0:00

This podcast is brought to you by Guiding Growing

0:02

Minds, a social enterprise

0:04

that aims to give all children the

0:07

best opportunity to reach their potential and

0:09

succeed in living rich and meaningful lives.

0:13

That's episode 94 in the Can Dr

0:15

Billy Garvey Mean Girls and Parenting Styles.

0:18

What are people going to learn this week? Yeah,

0:20

it's this really amazing research that can guide us

0:23

because we know a lot of the way that

0:25

we are generally with kids is

0:27

really important and influences our developmental

0:30

trajectory including their adult mental illness.

0:33

And so we kind of build some framework around that. We

0:35

do a little bit of role play. Some

0:39

role play because people seem to like that and then reflect

0:41

on where our vulnerabilities are in this as

0:44

well. Yeah, a couple of Stirling Griswolds in there

0:46

as we reflect now and hour later, it's sort

0:48

of more humorous but never that humorous. They're tough

0:50

times doing those grisies. But yeah, I think people

0:52

will get a bit out of those as well.

0:55

Guys, enjoy the episode. If you're listening to it

0:57

inside the first two weeks of it being published,

0:59

make sure you watch our socials and follow us

1:01

and send through some questions to popcultureparenting@gmail.com and just

1:03

get involved with the polls. There's some quick fire

1:05

questions you can put in there as well. Yeah,

1:07

Monday night after the op comes out, so a

1:09

week after the op comes out is when they'll

1:11

be there for 24 hours. Brilliant.

1:15

Love it Billy. Enjoy guys. Hi,

1:17

I'm Billy, a developmental paediatrician. And

1:19

I'm Nick, a developing parent. We're

1:22

going to use scenes to make iconic movies to talk

1:25

about how we best support our kids. This

1:28

is Pop Culture Parenting. Hey, don't

1:31

let your mother smell that

1:34

beer on your breath. She'll take it out on

1:36

me. I didn't

1:39

want to see you again for the first time

1:41

in my whole life. I didn't want to see

1:43

anybody outside. Who

1:45

is your daddy and what does he

1:47

do? I

1:50

trust you as your best judgement. Good

1:53

Morgan. Good Morgan. Good Morgan, Dr

1:56

Billy Garvey. How are you? I'm good mate, how

1:58

are you? I'm really well. Very

2:00

little to complain about. Feeling

2:02

good physically after a long period of knot.

2:04

You're looking good. That jumper as

2:07

well. Well, yeah, the jumper. This

2:10

is from my mother. She gave it to me

2:12

this week. Shout out to Helen. Shout

2:14

out to Hellspell. She said, do you need a

2:16

jumper? I think

2:19

she wanted me to wear it on the podcast, to be

2:21

honest. So here we are. It's a little chocolate brown number

2:23

for those of you just listening. Be

2:25

on the socials for the next fortnight. We're

2:28

looking into... It looks like merch is going to

2:30

happen. There's an amazing company that looks like they're

2:32

going to help with subsidised merch. Because

2:34

of the cause and stuff. We're not trying to

2:37

make cash. But I was

2:39

thinking about one of your jumpers being the

2:41

different colours. One of those really colourful cardigans

2:43

being part of their merch. But

2:45

it's beautiful. Do you know there's some people that cruise around

2:47

and might have told you this? With

2:50

a sticker they've made on the back of their

2:52

car saying, we love pop culture parenting. Really? I

2:55

was like, how cool is that? Yeah. Have you

2:57

got a photo? No, but if that

2:59

person's listening, it'd be cool to see a

3:01

photo. Yeah. And I'm assuming my

3:03

likeness is signed away and I'm locked in

3:05

forever. That's all. It's all. Oh,

3:08

poor Nick. Soon you won't be able to use your own

3:10

name. I

3:14

have to pay you a licence if you can write my name on it. Every

3:16

time. Every time you introduce yourself. Let

3:20

me just call Billy. How many times have I got

3:22

left in the bank? At

3:25

least I get a monthly allowance. You

3:27

are, mate. You're talent. You are talent, yeah. The

3:30

meat in front of the camera behind the mic. What

3:32

would be your dream? It'd be footy, wouldn't

3:35

it? Doing like footy commentary like media. No,

3:37

what would it be? Probably be

3:39

podcasting with you, mate. There you go.

3:42

Not much of a box there, either. That

3:45

was amazing. You can't tell when I'm... No,

3:48

no, talking for a living is pretty good.

3:50

Yeah, we both don't mind that, do we?

3:54

But no, it's so beautiful. And yeah,

3:57

we'll go... So there's a couple of

3:59

quick round-up things. amazing

4:01

stuff coming through. We just read a

4:04

beautiful email that I showed you

4:06

that came through from a guy, just

4:08

softening a blow. And

4:11

there's lots of amazing stuff coming through,

4:13

including offers for help, where

4:15

the help is, the cavalry is coming even more like

4:17

AV1, Ivy Street, and just

4:19

at Colour have really helped give

4:22

me back some time, essentially, with the kids in

4:24

terms of socials, strategy, and

4:28

production, audio, visual production. There's

4:30

now one of the board members who is amazing

4:32

is trying to clean up the emails. Terri,

4:34

shout out to Terri, who's phenomenal. And

4:37

so we're trying to catch up on all the emails for

4:39

requests for things. So if you

4:41

are keen on talks for the public

4:43

or professional development stuff, come through info

4:45

at Guiding Growing Minds or the website.

4:47

Gotcha. The questions still come

4:49

through Pop Culture Parenting. We can only

4:52

answer questions on topic. Just

4:54

unfortunately, we have done it with the capacity to answer

4:57

anything else, yes. And there's a

4:59

few new people coming in. You can't come and see me

5:01

in clinic. And that's

5:03

why I do this, because it's just to get to

5:05

our clinic is getting worse. Like the whole community is

5:07

getting worse. I've never seen it this bad. And longer

5:09

wait times is what you mean by worse, right? Yeah,

5:12

over two and a half years now. Our

5:14

wait time is extending. And you're more likely,

5:16

even if you are in catchment or you do meet

5:18

criteria to meet one of the amazing fellows. So I'm

5:21

not trying to like try my business for a private

5:23

clinic. I'm just trying to help the people that are

5:25

on that wait list kind of get to us a

5:27

little bit sooner. Because this is just what I do

5:29

in clinic. Whenever anyone's like, I want to

5:31

see in clinic, I'm like, this is the best stuff I

5:33

do in clinic. Why, how's it like? Is it like for

5:35

like, what's the go-be on this? Well, so a lot of

5:37

people come to clinic and you know, they might be like

5:39

someone else who's like, we want to know if this is

5:41

autism or ADHD, or we're thinking

5:43

about medication. But I reckon the most

5:45

helpful stuff I can do is think about how do we

5:47

support this kid? And that's the bit I

5:50

enjoy the most. There's kind of this advocacy piece in

5:52

work we do. Who else can we bring in? There's

5:55

a piece about like diagnosis and assessment,

5:57

which is traditional medicine. And

5:59

then there's like. like strategies management, how do we

6:01

support this kid? And I love

6:03

doing that. I'd seriously, I mean, wouldn't be able to pay

6:05

the mortgage off, but I'd do it for free. It's just

6:07

so much fun learning off these kids. And I've had some

6:10

amazing experiences since our last episode with

6:12

just really vulnerable kids

6:14

and families that are just doing an

6:16

amazing job. And, but the community

6:19

is really struggling. So Guiding Growing Minds is trying

6:21

to get itself sustainable so that

6:23

it can then do a third offering because it

6:25

was kind of the podcast and the book and

6:27

then the talks we do, but a big third

6:30

piece about going out. But

6:32

we just need to kind of get it working a little

6:34

bit better. So shout out to the board. Community

6:37

is amazing. Just like PCP community is the

6:39

best thing about all of this. Like

6:41

it's, as you know, so it's really

6:44

cool. But should we kick? Should

6:47

we kick Grizzle? Grizzle, turns out? Yep. You've

6:49

got a- Grizzle. You got a Grizzy. Okay, let's

6:52

go to the great man. Hey,

6:56

don't let your mother smell that beer on your breath. She'll take it out

6:58

on me. Feels

7:01

too long since we've heard from her. Yeah,

7:04

yeah, yeah. So

7:06

my, I only have a Griswold this week.

7:09

It's not a great one. Yeah,

7:13

in time, my laugh about it, but it wasn't

7:15

funny at the time. And it probably wasn't funny

7:18

yet. So coming, I was

7:20

on a road trip with the girls coming back and

7:23

have been away and it's

7:25

a long road trip. And a portion

7:27

of it was quite a windy

7:30

road. Anyway. Yes, I

7:32

was like, you go away without me. Yeah,

7:34

I know. I'm allowed to go away five days

7:36

in the contract. I

7:39

said, so I've been, I've traveled for

7:41

many years with my girls, not long road trips. You

7:43

know, once, twice a year we go 10 hour road

7:46

trip up to New South Wales, but you know,

7:48

usually straight line stuff. But I was coming through

7:50

some winding hills. My

7:53

girls are so good in the car when it comes

7:55

to just like sleeping, they just typically drop off. It's

7:57

like, you know, some kids just have that muscle. It's

7:59

bang. and I've

8:01

never had a problem with the car. No

8:03

one's ever had any issues. Anyway, I'm coming

8:05

down some windy roads

8:07

and one of my daughters starts complaining

8:10

about feeling sick, to which

8:12

I just respond with, you know,

8:15

in my mind I don't sound like attention

8:17

seeking, maybe. I'm like, yeah, you'll

8:19

wish I might, you've never had this problem, mate. Get

8:24

out to a flat bit, I'm like, see you

8:26

fine. And then they start complaining about it again

8:28

and I just ignored her and

8:30

started hitting some more bends and she goes,

8:33

no, I'm sick and I turn around and

8:36

then just spews everywhere in the car.

8:39

And I just like, just

8:42

giving me really clear signals the whole time that

8:44

she wasn't doing well and I

8:46

didn't, yeah, do the right thing and support her.

8:49

It wasn't great. I bet you went in then, though.

8:51

Yeah, totally, yeah, I was sick. Yeah,

8:53

obviously pulled over and sold her out and

8:55

apologized. I felt so bad,

8:57

like I felt so, so bad because

9:00

I was like, yeah,

9:02

just dismissed everything she was, not totally dismissed, I was like, you're right.

9:05

But I mean, like I've done a lot of cars in the car. So

9:07

I was like, oh, she just, you know, she bored, you know, sort

9:11

of thing, because I get bored on long road trips.

9:13

But she didn't know she was quite sick and she

9:15

was distressed only for a second and then she came

9:17

good and I was just like, I'm so sorry. And

9:19

then, you know, just all that pressure, like trying to

9:22

get quick and whatever. So I was just constantly rushing,

9:24

are we? I never had that problem, but now I've

9:26

got that problem. And so it's something I have to

9:28

work on. And yeah, but it

9:30

was pretty crappy. I've got a great medication for

9:32

you. We have to give it to Evie because

9:35

she struggles with that too. Oh, I've never had

9:37

it, but yeah, it's a new frontier, but it's

9:39

like anything in Parity Mode that's constantly evolving. Yes,

9:41

yeah, yeah, it's true, isn't it? No, but

9:44

it's hard, mate, and it's kind of on topic of

9:46

what we're going to talk about, but I think that

9:48

kind of reflection, and I'll give you my

9:50

Grease Wild. So

9:53

yeah, I've been, as I've complained about multiple times,

9:55

I've been doing a February solo parenting, because Annelise

9:57

is doing nights for kind of the rest of

9:59

the year. She's about to have done

10:01

it. Yeah, she's about to have done her 84th

10:03

hour in seven days When

10:05

she gets home this morning So

10:08

yeah, she's amazing and she does most of our

10:10

stuff so that I can do the pod stuff and everything

10:12

and Yeah cooks all the

10:14

meals. She just phenomenal sleeps five hours. I'm

10:16

just a weapon but um Yeah,

10:19

and so she um What

10:22

she was doing for a little bit was she'd get home

10:24

and Charlie's been up for a

10:26

few hours He's won And she'd

10:28

take him and have a cuddle with him like and he'd have a little

10:30

nap There was this beautiful chance for them to just

10:33

bond a bit and me and Evie to do stuff And

10:35

so it's the weekend and I was like sweet and

10:37

we bought one of those Whiteboard blackboard

10:40

combos, you know the a-frame little timber

10:42

thing. Oh, yeah When

10:44

I saw it, I was like, oh that looks

10:46

like a piece of junk and I was a little bit like frustrated

10:49

at an Elise because I was like Looks

10:52

it looks like and of course Chalk

10:55

doesn't work on the black bits just black paint.

10:57

So I'm like So

11:00

we've even got chalk and everything I can't write

11:02

on the blackboard half So I

11:04

went about I'm not kidding two months ago and bought a

11:06

tin of blackboard paint I don't know if you've got stuff

11:08

like this, but you just sit and look at it and

11:10

it makes you feel like You're

11:12

just not doing life Yep,

11:16

and so I've had this can of blackboard paint like

11:18

staring at me for two months

11:20

going how I pussy you Hard

11:23

would it be yeah hard would it be so I'm like, you

11:25

know what I'll do I'll

11:27

paint the blackboard with Evie like carefully

11:29

while Charlie and I always having a

11:31

nap I get it all

11:34

set up got even a smock like being careful with

11:36

it. This stuff's like tar Yeah, and

11:38

so I was gonna see if you wanted the rest of the can

11:40

actually to do that I don't think I'm gonna want to after this

11:42

story but going yeah, so I'm like

11:44

I get it all set up We're painting it

11:47

and at all. He's comes out and it's like He's

11:50

not sleeping. You gotta take him So I

11:52

was like, yeah cool And I throw him in the swing and I

11:54

was he was swimming while I was like there's just a

11:56

swing that you gave us actually the tang off the rafters

11:58

and He's got a just swinging and me

12:00

and Evie are painting it and I get to the end and

12:03

I'm done and I'm like,

12:05

oh I think I've got to put these paint

12:07

brushes in mineral turpentine instead of water because it's

12:10

just like tar and so the

12:12

shed is like three metres this tiny shed

12:14

that if I'm being honest I couldn't actually

12:16

put together unless I had to. Yeah so

12:18

there's a lot to this too but

12:21

I'm like I can't leave Charlie in the swing because

12:23

one of the straps doesn't work anymore so he can get

12:25

out of it so I pull him

12:28

out of the swing he's like further

12:30

from the blackboard than I am from the shed I

12:32

just need to run to the shed come

12:34

back run

12:36

I'm gone like 20 seconds he's like

12:39

five metres from the blackboard I come

12:41

back and he's covered in blackboard paint

12:43

he's like on his face

12:46

on his hands it's everything just

12:48

covered in it and

12:50

I just had this this is the only time I've ever done this

12:53

I just like swore at the

12:55

top of my lungs I said

12:57

the f-word and I've

12:59

just never done that it was like this release like

13:01

I just crossed that line and I

13:04

picked him up and I'm taking him to the

13:06

bathroom and Evie's like repeating the word she's

13:08

like what does that mean and I'm just like I

13:11

said tuck I said tuck I've just got to tuck Charlie

13:14

into the bath because he's got this stuff all over

13:16

him and I'm in there and of course like I'm

13:19

in there he's getting distressed I'm like I'll jump in

13:21

with him I'm trying it's not coming off with water

13:24

and I'm like I've got to

13:26

go grab the turps I'm nude I'm wet it's

13:29

on the back thing and I go Evie drag and he

13:31

get me the bottle and of

13:33

course it's just it's what is it lid on

13:35

yeah lids on I never got it open because

13:37

he came back but of course

13:39

she's like this gorgeous three-year-old so she's like

13:43

just pretending she's getting it playing a game

13:45

and getting it and all this stuff and

13:47

I'm just like boiling up

13:49

inside and then I'm

13:51

like in the bath with this you know

13:53

really upset one-year-old just covered in black blackboard

13:56

paints putting mineral turpentine on him

13:58

to get it off and I Just like, because

14:01

you know what it was, I just refused

14:03

to adjust. When Charlie came back

14:05

to me, I was like, no, I'm not looking

14:07

at this blackboard that doesn't work for

14:09

another day. And I was just so

14:11

stubborn. Didn't lower that expectation. No, I didn't lower

14:14

it. And it was, yeah. So it was just,

14:16

yeah, it's the one time I've done that where

14:18

I just swore, like I got that dysregulated,

14:20

that I was like, bang. Yeah,

14:23

no, I've done that. Okay. I mean,

14:25

yeah, no. I've done more than

14:27

once. Yeah, I've had that

14:29

parroting back, that parroting back with the F

14:31

word. Yeah, yeah. They just sense the power

14:33

in it, don't they? Yeah, my toe exploded

14:35

in an Officeworks car park and...

14:38

Oh, yeah. Yeah, I screamed it out. That's right.

14:41

Yeah. My toe, I just stubbed my toe with

14:43

thongs. And yeah. So I

14:45

didn't have that excuse. I was just... They just parroted

14:47

it back at you. And you're like, you're in physical

14:49

pain and you're distressed and the kid starts swearing and

14:52

everyone starts looking at you and you're just like, oh.

14:54

Yeah. Terrible. Yeah. Oh, that's

14:56

horrible, mate. Yeah, I was

14:58

just... Sorry. No, no, it was really good.

15:00

It was funny because Annelise is so amazing

15:02

that I was like... The kids have been,

15:04

whenever she's not around, they're a bit all

15:06

over the place. And I

15:08

text her in the morning and I'm like, how does she shift? And I'm

15:11

like, this is what happened to the kids. And I was like, been

15:13

sleeping lately with like Evie sleeping across

15:16

my body and Charlie sleeping across my

15:18

face and Melfi, the dog, on my

15:20

feet. None of them start

15:22

there. But I'm just so exhausted that I

15:24

can't do any of the sailing stuff and any of them.

15:26

So I'm just like, come in. Wait till they drop and then

15:28

put them in? No, more so like

15:30

through the night when they wake up, I can't resettle

15:32

them. I'm like, I'm so exhausted. I've got five hours

15:35

sleep maximum here. Just come and sleep on me. But

15:38

I texted Annelise. I was like, yeah, I had them all

15:40

sleeping on me again last night. And she's

15:42

like... And I was pretty annoyed. And she's

15:44

like, oh, you must have felt really loved. I

15:47

was like, oh, it's pretty hard to be angry about that. I

15:51

was like, yeah, it's just this beautiful reframe.

15:54

Yeah, she's amazing. But, yeah,

15:57

have you got a got a wind zone? No, nothing.

16:00

I'll give just for you because you'll enjoy this. I

16:03

don't object to fun. I love

16:06

fun. In fact, I'm the Grand

16:08

Funk Master of Fun. So

16:12

as you know, the book is only currently available in Australia

16:14

and New Zealand. Yes. And we're

16:16

trying to get some publishers, I know,

16:18

just self-promotion stuff of

16:20

showing books on camera. It doesn't work

16:22

on a podcast. No, no,

16:24

but then it's amazing. Like, if

16:27

you want to help, there's a lot of people offering help.

16:29

Give the podcast reviews. If you read the book and like

16:31

it, give it a review. We're trying to get the book

16:33

overseas. We just want the right

16:35

publisher who's connected to community. But

16:38

it is about to be in a new region. Where?

16:41

China. Oh, really? Yeah, I didn't even know

16:43

that was an option. Wow, translated? They just

16:45

said, yeah, I think so, yeah. Oh.

16:49

It's like, how good is that going to be? Jeez, I want a

16:51

copy. Yeah, I know. Oh, I really want a copy. That's

16:53

amazing. That's the first time I cried in the book. This is the

16:55

third time I cried in the book and I won't even know what

16:57

the bit is. There's no point in the chapter. Wow. So,

17:00

yeah, it's really cool. So, yeah, that's really...

17:02

Congratulations. Yeah, so we might, maybe the live

17:04

show will go to China. Whoa, that would

17:06

be awesome. Surely there's a bigger stadium over

17:08

there then. What are

17:11

the biggest outdoor sports? I

17:13

don't know. Beijing, yeah. Yeah, I don't

17:15

know what the big sports are over there. If

17:18

anyone knows, we'll probably have to block off a Saturday

17:20

night in Beijing in their arena. Imagine flying

17:22

up to Beijing for a gig. Yeah, it'd

17:24

be amazing. I just want to eat the

17:26

food. And I pitched a part of the

17:28

live show to you last night actually on

17:30

the phone and got it across the line.

17:33

I did. No, no, I'm excited. That's what, Sunday night you and I

17:35

catch up and that's what we're going to do. Yes, that's right. We're

17:38

going to bring pen and paper and we're going to

17:40

time stamp everything and try and get it mapped out.

17:42

Because I love the chats. The chats are always good,

17:44

which we do on the fly. We need some dedicated

17:46

time. My whole life's on the fly. Yeah, I know.

17:49

But no, so the live show is going to

17:51

happen. So, we're still chasing

17:54

a sponsorship. Yeah, we'll do some polls

17:57

to try and get an idea of numbers because we don't want to book

17:59

her like. 100 seat venue

18:01

and three people come. It's like your mum

18:03

and our partners. My

18:05

mum queering my outfit. Yeah, yeah,

18:07

yeah. So beautiful. Anyway, let's

18:09

go movie. Yeah. You

18:12

watched it last night. Me and girls. Me and girls. Oh,

18:14

and a lot of people, a lot of people guessed it,

18:16

right? Fetch. Yes, yes, a lot of people

18:19

guessed it, which is amazing. The first person was the next

18:21

morning. Some guys like, I'm so annoyed that it took me

18:23

four days to listen to this episode, because

18:25

I know it's me and girls. And I

18:27

was like, so, and lots of other people

18:29

had different movies, which was really great guesses

18:31

and also helped me pick some future movies.

18:33

Okay. But yeah, me and

18:35

girls. Now you watched it for the first time.

18:37

Never watched it. Sort of went past me. 2004,

18:39

so I would have been like, no,

18:41

I don't know, 14 at the time. No,

18:44

I was doing my mid 20s. So

18:46

probably wasn't my film, I guess, at

18:48

that stage. I imagine it's a teen

18:50

angled film. Yeah. I reckon,

18:52

but it was more mature and interesting than I thought.

18:54

But it has down to the test of time, which

18:56

I, so it's always been on my radar,

18:59

but I was like, why do people still talk about

19:01

this? And so then I went

19:03

and watched it and they've obviously just done a remake

19:05

as well. They're doing a remake with Tina Fey. Yeah.

19:07

Yeah. She's appearing in the game. And so

19:10

is... Is

19:12

it Elaine? Is it Adam? Rachel McAdams.

19:14

Rachel McAdams. Yeah, yeah. She's the mom. I used to

19:16

be in love with her. Oh yeah. From Wedding Crashers.

19:19

Yeah, yeah, sure. Yeah. So it's quite funny to see

19:21

her in this role, isn't it? Cause it's so different.

19:23

And that's why they cast her in it. She wanted

19:25

to be Katie and

19:28

Lindsay Lohan wanted to be Regina. Yeah.

19:30

But they swapped them because they were

19:32

like, Rachel McAdams

19:34

would be really cool cause she's so sweet and innocent

19:36

as a person that they're like, it'll

19:39

be amazing to put you as Regina George.

19:41

Yeah. And I watched Parent Trap recently.

19:43

That's Lindsay Lohan, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. I watched parts

19:45

of it. I don't know why I was watching it,

19:47

but I ended up watching half of it with my

19:50

partner. I don't know. She was a rising star.

19:52

Yeah. And really sad. And

19:54

do you know why they say one of the

19:56

things she, why she didn't have the career she

19:58

deserved? was how she

20:00

was parented, which we're going to talk about. Oh, really?

20:03

OK. So, yeah, Lindsay Lohan. It's kind of the difference,

20:05

there's a lot of people like that, where they were

20:07

child stars rising up. Like her

20:09

mum famously became a manager. Her dad, like, had

20:11

all this legal stuff against him. And

20:14

so it's really interesting. But why do you think this movie

20:16

stands the test of time? I

20:19

imagine it works

20:22

off common tropes and behaviours, I think,

20:24

of teens, and that's why it sort

20:26

of stands up. I think it's

20:28

pretty self-aware, like she is the

20:31

whole way through. And how a

20:33

character evolves and unevolves,

20:35

devolves. Yeah, so Katie has

20:37

this evolution, doesn't she, where she loses her self-identity,

20:39

tries to become someone else to fit in, and

20:42

then finally realises, like, I'm

20:44

going to stop pretending that I'm bad

20:47

at maths and be myself. And Tina

20:49

Fey is amazing. She shares some range,

20:51

doesn't she? Like, pure comedy, pure drama.

20:53

Yeah, some people say, yeah, she's like

20:55

a genius because I don't know if

20:57

you know this... This

20:59

movie is based on a book. I

21:02

don't know if you've heard about this. No. Yeah,

21:04

so it was written by Rosalind Wiseman in

21:06

the early 2000s and it's called Queen

21:08

Bees and Wannabes. And

21:11

it's essentially a theoretical kind of framework

21:13

about teenage girls. And Tina

21:15

Fey used a lot of the book. She got

21:18

one of the big production houses with Lorne

21:20

Michaels to buy the rights to the book. And

21:23

the book describes, like, the Queen Bee,

21:25

like, Regina George is kind of this

21:27

idea of the Queen of

21:29

Hearts from Alice In Wonderland plus Barbie.

21:32

And that's where the plastics comes from. Gotcha.

21:34

So a lot of it was written

21:36

and Tina Fey put her own story through

21:38

it. But, yeah, she's essentially taken this theoretical

21:41

framework and woven it into

21:43

a movie, which many people

21:45

would argue is quite bright. Yeah.

21:47

Tina Fey's done it once. Yeah.

21:50

I've done it 40 times. LAUGHTER

21:53

That's what I'm going to say,

21:55

yeah. Wow. I'm 40 times smarter.

21:58

Some would. Yeah. You can do

22:00

the maths on how many movies you've done. I'm like 94 episodes. That's

22:04

how smart I am. I think we're right on 50

22:07

because we used to do singles to start with. Yeah,

22:09

we did some singles, we did some triples. Oh

22:11

yeah, okay, yeah. So we did some triples. But

22:13

it's really amazing. So this is a really cool

22:15

story. The other thing that might've popped up in

22:17

your head when you're watching it and came

22:21

to realise that it's almost a tale

22:23

of similar to mine. Go

22:25

on. Like a gorgeous redhead that comes into

22:27

a new school. My

22:30

high school in Frankston was like

22:32

Africa. Yeah, it was a little

22:34

wild land. I loved those bust-outs

22:37

where they kind of were like at the mall

22:39

and they were like, she goes, it was like

22:41

being back in the savannah where the animals were

22:44

on heat and they were all like climbing in

22:46

the water. And then when she obviously attacks her

22:48

in the cafeteria as well. Yeah, so a lot

22:50

of that's in the book. It's amazing. It's

22:52

like this is what it's like and talk about like that queen bee

22:55

who essentially asserts her power by intimidation and

22:57

rigid rules and everything. Doesn't she? She's like,

22:59

you can't wear pink. You can't do this.

23:01

You can't do that. And then

23:04

she gets excluded because of her own rules. And

23:07

that is a style of parenting

23:09

approach that we're gonna talk about

23:11

because- So I can influence that? You

23:14

can definitely influence it. Yeah, so it's

23:16

a beautiful kind of reframe.

23:18

I could do so much more on Mean Girls,

23:20

but I should shift into the actual topic. Let's

23:22

do it. So parenting styles, what we're gonna talk

23:24

about. Okay, parenting styles. Okay, so you haven't

23:27

told me the topic. Until

23:29

just now. No, this is how amazing you are. You have,

23:31

no. So this is called parenting style. So you can pick

23:33

a style. Yeah, so how do we

23:35

label it? I'll talk about some of

23:37

the evidence in different styles, but before I give you any

23:39

of that, what do you think is your style of parenting?

23:42

Mine. Oh,

23:46

damn it. Someone asked me a question you say

23:48

about parenting styles. Mine is probably

23:51

overly involved. Yeah, okay.

23:54

I don't mean to sound like a twit.

23:56

Like all I care about is parenting,

23:58

but I, because of this. this podcast, I've

24:01

just got constantly things front of

24:03

mind that I'm constantly working on.

24:05

I wonder why do you think

24:07

overly? I'm protective, I

24:09

think. More than you should be.

24:12

I think about and talk about parenting

24:14

more. I don't parent any more than

24:16

any more. I definitely don't parent heaps

24:19

more, but I'm conscious of it. Now,

24:21

like, people are constantly, it depends on what you define

24:23

as parenting, right? So like, you know, like taking the

24:25

kids, you know, I define it as a bit more

24:27

like, you know, how you actually guide and behave in

24:29

front of them and all that sort of stuff and

24:31

do the right thing. You know, that's what I call

24:33

parenting. Like, they're

24:36

not, I'm not babysitting. I've

24:38

got a parent, I can't be their mate. You

24:40

know what I mean? Like, I've got a, I'd

24:42

like to be their mate. Everyone wants to be the cool

24:45

parent, but yeah. Yes, yes,

24:47

great. Hold that thought. Yeah,

24:50

totally. So that's the hard bit,

24:52

isn't it? And we

24:55

just influence on how your parent is how your parent

24:57

is like, you know, thinking about our own childhoods, this

24:59

approaches that our parents use, that doesn't mean we copy

25:01

our parents often, we will do the opposite because we're

25:04

like, my mom was so cold, never kind of lent

25:06

into me. So I'll lean into this kid in front

25:08

of me when that might not be what the kid

25:10

needs. So yeah, parenting

25:13

styles is this like whole body

25:15

of research that essentially

25:18

this amazing developmental

25:20

psychologist in the 60s in America,

25:22

Diane Burramund, builds a

25:24

lot of the evidence around this and it's

25:26

really cool. And she essentially, she

25:29

actually created three categories of parents and researchers

25:31

after her made a fourth. And then there's

25:33

been huge research and we can go really

25:35

deep into this. Pass

25:38

it, is this the ones? No. What are they called?

25:40

What do you want to happen? This is how amazing

25:42

this woman is. Do you want me to read out

25:45

her word for word of the original text?

25:47

Love it. This is from 66 and listen

25:49

to how much this relates. 66. Yeah. Is

25:51

that 68 years ago? So

25:53

yes, I wouldn't be able to do

25:56

that math. No. But yes. So

25:59

the first type. So let

26:01

me explain this first to give it a bit of framework.

26:04

What she would say is

26:07

that there's two components of our parenting style.

26:10

There's responsiveness. Yeah. Yeah.

26:13

So responsiveness is either warm or cold.

26:17

Yep. And there is demand,

26:20

which is either high or low.

26:25

So now demand is expectations. What do

26:27

you expect of the kid? Now,

26:29

if we think about a parent

26:31

that is cold but

26:34

has high demand, that

26:37

is like judge-dread. I am the

26:39

law. You will listen

26:41

and do what I say. You will not question

26:43

me. Tradition, respect, compliance is

26:45

what those parents are all about.

26:48

Does that make sense? Yep. And

26:51

that's called authoritarian parenting. And this is how

26:53

she frames it. The

26:55

authoritarian parent attempts to shape, control and

26:57

evaluate the behaviour and attitudes of the

27:00

child in accordance with a set

27:02

standard of conduct, usually

27:04

an absolute standard. Theologically

27:07

motivated and formulated by a

27:09

higher authority, she values

27:11

obedience as a virtue and favours

27:13

punitive forceful measures to curb self-will

27:16

at points where the child's actions or beliefs

27:18

conflict with what she thinks is right conduct.

27:21

She believes in keeping the child in his place, in

27:25

restricting his autonomy and in assigning

27:27

household responsibilities in order to inculate

27:30

respect for work. She

27:32

regards the preservation of order and the

27:34

traditional structure as a highly valued end

27:37

in itself. She does not

27:39

encourage verbal give and take, believing

27:41

that the child should accept her word

27:43

for what is right. That

27:46

is authoritarian parenting. Now,

27:48

that's how Regina George is in this

27:50

movie. You will comply with

27:52

me. That's the way things are. You don't have

27:54

a voice. Gretchen says,

27:57

even if you like a boy, you might not.

28:00

you might not realise that you actually don't, because Regina doesn't want

28:02

you to. And that's what happens with

28:04

a lot of kids. The hard thing with this is it

28:07

really challenges secure self-esteem development.

28:10

Kids really struggle with autonomy when they

28:12

enter adult life. Whereas the

28:14

person telling me what to do, I never had a

28:16

voice. It increases the

28:18

likelihood of behavioural problems. It increases

28:20

the likelihood of juvenile delinquency, antisocial

28:23

behaviour, all that stuff, because

28:27

it's like, you will just listen to me and follow.

28:30

Now, that's the authoritarian parent. We'll

28:34

keep going through them. What

28:36

if you are cold

28:40

and you are cold and you have

28:42

no demands? Cold

28:46

and no demands. You're

28:49

just... There's just, like, no boundaries.

28:51

You're not present. So it's called

28:53

neglectful parenting. Yeah. But you're right.

28:55

You're not present. You're just, like,

28:57

yeah. Run your own race,

28:59

kid. Now, unfortunately, Barryman didn't talk about

29:01

this. This came in after her. But

29:03

I, unfortunately, meet these kids every so

29:05

often, and they're the most vulnerable of

29:08

all of them. So neglect, Bruce Perry,

29:10

the amazing guy who wrote The Boy

29:12

Who Was Raised As A Dog, talks

29:14

about this. And neglect is so detrimental. People used

29:16

to think neglect isn't as bad as abuse, because

29:18

abuse, you're doing something bad to the kid, sexually,

29:22

physically, psychologically. You're

29:24

abusing them. But what we know

29:26

is that neglect is just as bad. And he

29:28

showed that it leads to smaller

29:31

brain growth. You know, it really impacts

29:33

kids that much, neglect. This

29:35

is like a lot of the research out of Eastern

29:37

Europe about kids who are given food and water

29:39

and warmth. But if they're

29:41

not held and loved and guided and responded

29:44

to, they have a huge increase in

29:46

mental illness in their later life and

29:48

in childhood. So they just

29:50

don't develop relationship skills and everything like that.

29:52

So that's neglectful parenting. And I've... Some

29:55

of the worst experiences I've had in

29:57

my professional career have been in this.

29:59

I remember, this would be 15 years

30:02

ago maybe, I remember going to a

30:04

home visit to this family and

30:07

they had four kids. I

30:09

think I've told you, I told you this too. Yeah, so

30:11

they had four kids, they were like a little kind

30:13

of maybe one year old to a nine

30:15

year old. And lots

30:18

of mental illness, Dad was in jail, Mum

30:20

was really struggling. And we

30:22

rolled into the house and like

30:24

two bikies came out because

30:27

Mum and Mum's sister were there and they

30:29

came out of the bedrooms. The kids were

30:31

all just left their own devices including the

30:33

two toddlers who had burns all over them

30:35

from going into the heaters, had

30:37

nappies around their ankles, like there was no food in the

30:39

house and it was a mess. And

30:42

you know Mum, Mum had heaps of

30:44

childhood trauma and was really struggling and

30:46

everything. And she couldn't

30:48

understand why the seven and nine year

30:50

old wanted to go to school. She's

30:52

like, I've told them they don't need to go, but

30:55

they leave early, they're the last kids there. They just don't

30:57

get it. Sometimes they have to go and get them so

30:59

they come home from school. It's

31:01

because that was a safe place. And

31:03

kids who are brought up in neglectful environments are

31:05

probably the most vulnerable of all of ours in

31:07

the community and these kids will often go off

31:11

and become like really destructive to

31:13

the community. And they

31:15

have the highest rates of mental illness through childhood as

31:17

well. So a really common

31:19

experience that happens. You

31:22

could argue that like, you

31:24

know, I often talk about this in talks

31:26

and talk about like the movie kind of

31:28

Judge Dredd is the authoritarian, like I'm the

31:31

law. And to

31:33

lighten the mood a little bit, I often

31:35

use Home Alone Mum as neglectful because

31:37

she like just cruises over the other side of the world and leaves

31:39

the kid in the house. And she does

31:41

it by accident. It's really out of character and it's

31:43

just all these things lined up. Come

31:46

on. So yeah, this is the, that's

31:48

neglect. Now the next type

31:51

that we think about is warm

31:54

and low demand. I know who that is.

31:57

Amy Poehler. Yeah. Yeah.

32:00

So yeah, Regina's mum in the movie,

32:02

Amy Poehler is like, yeah, oh,

32:05

do you guys need anything? I'm the cool mum.

32:07

What do you want? Totally. So

32:09

yeah, so she's like that, isn't she? Now

32:11

this is really difficult for these kids to grow up

32:14

like this. And let me read, because Barramund speaks about

32:16

this so beautifully. It's just amazing that she wrote these

32:18

however many years ago in the 60s. The

32:21

permissive parent attempts to behave in

32:24

a non-punitive, acceptant and affirmative manner

32:26

towards the child's impulses, desires and

32:28

actions. She

32:30

consults with him about policy decisions and

32:32

gives explanations for family rules. She

32:35

makes few demands for household responsibility

32:37

or orderly behaviour. She presents

32:39

herself to the child as a resource for

32:42

him to use as he wishes. Not

32:45

as an ideal for him to emulate,

32:47

nor as an active agent responsible for

32:50

shaping or altering his ongoing future behaviour.

32:53

She allows the child to regulate in his own

32:55

activities as much as possible, avoids

32:58

the exercise of control and does

33:00

not encourage him to obey externally

33:02

defined standards. She attempts

33:04

to use reason and manipulation, but

33:07

not overt power to accomplish

33:09

her ends. Amazing,

33:11

isn't it? It's amazing. So as a little kid, I'm

33:13

trying to remember what I called him in the book,

33:15

but the little boy who was

33:18

really violent, that's kind of permissive

33:20

parenting. Because

33:22

no boundaries means they just don't know where they

33:24

are. They don't know where they are.

33:26

They often are really anxious. Those

33:28

kids don't learn a lot

33:30

of pro-social skills. This is

33:32

why the book beautifully... Sorry, the movie

33:35

Beautifully, the book talks about it, but

33:37

the movie beautifully portrays why Regina is

33:39

like she is. And it's because her

33:41

mum is a permissive parent. Regina

33:43

is selfish, has no

33:45

perspective, compassion or empathy, because

33:48

the way Regina was raised.

33:51

By Amy Poehler's character. Now, we also see

33:53

another kid, don't we? In

33:56

the house. I don't know if you can remember what she's

33:58

doing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Little sister. She's... Emulating everything on

34:00

TV. She's doing a light dance for a teddy

34:02

bear. Yeah Inappropriate adult

34:04

content. Yeah, I'm caught the top

34:07

thing. Yeah, so she's she's

34:09

kind of really inappropriately not being supervised

34:11

She's got access to content. Yeah. Yeah,

34:13

exactly. She's got access to things She

34:16

shouldn't be and Regina George's

34:18

mum is the classic archetypal

34:21

permissive parent Now

34:23

if we think about it, so what does that mean? We're aiming

34:25

for means we're aiming for high

34:27

warmth. Yeah responsiveness Yeah,

34:29

and high demand. Yep, and

34:32

that's what we call an authoritative

34:34

parent So instead of

34:36

being the authoritarian, I'm the law. It's

34:39

I hold power, but I

34:41

hear you You have an

34:43

outlet and expression of your emotions. You have an

34:45

input into what values are I explain things to

34:48

you if you don't understand them. Yep, that's

34:50

what we're aiming for and actually think you are like that Yeah,

34:53

I'm trying but um, I

34:56

can be the law too Well, so

34:58

all the evidence is that parents that

35:00

have high warmth and high demand Will

35:03

improve the outcomes developmentally and mental health wise

35:05

for their kids It's really important that we

35:08

do that and we know that

35:10

kind of if those they have opportunities to have

35:12

a say and a voice There

35:14

is still consequences, but we only enforce them

35:16

when the child is understood that that consequence

35:18

would exist if that behavior occurs They

35:22

have a say sorry. What's the thing that

35:24

you say the difference? There's consequences and there's

35:26

punishments. Yeah, can you just run that over

35:28

again in case people haven't heard it? It's

35:30

really it's a distinction. Yeah, so the difference

35:33

between it what a lot of Authoritarians

35:36

do is called psychological control

35:39

What a lot of authoritative parents

35:41

do is called behavioral control. The

35:43

important distinction is that what

35:45

the Psychological control

35:48

is punishments The

35:50

worst one is withdrawal of love. I Withdraw

35:53

my love from you if you don't

35:56

behave we should never do

35:58

that, but that's a classic authoritarian You know, the

36:00

classic I get asked this a bit, my

36:02

kids should respect me just

36:05

because I'm their parents. Not because of how

36:07

I treat them, not because I respect them,

36:09

not because I role model it. That's classic

36:11

psychological control. It's manipulation, it uses

36:14

shame. And at its heart,

36:16

it's saying, you know, you're not

36:18

a valuable member of this family, of

36:20

this classroom or whatever it is. And

36:24

it's the same, like we haven't talked about this

36:26

in the past, but classrooms can be like this.

36:28

And the evidence shows school communities that

36:31

expel kids are worse

36:33

for every kid in that school. The

36:36

argument that we expelled that kid because we

36:38

need to think about the other kids, it

36:40

actually shows that it's worse developmentally for all the

36:43

kids that remain in that school because

36:45

it is a symptom of a school that's

36:47

struggling to be inclusive and accommodating and

36:50

understand that kids are just kids. Now that's easy for

36:52

me to say, I don't work in a school, but

36:54

I work really hard to try and build capacity because

36:56

I don't have enough resources and training, ratios and all

36:58

that stuff. But it's really,

37:01

really important that we understand that. Now,

37:03

behavioural control, what you're talking about consequences,

37:06

behavioural control is I'm here with you. I

37:09

have an expectation, but you understand it. You're

37:11

capable of achieving it. And

37:13

that's the reason why in parenting, if

37:15

we think about responsiveness, cold and warm, and

37:17

we think about demand, low and high, warmth

37:20

always comes first. Connection

37:23

and warmth. Yeah, beautiful connection. You beat

37:25

me to it. Connection is

37:27

the priority. And people will

37:30

achieve high expectations if they have

37:32

warmth and connection and guidance. And

37:35

that's the difference between behavioural control. And

37:38

that's the authoritative parent that

37:40

says, I have the say, but you are a

37:42

part of me, I decision-making. And

37:45

that's what Baron Munt says. That's

37:47

the authoritative parent. Yep.

37:50

So I'll close out her quotes. The

37:52

authoritative parent attempts to direct

37:54

the child's activities in rational

37:57

issue-orientated manner. She encourages

37:59

verbal giving. and take, shares

38:01

with the child the reasoning behind her

38:03

policy or the rules, and

38:05

solicits his objections when he refuses

38:08

to conform. Both

38:10

autonomous self-willed and disciplined conformity

38:13

are valued by the authoritative

38:16

parent. So they have a

38:18

say, but they also are part of this team

38:20

and they fall in to help us all succeed

38:22

together. Therefore she exerts

38:24

firm control at points of parent-child

38:27

divergence, but does not hem

38:29

the child in with respect to restrictions. She

38:31

enforces her own perspective as an

38:33

adult but recognises the child's individual

38:35

interests in special ways. The

38:38

authoritative parent affirms the child's present

38:40

qualities, but also sets

38:42

standards for future conduct. She

38:45

uses reason, power and shaping

38:47

by regime and reinforcement to

38:49

achieve her objectives and

38:51

does not base her decisions on group

38:53

consensus or the individual's

38:55

child desires. Does that make

38:57

sense? So we

39:00

do not box them in. So the reason she says that,

39:02

group consensus, she's not, everyone does it

39:04

so I will, around screen time, around

39:06

bed time, around food, meal times and

39:09

all that, she says this is what's

39:11

important to me. But she also doesn't

39:13

say the kid gets to choose when

39:15

they go to bed. The

39:17

kid gets to choose whether they want ice cream for dinner. So

39:20

the kid has a say and when there's conflict,

39:23

the perspective of that kid comes out first. Can

39:27

I communicate this sort of topic to

39:30

my kid? So if I go, hey,

39:32

I love you, you're great, just

39:36

bear with me here. You're a great kid, I'm not

39:38

going to tell you you can't have screen time. You're

39:40

a good kid so I'm going to give you some,

39:43

this is how I'm going to do it. And it's

39:45

different to your mate who gets screen time for eight

39:47

hours a day. This is really important to me. And

39:50

I'll give it to you because you've been great.

39:52

Can you explain that stuff? So let's role play

39:54

it. Alright. So you be one of

39:56

the girls, six and

39:59

you wanted just keep watching the screens. I've just got

40:01

home from school. Can I watch

40:03

TV? I just want to watch TV. Can

40:05

we just put it on? No, I've told you about this. It's

40:08

not happening. If I hear from you complaining about it

40:10

again, you'll never see the iPad again.

40:13

Because I said so. You

40:15

don't get to ask me about that. I'm the parent. Okay?

40:20

Now if the iPad comes up again, it's going into bin. Now

40:25

that's authoritarian. That's judged red. That's

40:28

bad luck. It's me from time to time, to

40:30

be honest. So we'll talk about it. We flex.

40:32

We don't sit in one category all the time.

40:34

But we should flex appropriately. We'll talk about when

40:36

we flex appropriately. Okay, let's do the

40:38

next one. Do it, keep in the same scenario again.

40:41

Come home. Hey, yeah, what'd you learn? I didn't learn

40:43

anything. Can I have the iPad? Yeah,

40:46

like I don't care. Oh. Do

40:49

whatever you want. Can I watch anything? Just don't get in

40:51

my way. As long as the volume's

40:53

not too loud, because I'm watching my TV. Okay.

40:56

So go do whatever you want. Am I allowed to watch this

40:58

M15 movie? As

41:01

long as you're not hassling me, it's

41:04

fine. Okay. So that's

41:06

neglectful. That's like, I don't care.

41:08

There's no consequences. I'm just cold. I'm

41:10

not going to enforce any boundaries and I have no warmth. Give

41:13

it to me again. Can I,

41:15

yeah, I didn't learn anything. I

41:18

haven't had that. Yeah,

41:20

sure. Yeah, like I've

41:23

actually just got your new one. Because I know you said

41:25

yesterday that the old one, the button wasn't working out. I

41:28

went and bought you a, oh, do you like

41:30

this one? Can you make me a sandwich? Of course I can

41:32

make you a sandwich. Oh my God, I'd love to make you

41:34

a sandwich. With ice cream. With ice cream, definitely. Yeah,

41:37

do you mind? I need to go to the toilet, but

41:39

can I, can I wait? I want it now. Right now?

41:41

Okay, cool, it's okay. It's okay. Sorry,

41:43

I shouldn't have asked. Just sorry. I wish I

41:45

didn't laugh, but I can just picture you as

41:47

Amy Pollock. Thank you. The photo shop, I'm looking

41:49

forward to the photo shop. Hey,

41:51

I'm going to be Katie, surely. Lindsay,

41:54

like gorgeous. The red hair. People

41:56

won't realise it's a photo shop. Final

41:59

one. I'm excited. See me again. Hey,

42:02

yeah, the school's good. Can I have the iPad? You'd

42:05

like to play with the iPad? Yeah, I just want to watch

42:07

it now just before dinner. I just want to watch it now

42:09

or so. So do we usually do

42:11

that? No, but

42:14

Jimmy does. So like, can I just have

42:16

it? Can you just give it to me? You can go do

42:18

your own thing. And do you feel like it's unfair that Jimmy

42:20

gets to do it and you don't? Yeah, well, I don't know

42:22

why it'd be any different. So can I just have the iPad?

42:25

Yeah. So I totally understand where you're

42:27

coming from. I feel unfair that other kids get to do

42:29

this. But as we've

42:31

agreed as a family, this is

42:34

not something that we do straight after school. Why not? Because

42:36

we know that you really enjoy the iPad, but there's

42:38

stuff that, like, you're a really important part of this

42:40

family. And we've got to set up a couple

42:43

of things, like mealtime and things like that. But

42:45

you'll be able to have the iPad, but it's at

42:47

that time we agreed. Remember we said, like, if

42:50

we can all as a team do really well for

42:52

mealtime and have those things, then you can have that set

42:54

amount of time. So when do I get it? So

42:57

as we've agreed, we'll talk about it. If you think

42:59

this should change, that's something we can talk about. But

43:01

I think it's really important. I think

43:03

the iPad's a really good treat. It's a bit like a

43:06

dessert. But we worry if you

43:08

do it a lot. It always stresses you out. I

43:10

love you so much, I don't get to spend much time with

43:12

you, and I want you to be a part of this. But

43:14

I can see that you're a bit stressed out about Jimmy getting

43:16

it and you don't. Yeah. And that must

43:19

be really frustrating for you. Yeah, it

43:21

is. But that's OK. I'm

43:23

here to support you through that frustration, and it's

43:25

OK to be angry about it. We

43:28

can think in the future about this if we all agree as

43:30

a family that this is the right thing for us. We

43:32

might try something different in the future. Is that

43:35

OK? Yeah. Can

43:37

I have a sandwich? You can. Try it

43:39

together, try it first. Yeah, same. OK.

43:42

So you can tell, you can feel the

43:45

difference, can't you? Yeah. You're responsive. Yeah, you

43:47

talked about how we change, and we

43:49

do need to change. Sometimes we need to become

43:51

a bit permissive because the kid is really struggling.

43:54

And we need to be like, I need to lean into this

43:56

kid. You know, this is not a time

43:58

to enforce those rules. This is a time to... to just

44:00

connect. And sometimes, especially if your

44:02

kid's in danger, we need to

44:04

become Judge Dredd. Do you know

44:06

what I mean? We don't explain to the toddlers

44:09

about to run on the road. We don't check

44:11

their feelings first. We just say,

44:13

mate, that's the law. You

44:15

know? You can explain it to them afterwards, but you

44:17

don't explain it to them in the moment. They're not

44:19

a part of that decision-making process. It's the same as

44:21

teenagers. Like, maybe in the future,

44:23

episode reflection will roleplay the teenager, but the classic,

44:25

like, I want to go out to the party,

44:28

you know? And if you know there's going to

44:30

be drugs, you know there's going to be kids

44:32

driving underage and they're drinking and all that stuff,

44:36

you can still hear their perspective, but at the end of

44:38

the day, they can't change your decision. That's

44:40

coming for us. Yeah,

44:44

I know. I wonder if we'll still be doing the

44:46

podcasts. When our kids are teenagers or we just go

44:48

to... We like reading. We realise that we're not really

44:50

experts. But

44:52

yeah, it's tough, isn't it? It's a dream bringing in

44:54

winslots. How are we going? We're good for time. I

44:57

reckon we play the scene. Go for it. So

44:59

this is about... You know the scene. It's about 20 minutes

45:02

in to the movie.

45:05

Katie's been included in

45:07

the group, in the plastics, and

45:09

she's visiting... I'm going to go out and visit Amy

45:11

Poe. Okay, great. Hey, hey, hey. How are my

45:16

best girlfriend? My name's George.

45:18

This is Katie. Hello, sweetheart.

45:22

Hi. Welcome to our home. I

45:27

just want you to know if you need

45:29

anything, don't be shy, okay? There

45:31

are no rules in this house. I'm not like a

45:33

regular mom. I'm a cool mom. Right,

45:36

Regina? Please stop talking. Okay. I'm going to

45:38

make you girls a hump day treat. This

45:47

is your room? It was my

45:49

parents' room. But it made them treat me. Hey,

45:52

put on 98.8. Do

46:00

you even know who sings this? Um,

46:02

Spice Girls. I love her. She's

46:04

like a Martian. God, my hips are huge!

46:07

Oh, please. I hate my calves. You guys

46:10

can wear halters. I've got man shoulders. I

46:12

used to think there was just fat and skinny. Apparently

46:14

there's a lot of things that can be wrong on your body. My

46:17

hairline is so weird. My pores are

46:19

huge. My nailbeds suck. I

46:25

have really bad breath in the morning. Ew.

46:28

Hey, you guys. Happy Hour is from 4 to

46:30

6. Thanks. Um,

46:36

is there alcohol in this? Oh,

46:38

God, honey, no. What kind of mother do you think I am?

46:41

Why do you want a little bit? Because if you're gonna drink, I'd rather you

46:43

do it in the house. No, thank you. So,

46:47

you guys, what is the 411?

46:51

What has everybody been up to?

46:53

What is the hot gossip? Tell

46:55

me everything. What are you guys

46:57

listening to? What's the cool jams?

46:59

Mom? Could you go fix

47:01

your hair? Okay. You girls

47:03

keep me young. I love you so much.

47:08

Oh, she's so good. She's

47:10

just gone at the timing. It's

47:12

mint. Yeah, she's perfect. That

47:15

kind of, um, I'd rather you drink in the

47:17

house. That's one that is... That question

47:19

is gonna come for you. You

47:21

better know it next week, mate. I'm not even

47:23

gonna ask you this week. Because I think there's gonna be

47:25

some really good examples of, like, complex kind of, like, well,

47:28

we've had this in the past, so what about

47:30

this? How do you get... Because, man, that's such

47:32

a thing. Yeah, totally. So, she's

47:35

the classic archetypal, as I said, permissive parent,

47:37

where she just wants to win her over, and she's

47:39

the reason that Regina George has

47:41

no empathy. You know, thinks

47:43

the whole world is for her. All of that

47:45

stuff. Because she's stuck. Did she start with no

47:47

empathy? Or did she... Well, no,

47:49

she's always, like, um, obviously she's

47:51

a fictional character. She's always

47:53

got her way. We know that kids who

47:56

have permissive parenting really struggle with emotional control,

47:58

and we see her. Make sense. out,

48:00

yeah, because they've never had the boundaries

48:02

around them to support them and never

48:04

had any expectation around them. So, you

48:06

know, she's taken her parents' bedroom. She

48:08

kind of just is really, you know,

48:10

quite harsh to her mum. She's really

48:12

insulting to her mum, all those things,

48:14

because there is the lack of respect

48:16

is not there because she had

48:19

the warmth that she had no demand. It's

48:21

really interesting. And I wonder if you think about those

48:23

four categories and it's amazing people have like this is,

48:25

as we've said, this research is really old, but

48:28

people have researched this and they keep coming up with

48:30

the same stuff. There's a really interesting cultural difference to

48:32

this that might come up in the questions. There's really

48:34

different stuff about boys and girls. But I guess the

48:37

one thing I want to ask you, which

48:39

one do you think you're the most vulnerable

48:42

to fall into unintentionally of the three negative

48:44

ones? If we think the

48:46

authoritarian, the neglectful or

48:48

the permissive? Authoritarian.

48:54

Yeah. Yeah.

48:56

I mean, and I

48:58

just, yeah, probably seen,

49:01

yeah, authoritarian. So for me, it's because of

49:03

absolute frustration. Sorry. Yeah, totally. No, it's interesting.

49:05

And I wonder if you think that comes

49:08

from as often that comes from our childhood.

49:10

Yeah, it was that we fall back. Yeah, yeah,

49:13

totally. And not always feel funny. I feel funny

49:15

about this, but like, not in a bad way.

49:17

But yeah, dad was quite an authority. Like he

49:19

was quite an authority. You know, like it was,

49:22

we keep saying, yeah, it was the eighties and the seventies and

49:24

stuff. So it was a bit like that. But and I'm

49:27

used to that. Like I can navigate that I feel like,

49:29

but I just feel like that. Yeah. So you probably think,

49:32

and maybe it was that that was

49:34

okay. So that's why you fall back

49:36

into it. Whereas I fall back into

49:38

permissive. Yeah. I'm just like, you

49:40

know, I look at the joy that Evie and

49:44

I do, and I'm like, I'm just like, I want

49:46

to give her more of that. And it's part of the

49:49

reason is because of my childhood, but not

49:51

because my mum was overly permissive. My

49:53

mum had so much demand upon

49:55

me that I want to make sure

49:57

I don't fall into the authoritarian because

49:59

as I said so, because that's, my mum had

50:02

to be like that. She was raising three boys

50:04

and, you know, we didn't have a lot of

50:06

resources and stuff like that. But I was, and

50:08

I was parented, we're gonna talk about this in terms

50:11

of different kids as well. But my

50:13

mum parented me differently to my two brothers and

50:15

had much higher demand on me. And

50:18

the mistake that might exist in people's mind

50:20

is, if we place a

50:22

high demand on people, that's when they'll

50:24

achieve, they'll do well at school, they'll do well at

50:26

anything. But if I've had any achievements, it

50:29

was because of the warmth that came from her. But

50:31

I think she thought it was because she instilled

50:33

this work ethic in me. Given where we are

50:35

and what we kind of do in the age

50:37

we are, like was authoritarian common when we were

50:39

growing up or is it always like, I just

50:41

find that that was common just generally. Yeah, it's

50:43

really common. With dads. Yeah,

50:46

you're right. Cause it was more likely, well, that's

50:48

the interesting thing about Barabund, she always refers to

50:50

the parent as mum, doesn't she? I was gonna

50:52

ask about that, but I had more of a

50:54

question. Is that cause? Well, it's just that mum's

50:57

like, it's all the case, but classically back then,

50:59

the dad would come in and ruffle the kids

51:01

hair after work. And we needed

51:03

to be like the fun one, the permissive component

51:06

and just, I'm here for fun. I don't give you

51:08

any guidance or I'm the law, the

51:11

authoritarian. Whereas mum's are much better about

51:13

being authoritative and much better at being

51:15

warm and all those things. And do

51:17

you know the reason why? Because

51:21

girls developmentally have

51:24

more advanced social skills as a

51:26

whole. And

51:28

authoritative parenting for girls

51:31

gives them assertiveness. They're more

51:33

likely to be assertive. Authoritative

51:36

parenting for boys makes

51:38

them more likely to be pro-social. Because

51:41

that's the vulnerability in each of those sexes.

51:44

Sorry, you're gonna

51:46

be like, I can't believe you're asking this,

51:48

but I'll say authoritarian authoritative. Yeah, authoritarian is

51:50

I'm the law, Judge Dredd.

51:52

Authoritarian, I'm the law. Authoritarian is

51:54

what we want before. Yeah,

51:57

authoritative is. This is the rules

51:59

we're grading. on but what do you think about them? I

52:01

can see you're struggling with it and it's okay to express

52:04

those emotions. I

52:06

take you on board what you're saying, you help

52:08

me make the call. Not

52:10

to the point of permissiveness though, where you get

52:12

out bedroom because you wanted it. Do

52:14

you know what I mean? So that's why it's the classic

52:16

case, it's beautiful. But there's so much

52:18

depth to this research, I wanted this one to be

52:21

like an overlay. We should

52:23

have done this in the beginning, like the

52:25

attachment ones and all that stuff. But I was just like,

52:27

man, it's so funny. I often think like, man, how many

52:29

more topics have I got? And the lowest

52:31

I ever get is like 12. And then I'm like, oh my

52:33

God, I'm going to run out of stuff in 12. And then

52:35

I'll be just writing to work and I'll be like, we haven't

52:37

done parenting stuff. And I'll just,

52:39

yeah, so this is a good example. The only

52:41

time I've actually had the movie before we finished

52:43

the last topic. So I'm usually

52:45

scrambling. But, but yeah, hopefully that's like

52:48

a helpful framework of what we should

52:50

be aiming for. We'll

52:52

talk about it in certain contexts, in certain

52:54

cultures and certain ages. There's a lot of

52:56

evidence now around adolescents in this and how

52:59

you respond to this. There's a lot of

53:01

evidence around different parents. So if one parent's

53:03

doing one and another parent's doing the other,

53:06

that's really classic. So co-parenting. Yeah, co-parenting.

53:08

There's a lot of evidence around parenting

53:10

styles in this. So it'd be

53:12

really cool to see what comes through. But as always, beautiful

53:15

reflections on our own childhood and what it was

53:17

like, or the bit we struggle with would be

53:19

amazing to come through from people and

53:22

give us your tips. Parents and professionals give

53:24

us your guidance because that's often the amazing

53:26

thing about the reflection tips. Yeah. And with

53:28

the guidance from people, just any like scripts

53:30

or lines you use, like I just find

53:32

that like prompts, when you're a parent, right?

53:35

I have a list of like prompts now

53:37

that like, if I can just get in

53:39

the mode, I can let

53:41

it flows out of me a bit more. And

53:44

that's why I don't often stop when you start your little

53:47

Spills. Spills, I suppose. A bit like you'll

53:49

be like, yeah, hey, you know, we've arrived

53:51

at this decision together, but you can have

53:53

your input. So what do you think about

53:55

it? But you know, I'm not changing. Like

53:58

I let you go. Yeah,

54:00

well like Barramund said you don't hem them in, you don't

54:02

box them in. We should never box

54:04

kids in in anything we're doing parenting, but this is

54:06

like a style, this is an approach, this is a

54:08

behaviour we use, this isn't regulation,

54:11

big feeling stuff, this is like how

54:13

do I come and how am I? And

54:16

we also remember this is getting, well I

54:18

promise I'll wrap up. We're

54:20

not trying to be a better parent than anyone else. We're

54:23

trying to be a better parent than we were yesterday. Do

54:26

you know what I mean? It's a comparative risk isn't it?

54:28

That you look around and you go, well that person was

54:31

able to respond better during attention than I was. That

54:34

person's really good at enforcing boundaries, been doing it

54:36

warmly. And we're kind of trying to be Caddy's

54:38

dad. Yeah, a little

54:40

bit. Yeah, they don't have a lot of them. You know

54:42

who used the perfect. The Diddly Table chat was good. Go

54:44

on. The perfect authoritative

54:46

parent. Best parent of any

54:49

movie we've ever done. Give me a

54:51

hint because I want to have a crack at it. Yeah okay. Hardcore

54:54

Trauma. I just want

54:56

to do this movie again. Hardcore Trauma.

55:00

Best example of mental health first aid I've ever

55:02

seen. Including all the content we decided. In

55:05

other movies he does that we haven't done yet. One

55:08

of the movies we did really early on. This

55:10

woman is phenomenal. She's the

55:13

archetypal. Oh, Ripley in Alien.

55:15

Yeah, the way she is with Newt.

55:17

With Newt where's trauma? Beautiful. You

55:19

are safe because I'm in control and I

55:21

have the power but I'm sensitive to your needs. Ripley.

55:25

Yeah, she's phenomenal. She's amazing. I wish

55:27

we could use the movie. We could

55:29

go. If it was terminated too I

55:31

wish we could go back to that. We can revisit. That

55:34

was early days. We gathered around a

55:36

mobile phone. Yeah, that's true. And we

55:38

should talk as well about the vulnerabilities

55:40

in us falling into the unhealthy styles.

55:43

And like for me

55:45

that's my mental health. I'm

55:47

more vulnerable when I'm stressed. And you know

55:49

that's why. That's why like if this podcast

55:51

only helps one person go and see a

55:53

therapist it's all been worth it. Because

55:56

that's like that's my vulnerability. Like

55:59

you say Billy. You press publish on that

56:01

podcast and it's not until you get the first

56:03

comment or reaction. Oh yeah, that first time. And

56:06

that is an insecurity in me but I just, I

56:08

wait for one person. Just one

56:10

person goes like, that app was really helpful.

56:13

And I'm like, sweet, it was worth it. So

56:16

thank you to those people. The feedback we get

56:18

is phenomenal. And Terri's like seeing it now because she's

56:20

looking at it and she's like, oh my God. And

56:22

I often think like you and all the other people

56:25

that make this work for free, I'm the

56:28

one that reads all the stuff and gets all the affirmation.

56:30

But I try and bring some of it to the reflective

56:32

episode so that everyone who's a part

56:34

of PCP can hear what we're doing. And it's

56:36

been, I'll pick some stuff because there's been some

56:38

amazing stuff coming through about people saying this is

56:41

changing lives, which is amazing for us. Because I'm just

56:44

trying to think about how I can get

56:46

the stuff I do in clinic out early to kids and

56:48

you're genuinely coming here to be the best parent you

56:50

can. Try on Billy. Yep,

56:52

you're succeeding. You're succeeding massively at it.

56:55

We'll see. Time will tell. But

56:58

we'll figure it out

57:00

together as well. Awesome, Billy. I

57:02

think you've basically, we've covered off everything around what

57:04

we want from people. We want their advice. We

57:06

want their tips. We want their questions. We want

57:08

them complex, long, short. Get involved in the stories

57:10

as you see them in the coming days. We

57:12

love that sort of stuff. It makes part two

57:15

and sometimes part three. I feel like I'm getting

57:17

a bit in this one, Billy. This feels like

57:19

a long one. I like it already. We

57:22

get a lot of that. So that's what we welcome.

57:24

So guys, we hope you enjoyed this episode and we

57:26

look forward to getting your feedback through the coming weeks.

57:28

Have a great one. Thanks, man. Hey!

57:33

Let your mother smell that beer on your breath. She'll take it out on me. I

57:39

didn't want to see you again for the rest of my

57:41

whole life. I didn't want to see anybody else like you.

57:45

Who is your daddy and what does

57:47

he do? Just

57:50

use your best judgment to be trusted.