0:01

We took it all we brought

0:03

them to on live. And

0:06

and last night, Emperor Hot

0:08

and Ice cold the range

0:11

of the earth. We make

0:13

this colors. Car

0:16

didn't have worked on box we

0:18

did not see we could not

0:21

but she did the a right

0:23

of high pick a. Similar

0:25

starker: How play. To. Play.

0:28

It now with game pass. Makes.

0:35

It Illegal. I don't think that Trump's

0:38

lawyers ever quite said it that clearly.

0:46

I thank you for check it

0:48

out. fill in the blanks again.

0:51

I appreciate you sharing the episodes

0:53

and for your feedback. And yes,

0:55

I do read your comment so

0:57

keep them coming. Today Something really

1:00

different. We're obviously digging deep into

1:02

the aspect of Donald Trump's trial

1:04

and I have someone here that

1:07

have respected for a long, long

1:09

time. I consider him a really

1:11

good friend. He has left an

1:14

indelible mark on. Litigation.

1:17

In the United States, I'm talking about

1:19

Rod Feel and his former litigator from

1:21

Baker Botts. A really renowned

1:23

law firm. He graduated cum laude

1:25

from Duke University School of Law.

1:28

He's been recognized as one of

1:30

the best lawyers and Dallas. Eleven

1:33

times. From. Twenty Eleven

1:35

to Twenty Twenty One and was

1:37

named to D Magazines Best Lawyers

1:39

Hall of Fame and Twenty Twenty

1:41

Two. Rod. Has

1:43

a brilliant legal mind and

1:45

an unwavering commitment to justice.

1:48

When. I say this is something really different.

1:50

Rod. Is going to be.

1:53

An expert on Dr. Phil prime

1:55

time. Taking. A. Hard.

1:58

Look at what's happened. In this.

2:02

Trump Trial is I'm referring to

2:04

it. And when I

2:06

prepare for these and have top

2:08

level experts I like to sit

2:10

down with them ahead of time

2:12

and left him educate me. About.

2:15

What they know and.

2:18

At. Least prepare me enough to be

2:20

able to ask intelligent questions. Because

2:22

this is so complex and there's

2:25

so much going on. I

2:27

decided to just record this

2:29

working session. So. I'm pulling

2:31

back the curtain. And letting

2:33

you guys listen in, look

2:36

in and see what's going

2:38

on. In this preparatory

2:40

session for. A.

2:42

Really important. Episode.

2:45

Of Doctor Phil Prime time. Where.

2:48

I'm sitting down and talking

2:50

though Rod Zealand and getting.

2:53

Educated about what he thinks about what

2:55

happened in his trial. He's

2:57

a lawyer I'm not. My expertise is

2:59

in the jury part of this. Though.

3:02

He's gonna learn me up about what's

3:04

going on, right? right? As a big

3:06

job. Now give it not this. Yeah,

3:08

I'm sure you will. So you been

3:11

following this trial pretty close along the

3:13

way. Obviously you have been in the

3:15

courtroom. we didn't have cameras in a

3:17

court. First. Give

3:20

me your ten thousand foot view of

3:23

the saying what? what's your feeling of

3:25

it should this have happened at all.

3:28

Was. This a legitimate trial. Was

3:30

it a travesty as I've referred

3:33

to it? What's. Your gut

3:35

level take on this. The

3:37

gays should not have been filed. It

3:40

was filed as I think everybody

3:42

knows by now, but by a

3:44

district attorney who. Ran. For

3:46

office and one promising among other things

3:49

to get trump. He. Then passed

3:51

on this very case. Took a lot

3:53

of heat for doing so. And.

3:55

When Letitia James began to get

3:57

a little. Publicity: Sega for

4:00

going after Trump. He. Did a

4:02

one eighty and decided to file. This.

4:04

Case. The just as

4:06

a case is that. Trump.

4:09

Paid. Hush money and that was a crime

4:11

and then he tried to cover it up.

4:14

That's. The hard as a case and as a

4:16

matter of large, wrong. As.

4:18

Money will. Never. Is.

4:22

A crime and wasn't this time

4:24

for. Really? Compelling

4:26

reasons and those are. That.

4:29

This woman. Paid. To

4:31

keep her secret. Had. No

4:33

duty to tell it. She. Had every right

4:35

to sell it. She. Had every right to

4:38

tell it or sell it. She chose to sell

4:40

it. They. Enter to keep it quiet

4:42

was not a crime. And. If

4:44

the judge had recognized this. He.

4:47

Would dismiss the case right out of box.

4:49

Or it would just look at this from.

4:52

Somebody. Who doesn't know anything about the

4:54

law? Somebody. This just. Looking. At

4:56

is purely from allay perspective

4:58

when you say hush money.

5:01

That. Sounds. Serious.

5:04

Threat Minutes that sounds

5:06

utter know smarmy, Shady.

5:09

It. Sounds illegal. Unless

5:11

a big part of the problem that.

5:14

Trump. Had once he was faced with this

5:16

case. Ah, There was

5:18

an allegation that he had. Sex.

5:20

With a porn star. He

5:23

denied it. Ah, there was an

5:25

allegation that he paid or not to tell

5:27

about sex with him. He

5:29

denied painter he said somebody else.

5:33

Was responsible for play in are needed

5:35

even know it had happened so. When.

5:37

You're in a case and you have drawn

5:39

those lines in the sand as he did.

5:42

I didn't do it and I entire and

5:44

I didn't know she got paid. Juri.

5:48

When. It hears that story is

5:50

gonna raises eyebrows so. He.

5:52

Eta my to high heel for

5:54

himself to climb. My. Beginning

5:56

this case denying something that

5:58

most people would say. No,

6:00

no, but dead. Yeah. This is

6:03

like the dog bad analogy, right? Not.

6:05

My dog he assists you get

6:08

built it a bigger beer. It

6:10

was my dog. He said

6:12

I didn't have sex with this woman.

6:15

And. I didn't payer. To

6:18

not say I had sex with

6:20

somebody Did. Which. Is

6:22

fortunate. But. It wasn't me

6:24

and by the way I then did pay

6:27

him back to three times what he bite

6:29

her here. For. Whatever

6:31

reason, So. It

6:33

doesn't pass the smell test, but. Whether.

6:36

He did or didn't have sex with her.

6:39

Is have no legal import whatsoever Is

6:41

the point? where do you like that

6:43

factor where the don't. Pay.

6:46

In such money. To. Somebody

6:48

to not say something that

6:50

would reflect poorly on you.

6:54

Is not illegal. Correct.

6:57

It is not a is not illegal. When.

6:59

It is done by political candidate either and

7:01

that was where they tried to catch him.

7:04

And call him. Say

7:06

that he was committing election fraud because

7:08

he was running for office trying to

7:10

silence someone who had something bad to

7:12

say about him. but. Everyone

7:14

who's ever run for office. Has.

7:17

Gotten together with his supporters and

7:19

said look. There's some good

7:21

news. less less play that up. and there's

7:24

some bad news. Let's try to keep the

7:26

spotlight off that list. deflect it, less hope

7:28

it doesn't come out. There's nothing wrong with

7:30

that. Every candidate does it. Okay,

7:33

so let me break that down and I

7:35

know I'm grill and down on is because

7:37

I'm looking at this from a jury standpoint.

7:39

What is the jury entitled to hear? What?

7:42

They do here. Needs

7:44

to be appropriate to the

7:47

case. Not prejudicial, It.

7:49

Needs to be something they're entitled

7:51

here. They. Need to hear everything.

7:53

They're entitled here and nothing they're not

7:55

entitled to here. And it

7:57

needs to be in the right context.

8:00

Because. The jury. If we

8:02

believe that the jury system works. Then.

8:05

They're not supposed to listen to

8:07

the radio, watch television, read the

8:10

newspaper. They're They're supposed to only

8:12

judge this based on was presented

8:14

in the courtroom so nothing should

8:17

be presented that is outside the

8:19

definitions. Of the law

8:21

and what is admissible in what's

8:23

not admissible. So you're telling us.

8:26

That. From a legal standpoint. A.

8:28

Candidate has no duty.

8:32

To. Disclose. Something.

8:35

That's negative about themselves.

8:38

Under election law, common law,

8:40

any other it they have

8:42

no duty. To. Be

8:44

forthcoming about something this negative

8:46

about them. To. The public

8:49

correct, nor did she have a duty to

8:51

tell a tale. She didn't have a duty

8:53

and he didn't have a duty. Okay,

8:55

They didn't violate a duty by

8:57

withholding this information from the public.

8:59

So. She has a right shin have a

9:02

duty to tell it. But. She has

9:04

a right to tell it if she wants to. See.

9:06

Has a right or

9:08

somebody. On

9:10

his team. Or.

9:13

A friend. Has a

9:15

right to go to her and say. Weird.

9:18

Rather you not talk about this. Fan.

9:21

Were willing to compensate you if you

9:23

won't. In this

9:25

get, that's true and in this case

9:28

she had hired a lawyer. To.

9:31

Add. Try to negotiate a

9:33

deal with Trump. She believed he

9:35

was vulnerable running for office. She

9:37

had a story detail and she

9:39

was the one who initiated the

9:41

discussion. About. Whether. She

9:43

should be paid or should go public.

9:46

Ah and Trump responded as i

9:48

think. Many. Candidates would and

9:50

as was entirely legal by saying i

9:52

don't want you to tell him that

9:55

tail. At. It And

9:57

and she didn't. Sell it

9:59

as. A missed a misguided some

10:01

near she didn't talk to trump. Her.

10:03

Lawyer Talk To Trump's lawyer. Trump was

10:06

never in that loop, but that was

10:08

the. Essence of it. Her

10:10

lawyer said to Trump's lawyer i got a story. Will

10:12

you pay me not to tell him. That

10:14

lawyer said yes, Okay, And

10:17

there's nothing wrong with that. It's not.

10:19

It's not a crime hear something, it's

10:22

hard to sell, but it's it's. Got.

10:25

To be. Said.

10:27

Voters. Don't have a right.

10:30

To. Know what you're skeletons

10:32

are? And. If you can keep

10:34

your skeletons hidden as a candidate. You're.

10:37

Not, You're not. Committing. A

10:39

crime. You. Can criticize

10:41

someone's morality for. Having

10:45

had the skeletons in his calls

10:47

and done whatever it was it

10:49

put those skills hims in his

10:51

closet but trump. Has

10:53

been convicted, For.

10:56

Having those skeletons in pain. To.

10:59

Keep them quiet. We.

11:04

Brought. A.

11:26

Similar. Soccer help lead

11:28

play it now with game

11:30

pass. Some.

11:33

He was is no the best way

11:35

for you as a weight based on you

11:37

with honesty and look it's own hands perfectly

11:39

placed on the wheel not like. Advancing

11:42

lighting, I'm

11:46

so. Glad

11:49

and off the only thing every based

11:51

on you. Want

11:54

to be states have to turn things into since reading that doesn't

11:56

seem very and infancy. To read could increase it. He was

11:58

driving. All six iron casualties or something. The

12:00

Phillies: Northwick, Illinois. Okay, here's a

12:02

thing and we're talking about. Morality.

12:06

And legality. And those aren't always

12:08

the same thing. That. Sometimes they

12:10

are sometimes or not. And

12:13

here I'm asking about the legality of

12:15

it. It's not illegal

12:17

for him. To.

12:19

Not tail. It's not

12:22

illegal. For. Her

12:24

to accept money. To. Not

12:26

tail. Is not illegal

12:28

for someone in his camp. To.

12:31

Pay. For to not

12:33

tail. That's not a illegal. In

12:36

it's not or not a illegal, it

12:38

is not election fraud. Which. Is

12:40

the case that the prosecutors told

12:42

the jury described the jury. This.

12:45

Was election fraud they said okay

12:47

and how is it election fraud?

12:49

What's their theory that the the

12:51

prosecution's argument was. That.

12:55

The. Hush money itself was

12:57

a crime. They. Just.

13:00

Flat said that it was. An

13:03

that when Trump. In.

13:05

Effect. Paid

13:07

black to keep it. A

13:09

secret. He violated New

13:12

York's election law. Which.

13:15

Makes it. A

13:17

crime. To. From.

13:21

To use an unlawful act to promote.

13:24

Somebodies, Election. So they had to

13:26

start by saying okay, that was an unlawful

13:28

act painter. And. New York Election

13:30

Law. Made. That.

13:32

That act a crime because you

13:35

did it to promote Trump's election.

13:38

Then. They. Tied. It all

13:40

together by saying and then you covered

13:42

it up with business records that miss

13:45

described it. And that business

13:47

records. Was

13:49

used. To conceal the

13:52

fact that you had committed this election

13:54

fraud crime. Was. It

13:56

election fraud. It. Was not

13:58

election fraud because the act. That they

14:00

had to have to make it

14:03

illegal was playing hush money, which

14:05

is legal. How did they make

14:07

the jump from doing a legal

14:09

act, becoming an election fraud. Mainly.

14:12

By pointing to the evidence of

14:14

the lengths to which Cohen himself.

14:17

And Trump's organization went.

14:20

To. To

14:22

try to hide what had happened

14:24

in the payment of stormy. There

14:27

were a lot of documents that

14:29

Cohen generated. Dead. Were

14:32

were unnecessary unless he was trying to

14:34

hide it. Trump's.

14:37

Own people, Both.

14:41

To the payment as a legal expanse

14:43

and people have argued that know it

14:46

wasn't that it was us money. Okay,

14:48

so if they had

14:51

these entries, Covering.

14:54

Up. A legal

14:57

act. What's. The problem. I

15:00

don't think that this translators ever

15:02

quite said it that clearly. If

15:05

the act is legal, cover it up

15:07

can't be illegal. It's. That

15:09

simple. It

15:12

what might have been foolish to cover it up

15:14

just as it might have been foolish to do.

15:16

Whatever it was, it led to the story. But

15:19

as. You said. This was

15:21

a criminal case. And it

15:23

somehow went off on the morality of

15:25

what was going on. And

15:27

I can see how Juri would be confused by

15:29

that. Okay, so if I

15:31

go in a store and buy

15:33

something, whatever it is Pure Sox.

15:36

Pay. The money I guess, the receipt

15:38

or own the socks and the and

15:40

I go through a lot of machinations

15:43

to cover up having bought those socks.

15:46

Does. Buying those socks become illegal.

15:49

Well. On prosecutors theory, Yes, But.

15:52

I think we might could come up with a

15:54

better analogy. To most of

15:56

voice well I'm abroad to

15:58

keep this g rated the

16:00

year, but the act was

16:02

not illegal. I'm trying to

16:04

figure out how covering up something

16:07

that wasn't illegal. Makes.

16:09

It illegal. If. You're

16:11

You're absolutely right. It doesn't, But what

16:13

the state argued was that. Trump

16:16

created business records that miss

16:18

described what had happened. Trump.

16:21

Or his people created those records.

16:24

And. There's a statute in New York that

16:26

the only one that he was charged with

16:28

violating. Which. Makes it

16:31

a crime to falsify business

16:33

records for the purpose of

16:35

concealing or committee in another

16:37

crime. So. They said that.

16:40

When. Trump. Or.

16:42

His people miss described the

16:44

payment. For. Silence.

16:48

They were violating this business

16:50

records statute. That.

16:52

Was the argument in that that

16:55

argument prevailed. The. So

16:57

they said that what

16:59

he did. Was.

17:01

He violated a business records

17:04

statute with with the with

17:06

the documentation. Of his

17:09

his payment. That

17:11

was reimbursing the payment to stormy.

17:14

With it which was legal. Which.

17:16

Was legal. Day. And Stormy was

17:18

legal. But. When his

17:21

lawyer, Cohen did that, reimbursing Cohen for

17:23

pain, Stormy was legal. Okay, we've got

17:25

people's Evans thirty Five and thirty six

17:28

up here in the screen. And

17:30

this is showing what

17:33

they put up that

17:35

cupboard. His reimbursement. Okay,

17:37

and he was reimbursed.

17:39

For. In two thousand hours. Yeah,

17:42

think it got to for twenty or four

17:44

thirty somehow. but. Okay,

17:46

So. Got to for twenty. We've.

17:49

Got have a bonus than one

17:51

hundred eighty hundred ninety. This looks

17:53

like for twenty down there euro

17:56

use for twenty debate. about twelve

17:58

thirty five thousand dollars. Months.

18:01

That's the right number? correct? That.

18:03

Is how much. They agreed

18:05

to pay Cohen. A

18:08

After the election? Okay, two

18:10

thousand and seventeen? Okay. Let.

18:12

Me Just stop and like this. Important.

18:15

Point: This is an election fraud case.

18:18

That's how the prosecutors described it right.

18:20

This is election fraud. Clear and simple

18:22

I said in the opening statement. But.

18:24

All of this everything Trump did

18:27

happened after the election from people,

18:29

Trump's people, This. All happened

18:31

after lessons his his his January

18:33

Twenty seventeen start thirty five thousand

18:35

dollars a month. January.

18:37

Twenty Seven T. The.

18:39

Election was in twenty sixteen. He

18:41

can't have election fraud after the

18:44

election. so this happened after the

18:46

election. These. Business records the

18:48

say yes got him on for

18:50

election fraud. Happened.

18:52

After the election? Yes, how can

18:54

it be election fraud? Nothing.

18:57

That happens after the election could be

18:59

election fraud, including that. Okay,

19:02

Also, there's been a big

19:04

slap about. The. Judge said

19:06

it didn't have to be. Unanimous.

19:10

That's. How you interpret it. He did have to

19:12

be twelve, though. But what he

19:15

was saying is you didn't have

19:17

to be unanimous about what the

19:19

second crime was. They. Did

19:21

have to be twelve. The decision have to be

19:23

to elbow on what's the second crime was it

19:25

could be for for this four percent, most for

19:27

for something else. I've

19:29

never heard of their but apparently a New York. That

19:32

is allowable is that right as think there's

19:34

a big debate that that I think that's

19:36

gonna be a point on appeal. Because

19:39

New York, like every other state, and

19:41

like every Federal court, requires juri in

19:43

unanimity in a criminal case. You.

19:45

Get have a tend to verdict like we

19:47

have in Texas state court cases. You gotta

19:49

have all twelve. And if you

19:52

don't, you have a hung jury. Ah

19:54

so. The. Issue was.

19:57

Whether. If. You say is

19:59

all too have you think this guy

20:01

did something wrong but you don't agree

20:03

about. What? It was that he

20:05

did wrong. Can. You can Him and

20:08

the judge said yes, you can. And.

20:11

I don't know the how that will ultimately

20:13

be answered. That my instinct is that wrong.

20:15

That. They. All had to agree

20:17

on at least one of the three. Allegedly.

20:21

A criminal second acts.

20:24

In order to convict him. It would

20:26

be. Here's a simple. Way

20:30

to look at. Let's suppose somebody is

20:32

arrested for. And tried. For.

20:35

Murder and bank robbery and the

20:37

Jury. says.

20:40

We. Don't know which one of these he did that.

20:42

he did one of i'm guilty. I.

20:44

Don't think. That that.

20:47

Birds. Would result in a in

20:49

a center seen. I think that that

20:51

would be I'm a mistrial. So.

20:54

You think the I'm not specifying

20:56

the second crime. Could. Be

20:58

a point of appeal. I do.

21:01

And. The judge to

21:04

avoid the possibility of. This

21:07

confusion did not. Ask.

21:09

The jury special question Special and

21:12

derogatory. Or do twelve of

21:14

you say that. That

21:16

Trump intended to violate the Federal Election.

21:18

Cody Twelve of you think he intended

21:21

to violate New York. Election.

21:23

Law. Do twelve of you say he intended

21:25

violate the federal tax laws? He.

21:27

Did not ask that so. We're.

21:29

Left. Without. Knowing. Whether.

21:32

Twelve of them agreed that he did any

21:34

of those crimes. Okay,

21:36

so. What? Was the second

21:38

crime that they can do to the moon. Well.

21:41

I got. it's a choice. Of

21:44

of three things. One.

21:46

Was that he violated

21:48

New York. Election Law.

21:51

By. Unlawfully

21:53

Bay and Stormy. To.

21:55

Promote Trump's election. Hookers.

21:58

Of Barley New York's Works in Law. Yes,

22:01

Okay, second one was violating

22:03

Federal election law. By.

22:07

Not. Reporting. The.

22:09

Time. To. Stormy or

22:12

to Cohen and it wasn't clear

22:14

of which they were. Same as

22:16

a campaign expands. The

22:18

government said that this when

22:20

you played stormy are reimbursed

22:22

Cohen. That was a campaign

22:24

experience. And under federal law

22:26

you have to report campaign expenses.

22:29

There. Was and still is a big

22:31

argument about whether as a matter of

22:34

love playing a porn star. To

22:36

Not say I had sex with that

22:38

guy. Was. A personal experience

22:41

on reportable or a campaign expanse

22:43

just like. Paying.

22:45

For Tv ads are playing. Your

22:47

staff. And states

22:49

are you was Yeah, that's just like

22:51

playing staff. Diane. A

22:54

porn star. That

22:57

argument should not have one, but it did in

22:59

the third. Choice. That. The.

23:02

Judge gave the jury in the charge.

23:04

Was. That.

23:07

Trump violated the Federal tax laws and

23:09

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Podcast. The Federal tax

24:16

law violation. Was. Said to

24:18

be. Giving. Cohen a

24:20

Ten Ninety Nine that a tax form

24:22

that says. To the recipient,

24:25

you've received this much income. And

24:27

government get a copy of in the government knows that

24:29

he has to pay tax on that. So.

24:32

The. Violation was said to

24:34

be. A. Hundred thirty thousand

24:36

dollars of the amount that. Trump.

24:39

Paid to Cohen was just to reimburse

24:41

him. For. The amount he died

24:43

to stormy which was a hundred and thirty thousand

24:46

dollars. But. Trump's organization

24:48

gave. A Going to

24:50

Ninety Nine for that hundred and thirty

24:53

thousand dollars. And. Co unpaid taxes

24:55

on it so Cohen ended up. Paying.

24:58

More taxes then he owed. Because.

25:00

He didn't know taxes own that hundred and thirty

25:02

thousand dollars, but once he got a ten ninety

25:04

nine, he had to pay taxes on it. So.

25:07

The crime was you gave. Cohen.

25:10

A false Ten Ninety Nine trade in his

25:12

income. Something that was an income. It resulted

25:14

in Cohen's over. His

25:16

taxes. The government is better off for it, but

25:18

you are a criminal. Because.

25:20

That day And Ninety Nine was sake.

25:23

So. If they get him on,

25:25

their one is for causing someone to

25:27

pay too much tax. Yes, but

25:29

the are there are you in

25:31

his for lion about how much

25:33

you income that guy head. Got

25:36

it. So if we back up

25:38

and say. Paying.

25:40

Hush money is not a crime. Then.

25:45

How does this case ever? Get

25:48

out as a starting box. How does it

25:50

ever go? Day. One it is

25:52

stillborn. He. Was no Case

25:54

is no case. Or. Let

25:56

me ask you is. Harvey Weinstein

25:59

walked out. A New

26:01

York Prison. Recently.

26:04

Because they said.

26:07

References: Were made in that

26:10

case. About three

26:12

women. That were

26:14

not part of that case. There.

26:17

Were six women. One.

26:19

Two and three were part of the case for

26:21

five and six were not part of the case.

26:23

But. For five and six evidence about four,

26:26

five and six were allowed into the case.

26:29

And. They said that. Was.

26:31

Prejudicial. Should.

26:33

Not have been allowed in and

26:35

so. They. Had to declare

26:37

a mistrial. And vacate. That.

26:41

Verdict: Correct the the granted a

26:43

new trial. Ah yeah it it to

26:46

be clear he was on trial for

26:48

having. Raped and let accused

26:50

of raping three women. Did.

26:53

The judge let the prosecution introduce

26:55

the testimony of three other women.

26:58

That. They got right to. And.

27:01

Told that they told Weinstein

27:03

the judge did. That.

27:06

If you. Take the stand

27:08

on gonna let them. The. Prosecutor

27:10

cross examined you about

27:12

every complaint. That. Anyone

27:14

has ever made about sexual abuse by

27:17

use of Weinstein didn't take the stand.

27:20

The. Court of Appeals said. He. There

27:22

was no basis for either

27:24

admitting the testimony of those

27:26

three women. Who were not

27:28

in the trial. Accusing him

27:31

of rape. Or. For threatening

27:33

him that if he takes the

27:35

stand to defend himself. They're.

27:37

Gonna. Let. The prosecutors got

27:39

him with a bunch of other

27:41

irrelevant stuff. So. There's a

27:44

there's a rule beverage that says when.

27:46

The. Probe devalue is substantially outweighed

27:48

by the prejudicial, unfair, prejudicial

27:51

effect of evidence it cannot

27:53

come in. And so

27:55

that. Court. Of Appeals reversed

27:57

the. The. Case and sit back for

27:59

a new. Wow, here's a a point to

28:01

bear in mind about this. When you gonna

28:03

judge, run in with you. As

28:06

those lawyers did and Harvey Weinstein case

28:08

and as these lot prosecutors did in

28:10

Trump's case. You gotta be careful what

28:12

you ask far because you're probably gonna

28:15

get it. And if you ask

28:17

for more than you're entitled to, You. Just.

28:20

Created. A reversible error

28:22

and the case will be reversed. What?

28:25

Happened here though is that these

28:27

prosecutors don't care. They. Wanted.

28:29

In my view, this is just my

28:31

opinion. They wanted a judgment. They wanted

28:33

a conviction. They. Don't care if

28:35

they get reverse. I got an election coming up

28:38

and saying get a conviction before the election. day

28:41

when if he gets reversed there after

28:43

so what? they don't care. So.

28:46

This judge. Marshawn.

28:50

Worn. Trump. That if

28:53

he testifies. He. Can

28:55

be cross examined about aging

28:57

zero. Defamation. And

28:59

socialists all birds. About

29:02

breaching Marshawn to gag order.

29:06

Out about getting here for four

29:08

hundred and fifty million dollars in

29:10

the Attorney General's Zibel case. For.

29:13

So you can take the stand if you want,

29:15

but I'm allowing them. To.

29:18

Cross. Examine you about.

29:21

using. Girls. Defamation

29:23

and Social Sobered. It's about a

29:25

whole bunch of stuff that has

29:27

nothing to do with this case

29:29

but is really stinky. That's not

29:31

probity. Prove anything concerning this case

29:34

is not properties of violating Business

29:36

Records Act. Is. Yes,

29:38

so. Allegedly assaulting

29:40

someone in a dressing room in a

29:43

department store. What does that have to

29:45

do with business records? Him: As

29:48

I think it's right, so it's not

29:50

probity eve of anything concerning this case

29:52

for the jury to hear. But

29:54

it certainly is prejudicial. In

29:58

saying you're not a nice guy, Hi.

30:01

You're. Not a good person and the you've

30:03

had these findings against you. So

30:05

says if you take to stay in the real

30:08

at them cross examine you about all this stuff.

30:10

And when that happened in the

30:12

Harvey Weinstein case, it got thrown

30:14

out and set for a new

30:16

trial. Yes, I. Actually

30:19

thought. When. He let

30:21

that evidence and in Trump's case, That.

30:24

And. And we didn't Soon

30:27

thereafter had Harvey Weinstein. so. Reversal

30:29

which came from the highest court in New York,

30:31

the top court. I. Thought

30:33

we would see a motion for mistrial. In.

30:36

Trump's case right then. I'm

30:38

surprised that we didn't but it will be a point.

30:40

On to you. Why? Do you suppose

30:43

they did move from his trial? Is that

30:45

point? They have the. Confused. Me

30:47

with a lot of their. Strategy.

30:49

And tactics? I don't know. They

30:51

got that instruction from a judge if you.

30:55

Testify you me cross examined about

30:57

his. They lady and.

31:00

The testimony of David Parker,

31:04

Who. Was and ledge coconspirators.

31:07

Saying. That he had made. A

31:09

deal. A. Non prosecution

31:12

deal. On the catch

31:14

and kill. They

31:16

lead in. That.

31:19

Cohen's. Had

31:21

pled guilty. Alleged

31:23

co conspirator was Trump. And.

31:26

Said we're not gonna let this in.

31:29

In any way to imply. That.

31:32

Trump is guilty as only

31:34

for context. But

31:37

then. In closing

31:39

argument. Stained glass

31:42

said. Cohen. Got.

31:45

Orders. From Trump. Directly.

31:50

About. The very thing that. They

31:54

are alleging he did which was

31:56

not in evidence. How

31:59

can they live that in? In

32:02

front of the jury. And

32:04

that not be prejudicial. To.

32:06

The defendant. I

32:08

think this is the worst

32:10

evidentiary ruling that the judge

32:13

made in the most obvious

32:15

grounds are reversal. It.

32:17

Is a little bit different from your description

32:20

of it. The The. Indictment

32:22

did not charge a

32:24

conspiracy. There were no

32:26

coconspirators. Ah, so

32:28

there's even less reason to

32:30

suggest that evidence about. The.

32:33

Wrong doing of Packer or

32:35

Cohen. They're guilty pleas and

32:37

non prosecution agreement. There's

32:40

less reason to let that and then

32:42

if they were coconspirators, but the law

32:44

is settled. In criminal cases

32:46

that. The. Plea of guilty by.

32:49

One. Person. Is.

32:51

Inadmissible. Against

32:53

the defendant at trial and

32:56

reason for that is. That.

32:58

It is so unfairly prejudicial. Well

33:00

as he pled guilty. Do it.

33:02

This guy the same saying. He.

33:04

Must be guilty to what?

33:07

How do you describe him

33:09

as not coconspirators hour? When

33:11

designers or his accomplices, accomplices.

33:13

Okay, accomplices and and so.

33:16

Trump I'm sure did object. To

33:19

the admission the missing of. Cohen's.

33:22

Guilty plea. But. It wasn't just

33:24

that they let it in, they

33:27

questioned him about it and and

33:29

Packer to, did you plead guilty

33:31

yes of election fraud? For. What

33:33

for? Play and stormy? Yes! I pled

33:35

guilty to that. That was a crime I was. Guilty

33:37

of it. Those and. A. Significant exchange

33:40

between the prosecutor and co

33:42

and who played up the

33:44

significance. Of of this guilty

33:46

plea. And. The prosecutor

33:48

persuaded the judge to

33:50

let this in. With.

33:53

An argument that makes no sense at

33:55

all. It is

33:57

settled that if you're convicted of a crime and

33:59

a. The players a conviction,

34:02

It is admissible against you.

34:05

By. Someone who is attacking

34:07

your credibility. If. You

34:09

commit a crime and I want to tear you

34:11

up on wanna keep the jury from believe in

34:13

you I can put that crime and evidence. But.

34:16

This time the state was saying. Cohen.

34:19

Is a believable guy. We want the jury to

34:21

believe him, but we want to attack his credibility

34:23

with this plea of guilty to Licks and fraud

34:25

and the judge it okay. But.

34:28

Only Trump had the right to make that

34:30

argument that you can't put this in. You

34:33

can put this into attack Cohen's credibility

34:35

and from didn't fumbles on the opposite

34:38

side and yet it. Here's game And

34:40

in closing argument as you said, That.

34:43

Prosecutors went back to it and

34:45

said look, we're say and Trump

34:47

intended to commit. A lot of.

34:50

A violation of the Federal Election Laws

34:52

and Co and pled guilty to it.

34:56

That was wrong. And it. Could. Clearly

34:58

have driven the verdict that that

35:00

will get the case reverse all

35:03

by itself. Sunglasses and I quote

35:05

is established fact that Michael Cohen

35:07

committed Federal Election law violations on

35:09

direct orders from Donald Trump. Yeah,

35:12

know the judge had served as

35:14

Michael Cohen. Please only use for

35:17

context not to imply Donald Trump

35:19

guilt any overrule the objection the

35:21

on any overruled objection earlier. It's

35:24

puzzling. That's the nicest way I can

35:26

put it. In

35:28

Smith's is mostly I've ever heard you put

35:30

something like that. Stained.

35:32

Glass said Hicks cried because

35:34

she knew she had destroyed

35:37

Donald Trump's defense. I

35:39

can find nowhere in the evidence

35:42

that Hicks said i'm crying because

35:44

I know I destroyed Donald Trump's

35:46

defense. Is it not

35:48

true that you cannot argue facts not

35:50

in evidence on closing argument? You.

35:53

You can't Now I will say this

35:55

about that. You can draw inferences. You.

35:58

Can say you saw a cry. Here

36:01

is. The. Best the best.

36:03

The reason. That. You can

36:05

come up with for her cry. I'm not as

36:07

offended by that one. Because. I

36:10

say the prosecutor was free to

36:12

say. This. Is why she cried

36:14

and from side to present know she

36:16

was crying because she. Didn't. Think

36:18

Trump done anything wrong in a prosecutors were trying

36:21

to use her to put Trump in jail. But.

36:23

They can't say that because it New

36:25

York. The prosecutors go

36:27

last, that's that was the.

36:30

Worst. Part of the procedure and

36:32

apparently. There's. No. There's

36:34

no complaining about that, but. The

36:37

prosecutor said everything you've read after

36:39

the defense said. Closed.

36:42

And there was nothing. no way for the

36:44

defense to come back say, well, that's bullshit.

36:47

The. Chances are done to Light Loop they said

36:49

what they said so they can get up

36:51

saying that just hangs out there are my

36:53

legs stand up an object during closing right?

36:56

As not good form below your students

36:58

hand and you know. Who

37:01

we don't know exactly what those lawyers

37:03

did did try to stop some of

37:05

what was happening what they said. Actually,

37:07

at least I don't but you can.

37:10

You can start making speaking objections and

37:12

that's where instead of saying. That's

37:14

not an evident your honor. You say your honor

37:17

that he knows good and well that. That.

37:19

Is not an average debt is is wild guess

37:21

and he's wrong. I'm bad at what she really

37:23

was crying about was. Mean. I

37:25

could have done that and the judge would

37:27

slap them down and the jury would have

37:29

seen the judge slap i'm down and it

37:31

probably would have been ineffective. So.

37:33

They were between Iraq and Hard Place. They

37:36

trump's lawyers. If. You would

37:38

talk about. Hornbook Law

37:40

Or Black Letter Law? What does

37:42

that mean? It is

37:44

law that is settled on that. No

37:47

lawyer know judge should dispute. It's.

37:50

Been settled for a long time. Case.

37:52

Law. Case. Law. Interpretation

37:55

Statutes. Examples

37:57

would be that. Guilt most

37:59

the proven beyond reasonable doubt. Negligence.

38:02

His failure to use ordinary kansas

38:05

things that, yes, Everybody

38:07

knows it. Yes, there were

38:09

hornbook rules violated here. And.

38:12

What have we talked about? that?

38:14

If. A has a plea of

38:16

guilty. It's. Inadmissible interrelated

38:19

criminal case against Be and

38:21

that was violated here. Correct.

38:24

And. It was violated here. Because

38:26

Cohen's. Guilty. Plea came

38:28

in, he took the stand.

38:31

Confirmed it over and over. And.

38:35

A second one is evidence who's

38:37

unfair. Prejudice. Outweighs

38:39

the property value. Is.

38:41

Inadmissible. That

38:43

was violated. As well.

38:46

Is. That. Something that will

38:48

be reversible error and your opinion. Yes,

38:52

After the election. Year

38:54

after the election. Threatening.

38:56

Someone with what they can be

38:59

cross examined. On. Is.

39:03

A third example. If

39:06

these things are all black letter, live

39:08

in. These are Hornbook. Was.

39:10

The judge in on this or

39:12

what? this something where. The

39:14

prosecutor just got on a roll and

39:17

was getting away with things. and be

39:19

careful what you ask for or suggested

39:21

and care. biggest. It. Like you

39:23

say, I don't care. If I

39:26

can hold his own appeal or not, doesn't matter.

39:28

The. Judge did seem hostile toward

39:30

Trump's lawyers. And

39:33

he did allow case that

39:35

should have been stillborn. To

39:38

proceed. So.

39:42

I guess with the way we should think about

39:44

this is. This. Is damning

39:46

to respect for our judicial system

39:48

and for the room rule of

39:50

law when you have a gay

39:52

so infected with prejudice and bias

39:54

and judicial errors. And.

39:56

Political Prosecutions to serve

39:59

April. A. Political.

40:01

Purpose. Ah, the. The.

40:04

That no country. Is.

40:07

Concerned about it at there are

40:09

even as I'm sure you've seen.

40:12

Many. Learned

40:14

commentators on the left. To.

40:17

Have arch their eyebrows over a lot

40:19

of what happened in this trial. It

40:21

just wasn't right. Was

40:23

we go here to just be able

40:25

to say. Convicted.

40:28

Felons. I. Believe that was

40:30

clearly a prosecutors go and I think

40:32

the judge was comfortable with. That.

40:36

Result. The. A

40:38

Be A standards. Three. Dash

40:40

One Point two functions and duties

40:42

of the Prosecutor. Read.

40:45

As follows. A. The.

40:47

Prosecutor is it Administrator of

40:50

Justice. A zealous advocate

40:52

and officer The Court, The

40:54

Prosecutor's Office. Should exercise

40:56

sound discretion, an independent judgment

40:58

and performance of the prosecution

41:00

function. Be. The.

41:03

Primary duty of the prosecutor

41:05

is to seek justice. Within.

41:08

The bounds of the law. Not

41:10

merely to convict. That's

41:12

a very high standard. And let me give

41:14

you an example of. How it

41:16

was. Recently met. Scottish.

41:19

Schaeffer got arrested. By

41:21

a cop who is accused him of

41:24

ignoring his commands and dragging him along

41:26

but by the side of his car.

41:29

Chef. Or said I thought I was doing What.

41:31

This. Other gop wanted I didn't realize you

41:34

were hold and on. It was just a

41:36

mistake and a miscommunication. The. Prosecutor in

41:38

that case that did all of the

41:40

average talk to the cop, looked at

41:43

the cameras that had recorded this and

41:45

said. I can't prove a case here. I'm

41:47

going to dismiss it. But. He

41:49

had been charged by the car. With.

41:51

A felony for assaulting a police

41:53

officer. That's. What I did prosecutor

41:56

would do. When. Someone brings a case

41:58

to he look at it. cannot. Move

42:00

it. And

42:02

then say know if I can build

42:04

I'm not going to bring this case.

42:07

That. Didn't happen here. These prosecutors.

42:11

Did. Not meet the bar. That. You

42:13

just read. Would. He was on

42:15

a campaign trail and he said i'm

42:17

gonna get Trump at that point should

42:19

he have recused himself. Well.

42:22

You mean forty one? The.

42:24

Dia yet? But. When. When.

42:26

The case came before him. He

42:30

should have either declined to prosecute it Are

42:32

rigged. Themselves. To scientists, No

42:35

case you. Are with used in

42:37

said somebody else in New York needs to

42:39

bring. There's no me. Because.

42:41

He had demonstrated by as it is the

42:43

same bias by the way. That.

42:46

The federal judge in charge of that. That.

42:48

The Federal case against Trump. Like.

42:50

Accusing him of. Wrongdoing.

42:54

In connection with the January Six

42:56

Riots. That. Judge before she got

42:58

that case said on the record. Ah,

43:02

Mit. In effect in substance, Mister

43:04

Trump belongs in jail. She said that

43:06

in response to one of the defendants

43:08

she was sentencing a rioter. Someone broke

43:11

into the capital. He. Was saying

43:13

well I'm just doing what Trump wanted.

43:16

And her answer was will, he's not here You

43:18

should be. So.

43:20

She has a bit admitted. Bias.

43:24

Against. Trump. And they

43:26

asked harder it is they trump's lives asked her

43:28

to use. she said no not going to. This.

43:32

Judge was also as to recuse but

43:34

for different reasons and they to me

43:36

or less compelling that different reason is

43:38

that his daughter. Was. Democrat

43:40

fundraiser. Whereas.

43:43

You have a prosecutors describe

43:45

their case. You

43:47

said the directly from Noom. They

43:49

said it was a conspiracy to

43:51

help Donald Trump get elected to

43:53

illegal expenditures. To. Silence

43:55

people who had something to say

43:57

about his behavior. using.

44:00

Doctor corporate records and bank forms to

44:02

conceal those payments along the way. It

44:05

was election fraud. pure and simple. But.

44:07

Conspiracy was not in the indictment.

44:10

It. Was it uses corrected me. I

44:12

said coconspirators use it know they were

44:15

accomplices, not coconspirators that wasn't in the

44:17

indictment wasn't and a number of people.

44:20

People who are. I'm.

44:22

As I have. A deep knowledge

44:24

of criminal procedure. Have said,

44:27

and I agree, if it's not an

44:29

indictment, he can't prosecute somebody for it.

44:32

What? The state did hear was put.

44:34

A whole bunch of stuff in a

44:36

separate document called a Statement of Facts.

44:39

He. Was not charged with any of

44:41

these things, but the state prosecutors when

44:43

they release the indictment also released the

44:46

separate document. That. Said. Well.

44:48

Here's some of the stuff he did. We're not

44:50

gonna charge him with it, but this is what

44:52

he did. So. That was the

44:55

excuse. For. Allowing and

44:57

evidence this conspiracy theory because conspiracy

44:59

was in the second document. Trump.

45:02

Conspired with Cohen. Any conspired with his

45:04

own people. To. Hide

45:07

the the payment process the the

45:09

exhibit you had on that Zuma

45:11

research exhibit Thirty Six that was

45:13

all said to be a conspiracy

45:16

that was described in the separate

45:18

documents. But due.

45:20

Process in mind Understanding

45:22

requires. That. The defendant be

45:25

told in the indictment what it is

45:27

he is accused of doing. It.

45:29

Also said the illegal expenditures. And

45:33

you're saying there weren't any, exactly.

45:36

We just weren't any illegal expenditures

45:38

there were not and. That

45:41

they were using doctor documents. But.

45:43

They weren't Trump's. That's.

45:46

right? He

45:48

was coincidence Cohen created a net

45:50

separate entity tube. Borrow.

45:52

The money and make the payment. and

45:55

several other related documents. That.

45:57

He used to make the nondisclosure.

46:00

The met with. A. Stormy.

46:03

Trump. Was said to be responsible for

46:05

those kind of phony documents. some in

46:07

there was no reason to. Create.

46:09

Another company to make the payment or bar the

46:12

money. Ah, Trump. Said

46:14

we responsible because he conspired with going to

46:16

get that know. But. The indictment

46:18

doesn't charge him with conspiracy. It.

46:22

Doesn't sound like a law school professor

46:24

would score this very high. In.

46:27

Terms of of how they. Brought.

46:29

This case, you know you know who

46:31

Alan Dershowitz is. It. Is. A

46:33

same and still brilliant at the age

46:36

of eighty five. Constitutional

46:38

Law a scholar.

46:41

Taught. Law School at Harvard for

46:43

many years and has been hired

46:45

and multiple. I had

46:48

high profile criminal cases he

46:50

still talking about. Cases.

46:52

Including this one. And. He

46:54

is up in arms about

46:56

how this judge. Has

46:59

handled this case. The Minces:

47:01

No Words. And

47:03

he describes himself as a i'm

47:05

a Liberal Democrat. I have voted against

47:08

Shrunk twice, and I expect to vote

47:10

against seem the third time, But

47:12

this is wrong. This. Is

47:14

one of my concerns because when I look at

47:16

this. This is Not

47:18

about Trump. I think

47:20

depriving some one of their liberty.

47:23

In the United States of America. Comes.

47:26

At a very high standard and

47:28

will should and I don't know

47:30

if what liberties they're going to

47:32

deprive Trump have a minute could

47:34

deprive him of his liberty to

47:36

vote to own. Firearms.

47:38

They could put him in jail. Break.

47:41

Into prime of his liberty to travel

47:43

freely out. I don't know what liberties

47:45

could be. Impacted. By

47:47

this but to deprive some one of

47:49

their liberty. In America

47:52

comes as a very high

47:54

standard. It's. Not. A

47:57

preponderance of the evidence, Which is

47:59

the lower standard that a jury

48:01

looks at. A preponderance of the

48:03

evidence is when it can be

48:05

fifty one, Forty nine. More likely

48:08

than not, Yeah, we find for

48:10

the side. Clear.

48:12

And convincing evidence is. It.

48:15

Does was as clear and convincing it looks.

48:18

Pretty. Likely that's what happened. But

48:20

beyond a reasonable doubt. I've

48:24

worked with juries most of my

48:26

professional career. And. I've

48:28

always interpreted that to mean that

48:30

you sin six or twelve people

48:32

into a room. And.

48:35

They debate talk about this, and

48:37

they conclude that there's no issue

48:39

here about which reasonable people could

48:42

disagree. These things are clear. There

48:44

is nothing here about which reasonable

48:46

folks to disagree. And

48:49

that's a pretty high standards. It

48:51

seems to me. That.

48:53

There are. Some things that lead

48:56

up to that that. You're entitled

48:58

to face your accusers. You're. Entitled

49:00

to know what you're charged with. And.

49:04

Then you have this standard where

49:06

people have to reach beyond a

49:08

reasonable doubt. In

49:10

their findings and it has to

49:12

be unanimous, they just run all

49:15

over the standards. In. This

49:17

case, and if they can do that

49:19

to a former President of the United

49:21

States. And

49:23

that's allowed to stay on. The. What

49:26

Happens to the average citizen?

49:28

What? Happened to somebody gets hold in tax

49:31

court for example. If.

49:33

These standards all of a sudden just get

49:35

thrown to the side and people can. They.

49:38

Don't get due process. Isn't

49:40

this jeopardizing All of us? He

49:43

started by saying this is not about

49:46

trump. I. Would. I

49:48

would amend that slightly. It.

49:51

Is about Trump because the case wouldn't have

49:53

been brought his Trump were not to guy

49:56

good. Point is not just about try it

49:58

is about much more than Trump. Right

50:00

And what has happened. Trump: If it

50:02

can happen to him, it can happen

50:04

to anybody. And. When Trump

50:07

has said as he spritely says on

50:09

the campaign trail. If. They

50:11

if they. They're. Coming after me

50:13

and your next I'm stop And I'm

50:15

I'm standing in the way and I'm

50:17

gonna stand up to them. He

50:21

needs to do that. And He needs to

50:23

say that. But. You're.

50:25

right? What has happened to trump? Is.

50:28

All of the things you said plus. The.

50:31

Evidence that was admitted and excluded

50:33

in this case. Was

50:36

erroneous. If

50:38

it can happen someone like Trump, it can happen

50:40

to the least of us. There.

50:43

Are lot of people listening to us

50:45

right now and watching us right now.

50:48

What should the message be? Push.

50:51

You people take away from. Seeing.

50:53

What's happened here? You've been very clear

50:55

that this case should never have been

50:57

brought. I agree. Completely. And

51:00

it doesn't matter where. the or

51:03

democrat republican. Pro. Trump

51:05

Anti Trump is it doesn't matter

51:07

what we're talking about here. Is

51:10

this new term that's

51:12

been coined Lawfare? That

51:14

warfare has moved into the

51:17

court rooms. Lawsuits. Are

51:19

being used as a. As. A

51:21

weapon. Is. So doesn't

51:23

matter if you like Trump,

51:25

don't like Trump Democrat Republican.

51:28

This is terrible. It

51:30

smacks of. Banana

51:33

Republics tactics. What's.

51:36

The take away here. What should people take away

51:39

from? this? I agree

51:41

that the stance arising from this

51:43

case is he is something you

51:45

can't miss. And. It.

51:48

We. Have A and imperfect. But.

51:51

Wonderful! A.

51:53

Judicial system in this country. Are

51:57

jury trial system. Works.

52:01

Well. It. Isn't always

52:03

doesn't always reach right result.

52:05

And. It requires. It.

52:08

Requires people who are involved in

52:10

that system. To. Be respectful

52:12

of it. And. When you have

52:14

as we saw in this case. A

52:17

prosecutor and a judge. Who.

52:19

Don't. Treat. This get

52:22

that the case is the

52:24

law requires who. Are.

52:27

Concerned most about winning.

52:30

And. Not about doing what's right and what

52:32

the law require. You. Send

52:34

a message to the rest of us that

52:36

we just can't trust. Lawyers.

52:38

Are Judges are the results of

52:40

trials. And there's been a

52:43

lot of talk about the loss of respect

52:45

for the law and much of the time

52:47

people were saying trump. Is. The

52:49

assailant. The one who is threatening the rule

52:51

of law. It's the other way

52:53

around. Trump. Is is

52:56

the victim of this assault on the

52:58

rule of law and that's what it

53:00

was. This. Should be

53:02

reversed. We know this. Not. They.

53:04

Don't care about that. But.

53:07

This should be reversed. It will be.

53:09

Will. Be thrown out. Yes. And

53:11

when it's thrown out, the options will

53:14

be to do so vacated, or to

53:16

retry. It depends on the basis on

53:18

which it is reversed. If it is

53:20

reversed on the ground that. A

53:22

the time it a of hush money

53:24

was not a crime. Be.

53:28

The cover up was not a crime because you

53:30

can't. If if what's your

53:32

cousin up one a crime covering it up in

53:34

a crime. See. There wasn't

53:36

any election law violation either state or

53:38

federal. Did zone out on those grounds.

53:41

It's over. It can't be retried if

53:43

it, however, it is reversed on evidence

53:45

Grounds that you shouldn't have admitted this

53:47

evidence, you should have should have admitted

53:50

this other evidence. Dinner. But

53:52

there could be a second trial. Is.

53:54

A feel Be motivated to do that.

53:56

Well, I think it's gonna get reversed

53:58

and rendered on the law. Points that

54:00

we million do. I love going on

54:02

and it'll be rendered I think so.

54:04

Yeah, so what will happen now July

54:06

Eleventh. Trump goes back for sentencing. Like.

54:09

What? at like two days before he gets the

54:11

nomination or so? Or days before the G O

54:13

P convention? Nobody. Knows what the

54:15

schedule do and his he's full of

54:18

venom. But. I cannot

54:20

imagine that his sentence. Will.

54:23

Will be to put Trump in jail.

54:27

And if he does, Centers.

54:30

Trump to jail. I I believe

54:32

he will suspend the Senate's. Pending.

54:35

Appeal. And if he doesn't,

54:37

I believe Trump will be able. In. Short

54:39

order to get to court of Appeals in New York.

54:42

To. Suspend the Senate so that

54:44

Trump. Will. Get the nomination

54:46

and run. The. Practical issue

54:49

is. Is this. Felony

54:52

Conviction. Gonna

54:54

hurt him. Are helping. Ah,

54:57

my own guess is i don't see out

55:00

helps. It certainly galvanize is the

55:02

people that are gonna vote for Trump. Anyway,

55:05

Make some more determined do so There's

55:08

I'm sitting on the fence and somebody

55:10

says to me. Well. Aren't you

55:12

gonna vote for Trump? now? He's a cell and. Ah,

55:15

I don't see many people jumping off

55:17

the fence and Trump's direction. If.

55:19

Put him on probation, Will

55:22

they stay? that? You. Know

55:24

depends on the terms of probation or most

55:26

the time, maybe all the time. Someone

55:29

on probation has to report end of his.

55:32

Probation. Officer. And. Can't leave

55:34

the stage or the city or some

55:36

confinement like that without permission. I.

55:39

Can't imagine. That been

55:41

done to somebody who's in the

55:43

midst of a fifty state political

55:45

campaign. So I think

55:47

that to would be suspended. Surely.

55:50

Will. Please.

55:53

Surely. Will. Is

55:56

there anything I have an ask you about this?

55:58

So far there's some details those were gonna go

56:00

into on the show, but. Israeli.

56:03

Thing I have an ask you about that you

56:05

feel a need to say in this conversation. The.

56:07

The only other evidence point that

56:10

at that. We. Ought to

56:12

talk about. His the

56:14

exclusion of the expert witness

56:16

that Trump offered. When.

56:20

Once the state was allowed to

56:23

put and. Cohen's. Guilty

56:25

plea. To. A

56:27

Federal election law violation. Trump.

56:31

Should. Have been entitled. To. Bring

56:33

on a witness who would say.

56:36

What? Happened here is not. An.

56:39

Election law violation and then talk

56:41

about the difference between campaign expenses

56:43

which you have to report. And

56:46

personal expenses which you do not have to

56:48

report. And. Sit and he should

56:50

say. A campaign experienced as has

56:52

to be reported, Is something

56:55

like paying for television ads are

56:57

paying for office staff or rent.

57:00

That. Has to be reported to see. Spend that

57:02

money. But. if you if

57:05

you spend it to silence

57:07

a hooker. That's. A

57:09

personal expanse. And. You.

57:12

Don't have to report them. And here's some

57:14

other personal expenses that trump as every day.

57:16

He. Dies, his hair. He.

57:19

Puts he gets under a sun lamp.

57:23

It he uses a lotta hairspray, does your

57:25

personal expenses and then I'll have to be

57:27

reported and neither does play in a hook.

57:30

Well. They had Smith former

57:32

Chairman of the Federal Election

57:35

Commission. Who was

57:37

prepared to offer testimony. That.

57:42

The. Things they were complaining about would

57:44

not have been violations for a

57:46

variety of reasons. One. That.

57:49

The. Business records occurred after the

57:51

election. And. Therefore could

57:53

not be part of a conspiracy. Or.

57:56

Violation of election law that was

57:58

part of history. The only correct.

58:01

No doubt it. He

58:03

was an expert on what is

58:06

wouldn't require what so campaign contribution.

58:08

What a personal experience! And

58:10

that's a different legal question. It

58:12

doesn't really have to do with.

58:15

The. Ins and outs of. Campaign.

58:18

Finance Law. The only thing it as do it is

58:20

that you don't have to report him until after the

58:22

election. So. Had

58:24

he reported, I'm. In. A timely

58:27

way would have been. After

58:29

the election he could have said that because

58:31

said there. But. He.

58:33

Did an investigation. Who.

58:36

Did the investigation? In. Twenty

58:39

Six He was on the Federal

58:41

Election Commission that declined. To.

58:45

Pursue Trump for violating the election

58:47

laws. For. Doing exactly what.

58:51

Alvin bragged The district attorney said trump, it

58:53

does. He declined to do

58:55

the investigation. He. Did the

58:57

investigation. He declined to prosecute. People.

59:01

No violation. Known. Of his a

59:04

formal finding I think it was I think they that

59:06

they rode. I have. An

59:08

explanation for why they weren't gonna pursue it.

59:11

But. They did find no violation.

59:13

Know fine, civil or criminal.

59:16

And. He was going to testify last. Yes,

59:21

Which. Would have offset. The. Go.

59:23

And testimony about. I'm guilty

59:25

of alighted election laws by plane stormy.

59:28

And. Not report in it. Why was

59:30

that excluded? What?

59:33

Was the reason the given. It

59:35

is pretty well settled that you. Almost.

59:38

Never There's some cases had I

59:40

had had experience with were. An

59:43

expert is allowed to testify about the law,

59:45

but it's when the law is really arcane

59:47

and not many people know it or understand

59:49

it. Generally speaking, the jury gets it's law

59:51

from the judge. And generally speaking,

59:53

you don't call an expert to come in

59:56

and say, well, I know there's an election

59:58

law violation alleged here, but there. One

1:00:00

one because he's usurping the the

1:00:02

duties of the judge. And. That

1:00:04

would have been a good reason to keep it out.

1:00:06

If. The judge hadn't let Cohen's plea

1:00:09

agreement and and let them question Cohen

1:00:11

about. Pleading guilty, being

1:00:13

guilty, But. Once that door was opened.

1:00:16

In my view, the judge should have led a day and. Let.

1:00:19

The expert testimony and. Why? Wouldn't

1:00:21

they have move fruit. Of

1:00:23

Bill said the jury out and put it in a

1:00:26

record. We. Don't know this.

1:00:28

they didn't but they certainly should have. Sent.

1:00:30

To Juri output that guy brad Smith is that's

1:00:33

his name on the stand and asking the questions

1:00:35

that they wanted to Juri to here and then

1:00:37

having completed that I should say to the judge

1:00:39

I want you to let me do this in

1:00:41

front of the jury. Will you do it now

1:00:43

that you've heard it. Judge would

1:00:45

have said no, but. By. Making that

1:00:47

record by asking those questions and getting

1:00:50

those answers, they were preserved this point

1:00:52

for appeal. It. May not have

1:00:54

been preserved. So. If they

1:00:56

didn't, Do. That. They.

1:00:58

May have wave that. It's maybe

1:01:01

it depends on the colloquy that went

1:01:03

on around it. Isn't what

1:01:05

they said back and forth. Yes. There.

1:01:07

Would be too bad. He's. Got enough?

1:01:10

Is. Going to get this thing reversed. Either

1:01:12

way, they're even without it. Will

1:01:15

talk about them. For.

1:01:17

More. Anything else. I

1:01:20

can think of it. On

1:01:22

to share my final thoughts

1:01:24

about this this weaponization of

1:01:26

are great institutions the F

1:01:28

B I, Justice Department, an

1:01:31

individual states similar institutions. Will.

1:01:33

Lead to one of two outcomes. One.

1:01:35

Is more the same from the other side.

1:01:37

Tit for tat. That. May seem

1:01:39

deserve but it is not the right

1:01:41

way forward for America. The.

1:01:44

Other is what I call on

1:01:46

you to demand from your politicians

1:01:48

today: an end to this craziness

1:01:50

in order to save the soul

1:01:52

insanity of our country. The

1:01:54

Pope is Ashley given us the right

1:01:56

approach in his new book when he

1:01:58

says we're all brothers. Sisters and

1:02:00

or must be no resentment among

1:02:03

us for any war to truly

1:02:05

and forgiveness is necessary. That.

1:02:07

Is true of any war, including

1:02:10

our current cultural war. We need

1:02:12

our Justice Department to return to

1:02:14

the business of medigap justice and

1:02:17

not running the political agendas of

1:02:19

those currently and power, blindly seeking

1:02:21

conditions warranted or otherwise and attacking

1:02:24

political opponents. That. Requires

1:02:26

a very few important things from each

1:02:28

of you. from all of us. Finding

1:02:31

your voice, Forgiveness.

1:02:33

And focus on the way forward. Forgive.

1:02:37

Them for they know not what they do. Forgiveness.

1:02:41

and at the same time requiring better.

1:02:43

We. Are not some Banana Republic For

1:02:45

God sakes? What? Are we going

1:02:48

to do next? Have a pool poisoning posse?

1:02:51

And start finding political opponents foaming

1:02:53

at the mouth at home, not

1:02:55

so mysteriously dying and they're lazy

1:02:58

boy recliners. Were. Better

1:03:00

than that. We must be better than

1:03:02

that. I don't like

1:03:04

what I see happening in our country.

1:03:06

This kind of thing is exactly why

1:03:09

I launched Marriage Rate Media and wrote

1:03:11

we've got issues I don't like seeing

1:03:13

the weaponization of our justice system

1:03:15

agencies and powerful government actions that frightfully

1:03:18

just make my skin crawl. For.

1:03:20

All of us and for my grandchildren. And

1:03:23

let's be honest, This. Is

1:03:25

so not just about Trump?

1:03:28

If. You let your hatred for Donald

1:03:31

Trump compromise your abilities. Fine True

1:03:33

North on your moral compass. Shame

1:03:35

on you. If.

1:03:37

You let your discuss for biden

1:03:39

make you blind to the inevitable

1:03:41

consequences of pursuing revenge. Then God

1:03:44

help the children who will inherit

1:03:46

the dystopian nightmare we create. We.

1:03:49

Need leaders who will pledge to

1:03:52

end this vicious cycle right now

1:03:54

and return us to that safe

1:03:56

place where our institutions are no

1:03:58

longer bad that I've been weaponized,

1:04:00

but rather simpli serve their intended

1:04:02

purpose. We have serious problems to

1:04:05

solve and it will take serious

1:04:07

people to solve them. Men:

1:04:09

And women who we hold accountable

1:04:11

for doing that which they were

1:04:13

selected or hired to do. They

1:04:16

need to know we are watching

1:04:18

in their positions or privileges, not

1:04:20

legacies, They. Work for

1:04:22

us until they don't. I'm

1:04:25

not into politics. I claim no expertise,

1:04:27

nor do I seek any. I.

1:04:30

Don't advocate voting for one candidate

1:04:32

over another. I stay in my

1:04:34

lane, addressing human behavior collectively, culturally,

1:04:36

and I'm focused on how we

1:04:38

can have maximum control in our

1:04:40

lives and turn this ship of

1:04:43

state called America in the right

1:04:45

direction and get her back on

1:04:47

track. So we

1:04:49

can be proud. That's my mission in.

1:04:51

This is a call to action to

1:04:53

save our collective so and sanity. This

1:04:56

is also a call to redemptions, healing

1:04:59

and forgiveness that leads to peace among

1:05:01

us all which is the most important

1:05:03

gift we can share and are dangerous.

1:05:05

World. The

1:05:07

current administration could and should

1:05:09

do the right thing. Dismiss

1:05:11

now even now post conviction

1:05:13

of a political opponent. All

1:05:17

such lawfare. And fled

1:05:19

to return to the normal functioning of

1:05:21

a government rightly run. God

1:05:24

bless you all And God bless these United

1:05:26

States of America!