm not going to fall

31:39

to my death Free , solo . If

31:41

he fell , he was falling to his death . I

31:43

don't understand it , but I

31:46

think that the idea of pushing your limits

31:48

fantastic .

31:50

It is great documentary . I really enjoyed it . Let's

31:52

talk about more about Embodia . I

31:55

would like to know , and the

31:57

rehab rebels would like to know , who this

31:59

service is for and what it is

32:01

that you offer .

32:04

The primary thing that we offer is

32:06

an all-in-one platform For the

32:08

practitioners and the clinics who want to

32:10

manage their practice on one

32:12

platform . That's what Embodia does

32:14

. We offer everything

32:16

from practice management , emr

32:19

charting , scheduling , online booking

32:21

and billing . We have super bills . We

32:24

do not integrate with the insurance system

32:26

. So if you're an insurance-based clinic , I'm sorry we're

32:28

not for you , but otherwise , practitioners

32:31

in the US , yes , and

32:34

in Canada we do have an integration with

32:36

TELUS and we're just about

32:38

to launch our insurance with HCI , which is a very Ontario-based

32:41

insurance integration . And

32:43

then we also have HEP . So exercise

32:45

prescription we have a huge library of exercise

32:47

videos . Patient education that can be shared

32:50

with the patient . Questionnaires , so

32:52

intake forms , outcome measures . We

32:54

also have a large group of

32:57

pelvic folks who use Embodia because

32:59

we have pelvic content . We

33:01

also have the fiber and bladder diaries . You

33:03

can build your own diaries like stress and

33:06

sleep diaries . Those are the most common

33:08

ones that people build . And then we have a TELEREE

33:10

hub platform . So if you want to run virtual sessions

33:13

, group and one-on-one two-way messaging

33:15

between patients and practitioners , and

33:17

then we have the whole con-out side , and

33:19

the con-out side is multifaceted

33:22

. So we have a library of courses

33:24

. There's about 1,000 on-demand courses

33:27

that are for practitioners . We

33:29

also have an option where clinics

33:31

can host their own content , their

33:33

own courses , and sell them

33:35

to patients in the general public . So

33:38

if you have content ideas whether it's birthing

33:40

prep , that's a common one , labor and delivery

33:43

, how to treat your knee , how to treat your

33:45

own back , clients and clinicians put together

33:47

their own courses and then can

33:49

sell them . They can also sell them in memberships

33:51

and packages . And then for the large

33:54

organizations like hospitals , universities

33:57

, large clinics , we have something called private

33:59

academy , which allows you to host your

34:01

own content internally and train

34:03

your team . So typically that's used by

34:05

hospital systems , universities

34:08

, like I mentioned , it's really for internal

34:10

team training .

34:11

Whoa , that's awesome . You guys really hit

34:13

the whole spectrum there .

34:15

We are literally an all-in-one platform

34:18

.

34:18

The continue to Ed . Are you guys

34:20

accredited to in the States , in the United States

34:23

?

34:23

We have courses that are accredited , but

34:25

not the entire platform . So you need to check

34:27

the course pages and if they

34:30

have been accredited for CEUs in the US

34:32

, then it'll be listed If they've been accredited

34:34

, because we also get accredited in places like

34:36

South Africa , New Zealand

34:38

, Australia , so anywhere that they've

34:40

been accredited . At the bottom of the page you'll

34:42

see an FAQ that says CEUs

34:45

and then the list where it's been accredited

34:47

.

34:47

Perfect . Do you have any book

34:50

recommendations that have been

34:52

really helpful for you going

34:54

through any part of this process

34:56

that you would like to share ?

34:58

I have lots . It depends

35:01

on where somebody's at .

35:03

For sure , and if nothing comes out

35:05

, that's fine too . But if there's something

35:07

that you're like , man , I think this would be good

35:09

for maybe , the general population

35:12

, or for somebody starting their own business

35:14

, or whatever comes to mind .

35:16

This is one of my favorite authors

35:19

, bloggers , podcasters not

35:21

in the PT world , but I think that he

35:23

has a very practical voice which

35:25

I think PT's would appreciate . His

35:28

name is Seth Godin . He has lots

35:30

of books . The one that might be of interest

35:32

, especially in the time that we're

35:34

in right now , is called Purple Cow , and

35:37

the idea is there's lots of brown cows , but

35:39

how do you stand out as a purple cow

35:41

, how are you unique ? Think about the

35:43

area that you're in in practice , clinic

35:46

, whatever business you're in and how

35:48

do you stand out and how do you

35:50

market that message ? He's

35:52

a marketer by heart , but I like his voice

35:55

because he's so practical .

35:57

For sure I love that . Well , maggie

35:59

, thank you so much for taking time

36:01

to come on the show and share

36:03

and talk about your story . We really appreciate

36:06

it , thank you .

36:07

Yeah , thanks so much for having me , it was my pleasure .

36:10

Thank you for listening to the Rehab Rebels podcast

36:13

. If this podcast was useful , make

36:15

sure to hit that subscribe button and leave a review

36:17

. For more information about transitioning

36:20

to alternative careers , head to

36:22

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36:24

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36:26

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36:28

.