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0:03
Good morning and welcome to morning Joe
0:05
it is Friday October 13th. We are following
0:08
fast moving developments out of Israel.
0:10
The country's military is telling
0:13
us more than a million people telling more
0:15
than a million people to leave their homes
0:17
this morning as it prepares
0:20
a potential full-scale ground
0:22
invasion in the wake of the terror
0:25
attacks by Hamas. We'll have a live report
0:27
for the very latest on the ground there plus
0:29
an update on the Biden administration's
0:32
efforts to prevent further escalation
0:34
in the region with top officials on
0:37
the ground this morning in Israel and
0:39
Jordan. Also ahead the
0:41
Republican-led chaos on Capitol
0:43
Hill reached yet another level last
0:45
night when the party's nominee
0:47
for speaker just dropped out
0:50
of the race. We'll talk about how
0:52
that impacts the country and
0:55
world events along with Joe, Willie
0:57
and me we have the host of Way Too Early
0:59
White House Bureau Chief at Politico Jonathan
1:02
Lemire and President Emeritus
1:04
of the Council on Foreign Relations Richard
1:07
Haas is with us here in New York as well. Nearly
1:10
a week into the war the atrocities
1:13
carried out by Hamas are
1:15
still coming to light. On social
1:17
media yesterday the Israeli Defense Forces
1:19
released photos showing the
1:21
burnt and decapitated bodies
1:24
of babies. Due to
1:26
their graphic nature we're not going to show
1:29
the images here this morning. Among the many Israelis
1:32
missing, 10 members of a
1:34
family who descended from a Holocaust
1:36
escapee who himself passed
1:39
away just last year. Speaking
1:42
in Tel Aviv yesterday US Secretary
1:44
of State Anthony Blinken described some of the
1:46
horrors he had been shown in photos.
1:51
It's hard to find the right words. It's
1:57
beyond what anyone would ever
1:59
ever want to imagine, much
2:02
less actually see and
2:05
God forbid experience. A
2:08
baby, an infant, riddled
2:11
with bullets, soldiers
2:16
beheaded,
2:18
young people burned alive in
2:20
their cars or
2:23
in their highway rooms. I
2:27
could go on, but
2:31
it's simply depravity
2:34
in the worst imaginable
2:36
way.
2:38
Meanwhile, in its ongoing response
2:41
to the terrorist ambush and ahead of a
2:43
potential ground invasion of Gaza, Israel's
2:45
military has called for the entire
2:48
population of the northern half of Gaza
2:50
to move to southern Gaza within
2:52
the next 24 hours. That area home
2:55
to just over 1 million people accounts for
2:57
about half of the territory's population.
3:00
The United Nations warning such a move would be
3:02
impossible without devastating humanitarian
3:05
consequences. The UN has asked for the
3:07
order to be rescinded to avoid
3:09
transforming quote, what is already a tragedy
3:12
into a calamitous situation. Hamas
3:14
has told Palestinians not to comply
3:16
with Israeli demands, calling it quote, psychological
3:20
warfare. Join us now from the Israel-Gaza
3:23
border, NBC chief foreign correspondent Richard
3:25
Engel. Richard, thank
3:27
you for being with us again this morning. What more can you
3:29
tell us about the practicality
3:31
of what Israel has requested, which is that the
3:34
northern half of Gaza moved to the southern
3:36
half of Gaza in the next 24 hours? And
3:41
it is asking people to do that while
3:43
they are under attack, while they are sealed
3:45
off, and while the power, electricity,
3:48
gas, all supplies have been cut
3:51
off. So people are, it
3:53
is not an organized evacuation
3:55
in any way. People have just been told leave
3:58
by any means possible. You can see behind
4:00
me right now, that is the
4:03
Northern Gaza Strip, that is Gaza
4:05
City. That is the most populated
4:07
part of Gaza. As you said, there
4:09
are just over two million people in
4:11
the Gaza Strip. It is broken up
4:13
into roughly two heavily
4:16
populated areas, the north with Gaza City
4:18
and then in the south. And what Israel has done
4:21
in Hanyunas in the south and what Israel has
4:23
said, everyone should leave
4:25
the north, evacuate Gaza City,
4:28
evacuate an entire city of a million people
4:30
and get in their cars, get in donkey
4:33
carts, and there are still donkey carts in use
4:35
in Gaza and moved
4:37
south, moved below the
4:39
Wadi Gaza Valley. And we've
4:42
spoken this morning with people inside Gaza,
4:44
they are trying to do it. Hamas has
4:47
told them not to leave, not to obey this order,
4:49
but people are listening. And they
4:51
are packing whatever they can, taking
4:53
a little food, taking some supplies, if
4:56
they have any batteries, any gasoline,
4:58
they're taking out with them and they are trying
5:00
to move south. Overnight,
5:03
we heard some of the most intense bombardments
5:05
so far. We were here all night
5:08
and the incoming was intense,
5:10
one after the other after another, with
5:13
Israeli airstrikes, tank fire going
5:15
in, we heard small arms fire. And
5:17
even now we are hearing Israeli drones above
5:20
and this offensive is
5:22
continuing. We will see today
5:24
if now that Israel has given
5:27
this order for people to move south, if
5:30
the attacks do lessen to a degree,
5:33
that remains unknown. Hospital
5:35
officials inside Gaza also tell us
5:37
they're overwhelmed. There are thousands of dead
5:40
and injured and they are running out of supplies,
5:42
people are being treated on the floor, hospitals
5:45
are enormously crowded. So now
5:48
under attack, cut off, people
5:50
are taking what they can and trying to get out
5:53
of that city right now
5:54
and move to what could be a safer
5:57
area before what is anticipated
5:59
to be an Israeli.
5:59
Israeli onslaught into Gaza, and now
6:02
it seems quite clear that the onslaught will focus
6:04
on the north, on Gaza City. So,
6:07
Richard, let me ask you about that. Anticipated
6:09
onslaught, as you said, Israel has been responding
6:11
from the air to this point over the last week
6:14
or so. What could a ground
6:16
assault, a ground invasion by the Israeli
6:18
military look like here? Well,
6:23
one of the reasons that Israel says that it wants
6:25
people to leave is it is expecting
6:28
a massive fight. It is expecting that
6:31
Hamas is dug in. So, when
6:34
you expect to fight against an
6:36
entrenched enemy, you are going to bring
6:38
a lot of force to bear. So, Israel
6:40
has brought in tanks,
6:43
it has brought in artillery, and when they move
6:45
the tanks into the tight
6:48
streets of Gaza looking for Hamas
6:51
concerned about booby traps, trying to
6:54
destroy them, they will be firing a great
6:58
deal. So, this area could soon
7:00
become an open fire zone, and
7:02
I think that's why Israel is trying to tell people
7:05
leave the area right now. It
7:07
will be dangerous for the Israelis because Hamas
7:10
is dug in. It will be dangerous for
7:12
Hamas, clearly, but it will
7:14
be very dangerous for any Palestinians
7:17
who stay behind and are caught up in
7:19
what will soon be perhaps some of the most
7:21
intense urban fighting that we've seen anywhere
7:24
in the world in years. Richard,
7:26
could you explain to our viewers in America
7:30
why Egypt sealed its
7:33
border with Gaza and why they
7:35
sealed the border soon after the attack?
7:38
I dropped off on IFB. I'm sorry, I can't
7:40
hear you if you're asking. Okay,
7:43
very good. Thank you, Richard Engel. We'll
7:47
be asking Richard Haas that question. Richard Engel,
7:49
thank you so much, and please do everything
7:51
you can to be safe. Richard
7:54
Haas will ask you that same question.
7:57
Egypt, obviously.
7:59
No, no,
8:01
no friends of Hamas. Egypt,
8:04
who, of course, struck a peace deal with
8:06
Israel in the late 1970s. Talk
8:13
about why Egypt has sealed off
8:15
the border with Hamas,
8:17
because that obviously would allow a
8:20
lot of Palestinians to
8:22
escape. Egypt
8:24
used to administer the Gaza Strip
8:26
and did until the 1967 Six-Day War. They
8:30
know it all too well. There
8:32
has been infiltration over the years into Egypt
8:35
of people who were committing terrorist acts
8:37
within Egypt, among other things. So
8:39
they just shut down the border
8:41
as part of their larger effort to maintain internal
8:44
security. It's about that
8:47
simple. And that really explains
8:49
a larger point that Americans who are just now
8:51
tuning into this, the atrocities
8:53
that have happened and hearing about Israel
8:56
and Hamas,
8:59
and of course, the ongoing
9:02
Palestinian question. I
9:05
had noticed over the past 10, 15 years,
9:09
I'm sure you've noticed it even longer because
9:12
you've been so involved in this region for so long,
9:14
but a growing animosity toward
9:17
the Palestinian cause
9:19
because of Hamas, because of the Palestinian
9:21
Authority from Arab governments.
9:26
It used to be that the Arab League would get together.
9:28
They would unanimously vote against Israel.
9:31
They would vote for causes
9:33
that were near and dear to Hamas's heart. That
9:36
is no more. That's no longer,
9:38
in fact, most of the Sunni Arab world has
9:41
turned against Hamas and
9:44
by extension by those Palestinians
9:46
living in the Gaza Strip, which of course is an
9:49
ongoing tragedy. Why?
9:51
Lots of reasons. One is the principal backer
9:53
of Hamas is Iran. That
9:55
immediately puts a lot of the Sunni Arab
9:57
government, shall we say, on the ground. unnoticed.
10:01
People forget their history also, Joe. When
10:03
Saddam Hussein invaded and
10:06
occupied Kuwait, who was cheering
10:08
for Saddam Hussein? Well, it was the Palestinians.
10:11
A lot of the Sunni Arab governments have a pretty
10:13
long memory. They have no illusions
10:16
about that. Hamas, again, their
10:20
whole involvement with terrorism and other radical
10:22
groups doesn't make the Arab
10:25
governments comfortable. Arab governments would rather
10:27
normalize with Israel for the most part. The
10:29
one thing that Arab governments, though, Joe, have to be
10:32
careful of, and we see it in some ways
10:34
in the toing and froing with Saudi
10:36
policy here, is the Palestinians
10:40
still enjoy considerable popular support.
10:42
In some ways, the governments are in a different place in lots
10:45
of the Arab world than the quote-unquote Arab
10:47
street. So the governments have to be a little
10:49
bit careful not to get too far
10:51
out in front of their population. And if you have,
10:54
for example, Al Jazeera showing
10:56
all sorts of images, if we get
10:58
to the point where Israel does go in and force
11:00
and you see Palestinian civilians
11:03
getting hurt, it's just the sort of thing
11:05
that's going to make the governments really careful
11:08
because they face a situation then
11:10
where sympathy for Hamas and sympathy
11:12
for the Palestinians will grow. Well,
11:15
there's already, of course, a humanitarian
11:18
crisis that is growing
11:20
right now in Gaza, where those images are
11:22
coming out, of
11:25
children, of
11:27
elderly people being
11:32
hurt by the attacks. Many have died.
11:35
Richard, the question is, because obviously
11:38
Hamas knew this would happen. Hamas
11:42
just being blunt about it, if
11:45
an Israeli dies, then
11:48
that's a victory for Hamas. If a
11:50
Palestinian dies while Israel
11:52
is trying to go after Hamas terrorists,
11:55
that's also seen as a victory for
11:57
Hamas. They don't care if their people die.
11:59
In fact, They've said anybody
12:01
that tries to make peace with Israel
12:04
will be shot. So
12:06
the question is, Richard, with
12:09
the United Nations warning of a
12:12
coming humanitarian crisis that
12:15
many would say is already there, what
12:17
do the Israelis do? What is their
12:19
best move? They cannot allow Gaza
12:22
to remain run by
12:24
these terrorists who have won it without
12:27
an election since 2007. They have
12:29
to go in and they have to root out, I
12:32
was going to say ISIS, might as well be
12:35
ISIS, Hamas, but
12:37
how do they do it and avoid just
12:39
a catastrophic humanitarian crisis? So
12:42
let me be controversial here. There's
12:44
a difference between what Israel will do or likely
12:46
to do and what it should do. What I
12:48
fear it will do is go in and mass. I
12:51
think it'll be extraordinarily costly for
12:53
Israeli armed forces. Several will get
12:55
killed, will get captured. I
12:58
think it increases the odds dramatically.
13:00
If there's a massive Israeli campaign in Gaza,
13:03
the war will widen. That's just the sort of thing
13:05
I fear could bring Hezbollah and
13:07
others into the war. You
13:09
will get the global international response.
13:12
Again, Israel will lose some of
13:14
the high ground. Most of all, Joe,
13:16
I do not believe it will succeed
13:18
if success is defined as eliminating
13:21
Hamas. I fear it could actually work the other
13:23
way. I also think Israel has
13:26
better options. I would suggest two things. I
13:28
would say go after Hamas in a
13:30
discreet way, not in a mass way. Do targeted
13:33
attacks, whether it's from the air or from the ground
13:35
when you have really high value, quote
13:37
unquote, actionable intelligence. Go
13:39
after Hamas. Second of all, shore
13:41
up Israeli defenses facing
13:43
Gaza. That was what started this in the
13:46
sense or allowed this to happen, the
13:48
weakness of Israeli defense readiness
13:51
against Gaza. So make it impossible
13:53
for Hamas ever to do something like this
13:55
ever again and go after individual
13:58
or units of Hamas whenever you
14:00
have a chance. But I would really be
14:02
careful. I really have questions about
14:05
reoccupation of Gaza. We've seen this
14:07
movie before. Israel got out in 2005 for
14:09
the very reason that this could
14:12
not be sustained. And when they got out,
14:14
it created a vacuum which Hamas
14:16
has filled. I don't want to see a rerun here.
14:20
And of course, Willie, Hamas knew that
14:23
with its barbaric actions
14:25
that it would pull
14:28
Israel and the Gaza, almost
14:31
setting a trap. Richard put
14:33
a lot of options out. The
14:35
option I would start with is
14:38
turning the screws on Iran and
14:41
Iran's oil revenue as tightly
14:43
as possible because all Hamas's
14:46
funding at the end of the day are most
14:48
of it, like Hezbollah's, like
14:51
the Houdy rebels, like Islamic
14:53
Jihad. It comes from Iran.
14:55
When Iran doesn't have oil money, then
14:58
they can't fund Hamas. Yeah.
15:02
And we're hearing now that call from
15:04
Republicans and Democrats alike
15:06
about the $6 billion that we've been discussing
15:08
and everything else. You have to turn the screws. Richard,
15:11
I wanted to ask you as we're talking about the relationship
15:14
between the Arab governments and
15:16
Hamas, about a name we haven't talked about
15:18
much in the last week or so. And that's Qatar,
15:21
which hosts in lavish
15:23
living quarters the leadership of Hamas.
15:26
They're not on the ground in Gaza. They're
15:29
in Hamas calling for international jihad
15:31
this weekend. What is the role
15:34
of Qatar in all this? Might they be able
15:36
to help get some of the hostages out? You
15:38
even have some foreign policy, former foreign
15:40
policy officials in America saying America
15:43
should take or Israel should take military
15:45
action to take out the leadership of
15:48
Hamas inside Qatar. That seems unlikely.
15:50
But the point is the people running
15:52
the operation sit comfortably in a different Arab
15:55
nation that's been welcomed into the world,
15:57
hosted the World Cup last year and everything else.
15:59
So what's their role? role in all this. They
16:01
are the principal financial backers. If Iran
16:03
is in some ways the principal strategic
16:06
backer, I guess you'd call it, Gutter hides
16:08
behind the idea that they're only giving humanitarian
16:10
help to the people of Gaza. Obviously
16:13
money is fungible, so that doesn't wash, it
16:15
doesn't bear any scrutiny. I
16:19
think the United States should, I mean, put much more
16:21
pressure on Gutter. You know, look, after
16:23
9-11, U.S. policy changed,
16:25
and we declared that we no longer drew
16:27
a distinction between terrorists and
16:29
those governments that supported terrorism. So
16:32
I actually think we ought to have a very rough conversation
16:34
with Gutter. What's holding us back in part
16:37
is the United States is so dependent on them
16:39
for its own military presence in this part of the
16:41
world. It's
16:43
an important home to a lot of U.S. military forces.
16:46
So it's not an easy conversation.
16:49
But you know, and what we might want to do is talk about
16:51
the parameters or put certain limits
16:53
on the help they give to Hamas. And you also
16:56
say one other thing. I do think if there is an
16:58
exchange of hostages for
17:00
Hamas prisoners being held in Israeli
17:03
prisons, Gutter will be at the center
17:05
of it, possibly Egypt as well. But
17:07
certainly Gutter will play a significant role
17:09
here. So we've got multiple considerations
17:12
here. So it's just very hard to say, well,
17:14
we're going to come down on Gutter with it like a ton of bricks,
17:17
because there's other things that weigh against that.
17:19
So Johnson LeMere, President Biden,
17:21
positioning this country fully partnered
17:24
side by side with Israel.
17:27
Lots of
17:28
strength and moral clarity in
17:31
his words, Secretary Blinken backing him up
17:33
with his presence there. But
17:35
he also is running a government
17:38
that has some parallels with Israel
17:40
right now in terms of the chaos and the Republican
17:42
Party and no speaker of
17:44
the House. Yeah, no speaker of the House, which we'll dive into later this
17:46
morning. Steve Scalia's dropping out last night. And
17:49
certainly President Biden is a full-throated endorsement
17:52
of Israel, but also some
17:54
warnings about what could come next. Like make sure,
17:56
try to avoid civilian casualties. Be
17:58
concerned about this humanitarian crisis. crisis trying to, and
18:01
we heard it pretty explicitly from Secretary of State Blinken while
18:03
he was in Israel this week telling Prime Minister Netanyahu
18:06
that hey, tap the brakes a little bit here as to what's going to happen
18:08
next in Gaza. Richard also wanted
18:10
to talk to you about the fate of the hostages. I
18:12
have some new reporting this morning looking into
18:14
why the White House is not sending boots on the ground
18:16
there in part in deference to Israel, but
18:19
also because they don't know where the hostages
18:22
are. They suspect they're spread out. They suspect
18:24
they're hidden among civilian targets. They also feel like Israel's
18:27
intelligence in that region not as good as it used
18:29
to be, which is why it led to the attack last
18:31
week. So if Israel goes in
18:34
this weekend like they're telegraphing they may, what
18:37
do you think happens to the 100 odd
18:39
hostages there, including some Americans? Well,
18:42
obviously they're in a greater jeopardy than they are.
18:44
One, Hamas took the hostages for
18:46
two reasons. One was to arrange some kind
18:48
of a swap to get their own people out. The other
18:50
was to try to put a brake on Israeli
18:52
military action. And if
18:55
that brake doesn't work, and if there is widespread
18:57
military action, then I don't mean
18:59
to sound callous, but what worries me, Jonathan,
19:02
is the quote unquote value of these innocent
19:04
people to Hamas goes down. And
19:06
I think I fear that it puts them at greater
19:09
risk. Can I just make a larger point? Because you put your finger
19:11
on something really big. For the US right
19:13
now, for the Biden administration, which has been incredibly
19:15
supportive of Israel. I thought the president speak
19:17
the other day was really powerful and
19:20
just magnificent. But privately,
19:23
there's growing disagreement with what Israel
19:25
wants to do. So the administration is trying
19:27
to thread the needle. It is trying to
19:30
be as supportive of you can of Israel's
19:32
right to retaliate, but privately
19:34
saying just because you might have the right to do
19:36
certain things, is it really smart? Will
19:39
it leave you better off? And trying
19:41
to work this out so we are supportive
19:43
of Israel, yet in some ways try to pull
19:45
them back is threading the needle. But
19:47
that's exactly what the administration is doing. And quite
19:50
honestly, we all better hope. I actually think
19:52
we all better hope they succeed because
19:54
I worry about where this is, where this is heading.
19:56
And Joe, President Biden, obviously navigating
19:59
this on the world's While back
20:01
here at home there is questions hanging
20:03
over Capitol Hill as to how to really get
20:06
a functioning Congress in full Well,
20:08
I mean we here we have a crisis obviously
20:11
one of the the gravest crises
20:14
in the Middle East certainly
20:17
possibly since 1973 we
20:22
We have a grave crisis in
20:24
in the center of Europe with
20:27
Ukraine fighting against Russian
20:29
aggression We have
20:31
the the the continued fear that
20:33
China is going to act aggressively against
20:38
Taiwan and you
20:40
have House Republicans just
20:43
inexplicably not picking
20:45
a speaker of the house So just just
20:48
make Patrick McHenry the temporary
20:50
speaker for now for God's sake until
20:53
Everybody else can get their act together, but
20:56
you not only have that you you
20:58
have the Republicans In the house
21:00
in chaos. It is Unbelievably
21:03
dangerous time for Americans in the world
21:06
and then you have Donald Trump The
21:09
Wall Street Journal editorial page talking
21:11
about Donald Trump's quote Israeli
21:14
war in sight and saying mr Trump can't help
21:17
himself from making everything about himself That's
21:19
the same way handled the covert crisis and
21:21
it's what voters would get in a second
21:23
Trump term in a much more dangerous
21:26
world That's from the Wall Street Journal editorial page
21:28
this morning And of course, they're
21:30
responding to what Israelis are responding
21:32
to and that is Donald Trump going
21:35
out and praising Hezbollah and attacking
21:38
Israel and its leaders That's
21:42
what's going on right now there's a reason
21:44
why the Israelis are putting up billboards
21:48
of Joe Biden in Tel Aviv and
21:50
Thanking Joe Biden for his support
21:54
because that's what they need
21:56
right now So
21:58
it's and it's something that I know So many Republicans
22:01
want to give to
22:05
give to the Israelis, but they need
22:07
to get their act together in the House, at least
22:09
get a temporary speaker. And
22:13
they need to get a presidential candidate who
22:15
actually doesn't undermine Israel right
22:18
after their worst attack in 50 years. We'll
22:21
talk about that and much more when Morning Joe
22:23
comes back. MSNBC
22:25
is going to be live here all night. Today's
22:27
news requires more facts. U.S.
22:29
officials say that Russia approved the actions
22:32
taken by Russian pilots. More
22:34
analysis. Our gun violence epidemic
22:36
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has. And more respect.
22:40
This is not just about women and pregnant people in Texas.
22:43
This is about people across this country. The
22:45
world's never been harder to understand. That's
22:48
why it's never been more important to try. MSNBC,
22:52
understand more.
22:56
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22:58
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Go deep into the heart of the world's most astonishing
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23:42
Twenty-seven past the hour
23:44
now to the chaos on Capitol
23:46
Hill. The Republican battle for a new House
23:49
Speaker has descended into
23:51
an even bigger mess this morning, just
23:54
one day after the party nominated
23:56
Majority Leader Steve Scalise for the position
23:58
of the Louisiana Congress.
23:59
with Drew from the race
24:02
last night. I
24:04
just share with my colleagues that I'm a draw on my name as
24:07
a cabinet for the speaker-designee.
24:11
If you look at over the last few weeks, if
24:15
you look at where our conference ends, there's no work to
24:17
be done. Our conference
24:19
still has to come together
24:21
and is not there. Joining
24:25
us now, MSNBC contributor Mike Marnicle and
24:28
another Mike, the co-founder of Axios, Mike
24:30
Allen, and congressional reporter for
24:33
The Hill, Michael Schnell.
24:36
And, Jo, what happened? What could
24:38
have happened at this point? Wouldn't
24:41
it be a moment now more than ever where
24:43
they need things to just function?
24:45
Get
24:47
someone in place. Let's go.
24:50
It is inexplicable. I mean, I don't know of
24:52
any political party that would ever act. That
24:56
way, we had a problem with Newt Gingrich.
25:00
We took care of that problem in between
25:02
sessions, and he moved
25:05
on. And John Boehner complained about
25:07
his problems, and
25:11
for good reason. Paul Ryan quietly
25:14
would grouse about it, but things were
25:16
done in a somewhat orderly process. So
25:20
you didn't have this happening in the middle of two
25:22
of the biggest wars. In recent
25:25
history. And so it's
25:29
a recklessness. It's
25:31
an irresponsibility. It's
25:34
a lack of leadership, the likes of which none
25:36
of us have ever seen. In our lifetime.
25:40
From the House or the Senate, really,
25:42
in our lifetime. It seems
25:44
to me, Jonathan O'Mear,
25:47
it's one thing when you
25:49
have eight people deciding
25:52
they're going to go their own way. But
25:54
you had half the conference deciding
25:56
that they weren't going to go with the
25:59
will of the majority. of the conference
26:02
has always happened. So
26:04
this is spread from eight people to maybe 90, 95 people. Now
26:08
it seems to me, I'm wondering if there's any
26:10
reporting or are they thinking about somebody like Patrick
26:13
McHenry, just as a temporary
26:15
speaker, where they say, okay,
26:18
you just, you hold
26:20
the gavel, you run this place
26:23
until we can get our act together
26:25
because there is a hot war
26:28
in the Middle East, there's a hot war in
26:30
the center of Europe, and in
26:32
both cases, our allies
26:35
are in crisis and are gonna need our help. A
26:38
phrase we use a lot in this modern era
26:40
of politics, the Trump era, if you will, is we've
26:42
never seen this before, but we've never seen this
26:44
before. You come out of that closed door meetings with your
26:46
nominee, that person is going to be speaker.
26:49
Steve Scalia, though, didn't even
26:51
come close, and that's just it. He bailed
26:54
last night because he wasn't just a few
26:56
votes shy, he was dozens of
26:58
votes shy. So now, where
27:00
do we go from here? There are some who support Jim
27:02
Jordan, who was the runner up to Scalia, saying, well, he
27:04
can make another chance now, although people
27:06
we talked to on the Hill suggest his chances
27:09
are just as slim as Scalia's were.
27:11
There is still this thought of a dark horse, sort
27:13
of more mainstream moderate candidate who could jump
27:15
in. It's not clear who that would be.
27:18
Some Republicans saying, well, we've gotta make a deal with the
27:20
Democrats now. Maybe we can get their support.
27:22
Democrats saying, well, we might
27:24
be into that, but we're gonna need some real concessions
27:27
and promises to make that
27:29
happen. And then there's the McHenry point, with this
27:31
momentum there, the idea of trying to create some
27:33
sort of mechanism, like Allen, where he could
27:35
step in in a temporary way, because this
27:37
is happening at such a destabilizing moment.
27:40
The war in Israel, what's happening in Ukraine,
27:43
government shutdown deadline, that's on the horizon, that's
27:45
only a month away. But again,
27:47
it's not clear whether they'll be able to
27:49
pull that off. What are you hearing? Is
27:52
there any end in sight to this crisis?
27:54
Yeah, the Axios Hill team has new reporting
27:56
this morning, the bipartisan group
27:58
of about 10. House members are
28:01
talking about how they could do
28:03
it, how they could find a speaker. I
28:06
know that behind the scenes, I'm
28:08
told that there have been talks about some kind of
28:10
power sharing, but could there be, Democrats
28:14
suggest, like a couple of speakers that would be
28:16
acceptable to them? In turn,
28:19
they get some say about what goes on
28:21
the floor. It could be some pretty subtle procedural
28:24
changes that they would go for. They would get in there.
28:26
I will say, I'm skeptical, like
28:28
you, I've lived through all too many centrist
28:31
moments, but this is an emergency.
28:35
So Michael Schnell, you've been reporting on every
28:37
twist and turn of this process up
28:40
until minutes ago. I'm sure you're on the phone.
28:42
So it's unclear that anyone is
28:44
it not could get to 17. So Scalise can
28:47
step aside and then they can say, well, it's Jim Jordan.
28:49
Well, Jim Jordan lost to Steve Scalise in
28:51
that preliminary round of voting. Is
28:54
there anybody in that caucus who can get
28:56
to 217?
28:57
And look, Willie, that's obviously the key
28:59
question here. And I think that you bring up two really
29:01
key points that I want to touch on. A, Republicans
29:04
are likely now going to put up a new candidate,
29:07
Jim Jordan, as you mentioned, who actually secured
29:09
fewer votes than Steve Scalise in that
29:12
internal election. The final tally
29:14
was 113 to 99. So Republicans are now going to try to
29:18
move ahead with Jim Jordan, who already
29:20
has less support within the conference,
29:22
not really a good place to start at. And
29:24
then when you get into, you know, is there anybody
29:27
who can secure enough support to
29:29
wield the gavel? Look, Jim Jordan
29:31
is likely going to have the same problem that Steve
29:33
Scalise had. The fact that the House GOP
29:35
majority is so slim, you need
29:37
to have near unanimous support to win
29:39
the speakership on the House floor. There are
29:41
already some Republicans coming out against
29:44
Jim Jordan by my count to Ann
29:46
Wagner and Austin Scott already.
29:48
It's an uphill climb for him. You
29:50
know, Mike Barnacle, I was hearing
29:52
sound bites from some of these, I guess, backbenchers,
29:55
extremists about why Steve Scalise
29:57
shouldn't have the job or whatever.
29:59
We're saying things that were so
30:01
stupid and cruel and just
30:04
beyond even bringing up at this table. But
30:06
don't these people see the fire
30:08
that's
30:09
burning around the world that they
30:12
should think above themselves perhaps
30:15
and operate? What's
30:17
going on? It's nice
30:19
seeing an optimist this early on. Unfortunately,
30:21
that's not the case. I'm not optimistic.
30:24
I'm just trying to figure it out. It's not even a case
30:27
of a tyranny of the minority. It's a
30:29
tyranny of ten. And
30:31
yet in the middle of that, you get a ray
30:34
of common sense from even what
30:36
used to be the Republican Party. I
30:38
was listening to Chairman Mike McFall
30:40
yesterday, chair of the House Foreign
30:43
Relations Committee.
30:44
And he was as upset about
30:47
what is happening as we are
30:49
apparently today and as many people are
30:51
today. They lack the ability
30:53
to govern, the basic ability to govern,
30:56
and they don't care about it. But
30:58
vote for your member of Congress no matter who it is,
31:00
no matter what party you're in. You want them to
31:02
do one thing. You want them to do their job. And
31:05
their job is doing something for their constituents.
31:07
And they've lost that ability. Well,
31:10
and you are so
31:12
right, and I'm so glad you brought up Chairman McCall.
31:15
Not only is right on this point, he's
31:18
been right on Ukraine. He's actually
31:20
been pushing the Biden administration
31:22
to move further and
31:25
move faster with
31:27
the appointment of weapons.
31:30
We know, I know, because
31:32
it was on the Hill a few
31:34
weeks ago. I know there are Republicans
31:37
who want to get this moving,
31:39
and they are enraged. First
31:41
of all, that eight people held things up. I think though
31:43
now, listen,
31:49
I would work a deal. I would
31:51
say, did the Republicans either get your act together
31:54
or we're going to work a deal with the Democrats?
31:57
And you're going to get run over. What
32:00
happened when I was in Congress? You
32:02
stand in the way of what's best for your party
32:04
and what's best for your country. People
32:07
build coalitions and they run over
32:09
you. You know, we always
32:11
hear that, oh, it's such a small minority. Mike
32:14
Allen, I'll go to you on this one. Then I want to go to Richard
32:16
on another question,
32:18
but I'll go to you. Mike Allen,
32:21
everybody's always talking about, oh, it's such a
32:23
small Republican majority. It's
32:26
such a small. Oh, who could ever? I'll
32:28
tell you who could. Nancy Pelosi,
32:30
she had a small majority and
32:34
we always said on this and people say, well, will
32:36
this bill pass? Will is,
32:38
and I'd always say if
32:40
it goes to the house floor, it
32:42
will pass because Nancy Pelosi
32:45
knows how to run her caucus. She knows
32:47
how to pass bills. I'm just struck
32:49
like Allen that we talked
32:51
about chairman McCall. I know he's
32:53
a very capable leader. I
32:56
know the chairwoman of the appropriations
32:58
committee I worked with her. I was very
33:00
capable. They're very capable Republicans.
33:03
I just wonder at what point do they say, you
33:06
guys work with us or we're going to run you over
33:08
and we're going to find some Democrats that will help us govern
33:11
this house. So that's the perfect
33:13
contrast. Do you govern from fear
33:16
or do you govern from strength? And
33:18
that's the fatal flaw in the
33:21
deal that Kevin McCarthy took to
33:23
get the job that he was never going to be
33:25
able to live lead by strength.
33:27
He was in fear of the tyranny of
33:30
the one in the case of
33:32
the chance of losing the gavel.
33:35
And that's why Republicans are weak.
33:37
There's not somebody who can say, this
33:40
is what we're going to do. This is what we have
33:42
to do.
33:43
Yeah. And, and, and, and either
33:46
go along with the party, stop undermining
33:49
the party, or we're going to run you over politically.
33:51
It's that simple. It's how it works. We
33:54
have people who know how to, how to run things.
33:57
And let's hope for the sake of the country. Let's hope for
33:59
Israel. It's real. Let's hope for Ukraine.
34:02
Let's let's hope for the American people that
34:04
the Republicans will find that person. You
34:06
know, Richard Haas, you wrote a book, your last
34:08
book called Bill of Obligations. You
34:10
also have written articles talking about the
34:13
greatest risk to America is America's
34:17
political system itself. You know,
34:20
I wrote an Atlantic column talking
34:22
about how powerful this country is militarily,
34:25
how powerful we are economically, how how
34:28
all of our leading indicators are
34:30
exceptionally well. I
34:32
wrote it late summer. And yet
34:35
the one fatal flaw continues to be our
34:37
dysfunctional government.
34:39
And here we go again. And
34:42
I think one of the most dangerous times
34:44
in recent history. A
34:46
hundred percent. And that's what makes it so dangerous, Joe.
34:48
I mean, if you just go around the
34:50
world, you mentioned the war in Ukraine, you
34:53
mentioned the rise of China, the threats to Taiwan,
34:55
North Korea has grown its missile force and its
34:57
nuclear weapons. We were talking about Iran
34:59
still have terrorism in the Middle East. You've
35:02
got global challenges. You know, we just got out
35:04
of a pandemic. You got climate change. Yeah,
35:07
that's quite an inbox. The fact that
35:09
we have to contend with that inbox at a time
35:11
the U.S. government is dysfunctional means
35:13
we don't have the resources. We don't have the consistency.
35:16
If you were a friend of the United States and
35:19
you saw what is going on here, that
35:21
would have to, to some extent, unnerve
35:23
you. Where's the consistency? Where's the reliability?
35:26
Where's the predictability that's essential
35:28
for a great power that
35:31
undermines democracy? Who's going to want to emulate
35:34
us right now? So this combination
35:37
of what's going on out there and what's going on out
35:39
here and the fact that it doesn't sober people
35:41
up, what you were getting at, what people around this table
35:43
are getting at, the idea that these people can continue
35:45
with this circus, given the fact that
35:48
they ought to be responsible this moment
35:50
and step up to this challenge and rather
35:52
than stepping up to it, they're stepping back from it.
35:54
Willy. So Michael Schnell, you're
35:57
hearing Republicans talk about exactly what Joe
35:59
just proposed. Congressman Mike Rogers
36:01
of Alabama who chairs the Armed Services Committee
36:04
said, Akeem Jeffries, minority leader,
36:06
we need your help. We can't do this alone.
36:09
There's no, we're not going to get to 217 with anybody.
36:11
Let's make a deal. Congressman Rogers
36:13
calling that small group of Republicans that
36:16
ousted Kevin McCarthy traders
36:18
using that word over and over again and said they'd
36:20
rather be in the minority so that they can just vote
36:23
no on everything and raise money and be on
36:25
on cable news channels. Is there any
36:27
chance of a deal here between
36:30
Democrats and this group of Republicans
36:32
who actually want to have a speaker of the House?
36:35
Willie, I think the prospect of
36:37
that is pretty is pretty low right now just
36:39
because Republicans see working
36:42
with Democrats even more moderate pragmatic
36:44
ones they see teaming up with Democrats for the
36:46
speakership as something of
36:48
giving up and throwing in the towel. Republicans
36:51
worked hard to win the majority. I'll bite it
36:53
being a very small one and they're saying that
36:55
under no circumstances do they really want
36:57
to go you know team up with a minority.
36:59
They say that we need to get our acts together. Now look we're
37:02
a week and a half into this situation where
37:04
there is no speaker and there's no real viable
37:06
candidate on the horizon so it is possible
37:09
that we could move into some sort of coalition government
37:11
at some point that some of these Republicans can
37:13
say okay the time has come. I did speak
37:16
to Congressman Don Bacon yesterday a moderate
37:18
Republican from Nebraska said the time
37:20
is coming where we will need a bipartisan
37:22
solution but I don't know that we're
37:25
there yet and I don't know that there will be enough
37:27
of those Republicans willing to. I will
37:29
note that Hakeem Jeffries has consistently
37:31
said as recently as yesterday that
37:34
Democrats are ready and willing and
37:36
able to team up with some of those more
37:38
moderate and pragmatic Republicans to
37:40
come to some sort of you know compromise
37:43
here to reopen legislative business but
37:45
that's likely going to take some concessions from
37:47
the Republican side whether it be even an even
37:50
playing field on the Rules Committee promises
37:52
to bring up different pieces of legislation there's
37:54
gonna be a hefty negotiation there so to
37:56
get back to your point I don't know that we're there
37:58
yet and that there are no
37:59
enough Republicans to team up on that just yet.
38:02
But is it a possibility in the future? Absolutely
38:05
on this track that we're headed on. Congressional
38:07
reporter for The Hill, Michael Schnell, thank you
38:09
very much for being on this morning. Co-founder
38:12
of Axios, Mike Allen, thank
38:14
you as well. And Mike Barnacle, you
38:16
stay right where you are.
38:17
Really? Oh, yeah.
38:19
Okay, coming up. Yes, you
38:21
will. You're here. You are here for the duration.
38:23
Coming up, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin
38:26
Netanyahu has equated Hamas
38:28
to ISIS. David Branch will join us with
38:31
his new piece for the New York Times on what
38:33
it would mean to treat both para
38:35
groups the same. Plus, National
38:37
Security Council spokesman John Kirby
38:40
will join us once again live from the White
38:42
House as Israel prepares the
38:44
potential ground invasion of
38:46
Gaza. Also ahead, how the Trump campaign
38:49
is defending the former president's
38:51
comments praising Hezbollah
38:54
as smart. You're
38:56
watching Morning Joe. We'll be right back.
39:00
We need to fill the chair
39:02
with a speaker every day
39:04
that goes by that's more dangerous. You
39:07
know, I was on the phone with our friends from Israel, they're going to
39:09
need a supplemental aid
39:11
to replenish the iron dome. But
39:14
they can't do that if we didn't have a speaker in the chair.
39:16
So I see a lot of threats out there. One of
39:18
the biggest threats I see is in that room. It's very
39:20
dangerous what we're doing. And I just
39:22
wanted them to know that, you know, the
39:26
point was fire.
39:36
Gaza and Israel, Ukraine. The
39:38
world is changing in big ways every day.
39:41
Huge lanes and smoke. NPR
39:43
has reporters around the world. Look right there
39:45
in front of us. To tell you what's happening and why
39:47
it matters. This is being described by some as
39:49
a 9-11 moment. We don't know what's coming.
39:52
Listen to State of the World from NPR. New
39:54
episodes each weekday.
39:56
Hey, guys, Willie Geist here reminding you to
39:58
check out the Sunday sit down. podcast
40:01
on this week's episode I get together
40:03
with Darius Rucker to talk about his
40:05
latest album that honors his late
40:07
mother and a Career that was launched
40:09
with hootie in the blowfish and one
40:11
of the best-selling albums in the history
40:13
of music You can get our conversation
40:16
now for free
40:18
wherever you download your podcast
40:25
Beautiful sunrise over New York City
40:27
at 6.6 on a Friday
40:29
morning a little south of New York the Philadelphia
40:32
Phillies eliminated the Atlanta Braves
40:34
in the NLDS for a second year
40:37
in a row Nick Castellanos hit another two
40:39
home runs last night Becoming the
40:41
first player ever to record consecutive
40:44
multi-home run games in
40:46
the postseason Braves are
40:48
out the Phillies will host the Arizona
40:50
Diamondbacks and game one of the NLCS
40:52
on Monday night and the American League
40:54
Championship series opens on Sunday night
40:56
in Houston with the Astros
40:59
hosting the Texas Rangers So Mike
41:01
Barnacle the team with the five
41:03
best records in baseball in the regular season
41:06
are all out and here we are again the
41:08
Astros have another chance to go to the World Series
41:11
and the Philadelphia Phillies and that Stadium
41:14
absolutely rocking again last night back
41:17
in the NLCS Oh 11 home
41:19
runs in a four game series Nick
41:21
Castellanos twice last night and
41:24
the third run they got
41:25
was a home run off of the
41:27
batter Trey Turner they are hitting
41:29
the you-know-what out of the baseball in
41:31
that ballpark and that ball flies
41:33
in that ballpark And I got to say one thing
41:35
after being so upset at looking at the marginal
41:38
crowd showing up at Tampa Bay Tampa
41:40
Bay is a very good baseball outfit very good
41:42
team But 18 19 thousand
41:44
people in the stands for that game to see
41:46
the Philadelphia fans Jam
41:49
that stadium and be vocal be
41:51
unbelievably vocal from the first pitch
41:53
through the last pitch. That was
41:55
heartening I love that That
41:57
really that really was I mean that
41:59
was as postseason baseball. It was
42:01
so exciting. And
42:04
just a note for everybody
42:06
who follows a team that's not in the American
42:08
League East and hear us
42:11
talking about the American League East every
42:13
day. Don't think it
42:16
has gone unnoticed by all of us
42:18
here, that the AL East, the
42:20
three teams from the AL East, 0 and 7
42:24
in the playoffs this
42:26
year, swept Jonathan Lemire. And
42:28
guess what? We were in last
42:31
place in that division. In
42:34
fact, the Boston Red Sox are the only American League
42:36
East team that won a game in October. We
42:38
won of the regular season finale in October.
42:41
The rest of the league teams did not. But
42:43
yes, it pains me to praise the Philadelphia
42:45
sports fan, but that is great. That's a great problem.
42:47
Maybe the best in baseball right now. And I think
42:49
as we head into this next round, we
42:51
can all be united on one thing, to
42:54
root against the Houston Astros. Whatever
42:56
it takes, rooting against Houston Astros, we
42:59
are all Texas Rangers this morning.
43:00
Yeah. So guess what,
43:02
guys?
43:04
Did you know it's Mike Barnickel's birthday? Oh,
43:06
yeah. So you're nice again.
43:08
There you go. Happy birthday. Yeah, I told
43:10
you it was your special day when I walked in. And
43:12
Mike got really mad at me when I tried to
43:14
wish him a happy birthday this morning.
43:16
I appreciate that, Mika, but let me tell you
43:18
something. At this stage in my life,
43:20
if I wake up every day, it's a special
43:22
day. Every day is a special day if I wake
43:24
up. Well, it's a very
43:25
special day today because here's
43:27
just a tiny snippet of what
43:29
we're treated to from Mike every morning right
43:32
here on Morning Joe.
43:34
We have MSNBC contributor
43:36
Mike Barnickel. Mike Barnickel with us. Veteran
43:38
Paul Mook. Mike Barnickel.
43:41
This ball of yours has
43:43
so many places.
43:51
They filled the mums with thoughts of when you were
43:53
young. We'll have some thoughts of yesterday.
43:55
We'll hope tomorrow.
43:57
You come here and the memories just roll.
43:59
They just fall off you like sweat
44:02
on a hot day. Catastrophe of 86. I
44:04
love you Mike Barnacle. I really do. That's
44:07
it. You're average fans. Morning. I'm
44:09
Mike Barnacle, I went for Willie Geist and this is way
44:12
too elderly. Here it goes. And
44:14
President Obama. Oh, right here. Here
44:16
he is. I walked right past the President.
44:20
As
44:25
we look at your life as
44:27
a 15 round time love, you've
44:30
been knocked down several times God the Lord.
44:32
You always get back up. So
44:34
at this stage of this election process,
44:38
why are you still the guy, the
44:41
best guy to be in the ring?
44:42
This
44:48
is a crime syndicate that's been operating
44:51
in full view of the American public, which
44:53
says a lot about us. That it takes
44:56
these hearings to awaken
44:58
and alert some people to the misbehavior, to
45:00
the criminal behavior of
45:02
one administration, the Trump administration.
45:09
This country has suffered great damage.
45:11
None more so than the injection
45:14
into the political bloodstream that
45:16
the election of 2020 was fixed,
45:19
was rigged. What would you do if you were elected
45:21
about Aleppo? About
45:25
Aleppo. And what is
45:27
Aleppo? You're
45:29
kidding. No.
45:33
All facing West toward the
45:35
beach where they landed, the channel
45:37
they crossed. And the land that they left
45:39
had come and helped rid the
45:41
world of the terror that was hit
45:44
this third Reich. I think that
45:46
it is unfortunate, it's impossible of course,
45:48
that every American did
45:51
not get the opportunity to stand
45:53
on that hallowed ground.
45:59
I'll leave his jacket on
46:02
the back of the chair. I'll be right back.
46:04
He just never comes back. That's Irish goodbye. Nice.
46:07
So legendary.
46:07
He's really,
46:09
really, he is legendary.
46:12
And you know, Willie, it
46:15
is. For
46:17
younger people who know
46:20
Mike over the last 16 years
46:24
on this show that we've been so blessed to have him
46:26
here. We
46:28
don't even, younger people
46:30
don't understand. He's one of the greatest columnists
46:33
of the 20th century. You
46:36
talk to people in Boston still and
46:39
they come up to you and
46:42
they ask about Barnacle. Wherever I go,
46:45
wherever I go, they're like, tell
46:47
me about Barnacle. Tell me more about Barnacle. And
46:50
I will tell you about Mike Barnacle very briefly
46:52
this morning, Willie. And I know you feel
46:54
the same way. People always ask how we get up
46:56
at 3, 34 o'clock, how we do this every
46:58
day. We do it every day because
47:01
we do it with people that we love.
47:03
The people that are members of our family.
47:06
And
47:08
you, just like you are a member
47:11
of our family, Willie, and we're a member
47:13
of your family. Mike,
47:15
Mike is not like family to us. Mike
47:18
is family. I've never
47:21
felt closer to a group
47:23
of people along
47:26
with my family than I feel to
47:28
you all. And Mike, Willie,
47:30
Mike is at the center of that. Yeah,
47:33
no question about it. And the reason you love Mike
47:35
Barnacle is because these five minutes
47:38
are making him outrageously
47:40
uncomfortable. He's much rounder now. He's
47:42
very angry. He's going to leave. Yeah,
47:44
exactly. It is true, Joe. And I was thinking exactly
47:46
what you said, which is you wake up at 4 in the morning, you
47:54
come through, you see 30 Rock. That wakes
47:56
you up because you're so lucky to get to work here and do
47:58
this show every day. Mike
48:00
Barnacle you go, oh right. That's why
48:02
that's why we're doing this to spend time and not
48:04
just on the air off The air is
48:07
the best time with Mike. We love him so much.
48:09
He's a role model to me as a dad You
48:16
weren't joking you weren't joking about
48:19
the jacket on the back of the chair in the 2008
48:21
Republican Convention in st. Paul, Minnesota
48:23
We're doing a show three hours We
48:26
take a break. I look around I said, where's barnacle
48:28
in the blue jackets on the back of the chair? I
48:31
just finally text him. Where are you?
48:33
I'm in the hotel room having breakfast I
48:36
said what he said Willie in your life what
48:38
you want to do go buy a bunch of cheap blue
48:40
blazers And you can just leave
48:43
them wherever you go and you can leave any party.
48:45
You don't want to be at any situation That's
48:48
my class going to walk away from it. It's
48:50
the best advice you've ever given us. All right.
48:52
Happy birthday My did you see that
48:54
coming?
48:56
I did not see it coming and and
48:58
I am enormously grateful for
49:00
the time I've been allowed to spend here 16 years
49:04
With all of you and now Mika
49:06
in the immortal words Roberta
49:08
Duran
49:09
no mas Have
49:14
you ever wanted to provide MSNBC
49:16
with your opinion about their TV programs
49:19
newsletters podcasts and more now's
49:21
your chance When you join the MSNBC
49:24
insights community, you'll get periodic
49:26
online surveys about MSNBC
49:29
Visit MSNBC comm slash
49:31
insights to join the community today
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