0:00

It's not nice if you're a

0:02

person on a dating app pretending

0:04

to be single and

0:06

then someone starts calling you.

0:09

Wow. And that and you're

0:11

with your girlfriend. That's a very inconvenient

0:13

thing to happen. Now

0:34

we did have a voice note from Emily

0:36

Peel, not just telling

0:38

us how wonderful we are, but

0:41

posing a challenging question. So

0:44

here is Emily Peel. Hi,

0:47

Jams. It's Emily from Melbourne. I'm doing

0:50

a voice memo because it's relevant to

0:52

my question, which is for Matt. So

0:54

a little while ago, Matt suggested that we ladies

0:57

have a phone call with someone we've been

0:59

chatting to on a dating site to get to

1:01

know them a bit better. And

1:04

so I've suggested this to some guys, about 10

1:06

of them, and two of them have had a

1:08

chat with me and the rest of them have

1:10

either ignored me or completely deleted me. I've

1:13

now asked the guys I'm currently chatting with, you

1:16

know, what's the problem with a phone call

1:18

or a video chat? And they said, oh,

1:20

well, that's very intense. And

1:22

so now I'm wondering what Matt's thoughts

1:24

are about that feedback and whether he

1:26

would stick to his original advice or

1:28

reconsider. Thank you. Appreciate

1:31

you. All the best. Now,

1:36

Stephen, I have some thoughts on

1:39

this because I

1:41

think this forced me to

1:43

kind of really sit and reevaluate. I

1:46

didn't want to just brush this off. I wanted to

1:48

really think about is there a point here that we

1:51

might have to go back

1:53

and revise some of that advice as

1:55

a single man. What's your opinion on.

2:00

someone trying to get on a call before a

2:02

date. I think it says a

2:04

lot about where we are as a society

2:06

that we would rather actually get

2:09

ourselves out the door, go to a date,

2:11

have drinks with someone we don't know, a

2:13

total stranger, than hear their

2:15

voice on the phone. There's something very odd

2:17

about that. Well, let me ask you this.

2:19

If you met someone in London and

2:22

you knew that you could actually

2:24

go out on a date with them this weekend,

2:26

would you, and they said, hey,

2:29

why don't we jump on the phone and say hi? Would

2:32

you then find that intense knowing that you

2:34

might be able to see them

2:36

as soon as this weekend? No, I

2:38

feel that would give me some comfort

2:40

and reassurance, hearing their voice, how they

2:42

are on the phone, speech patterns, do

2:44

we get on, is it awkward? That

2:47

would give me some, because when you're first going on

2:49

the date with someone you've just been texting, the

2:52

fear is, oh no, are we

2:55

going to get there and realise there's

2:57

no real chemistry? Thoughts, Audrey? Well,

2:59

my thoughts are that if, she

3:02

specifically said, guys, that she'd met on a dating

3:04

app, and I think the reason why 80% of

3:06

men haven't responded well is because to

3:09

go from talking to someone on a dating app to

3:11

jumping on the phone, I think

3:13

can feel a little intense. I feel like

3:15

it's all about the way that you graduate

3:18

in communication. So if you go from a

3:20

dating app, the next organic step feels like

3:22

adding each other on WhatsApp or getting each

3:25

other's numbers and switching to text messages. The

3:29

next sort of organic step after that

3:31

would be a voicemail or

3:33

a phone call. If you are talking a lot and

3:35

there's a lot of back and forth and you know

3:37

that they're sat there texting you,

3:40

not doing anything because for the next, for the

3:42

last 20 minutes, that's what they've been doing, then

3:45

it makes sense to sort of say, if

3:48

I call you for five minutes

3:50

or something like that, I think

3:52

the intensity comes from not actually

3:54

having earned the level

3:56

of intimacy where you would just jump on the

3:58

phone because I think... I can understand how

4:00

it would feel intrusive. So I think it's not about

4:03

the phone call being a bad idea, but rather

4:06

there being an organic progression towards the phone

4:08

call. I think the progression matters. And many

4:10

apps are encouraging more voice notes now. Like

4:13

Hinge has a thing where you can leave

4:15

a voice note on your profile and a

4:17

lot of people do that now. So I

4:20

think like warming someone up

4:22

to, we got each other's

4:24

number and I left you a voice note

4:26

that was 10 seconds on WhatsApp. Then it's

4:28

like, I've heard their voice. They're a human

4:30

like me. They're not a weirdo that these

4:32

things do, you're having little

4:35

comfort tests as you go. And

4:37

then picking up the phone isn't such a

4:40

weird idea. Yeah, or even I always

4:42

think calling someone when you're on the

4:44

way somewhere and you're just like,

4:46

hey, I'm about to join

4:49

up with friends in a couple of minutes.

4:51

I just thought I'd say hi while

4:53

I'm walking. You know, I always

4:55

think that kind of call is much easier even

4:57

for someone else to receive than

5:01

for you to be like, just at home,

5:04

WhatsApp, you know, then there's no

5:06

time limit on the call. But if you say to

5:08

someone, hey, WhatsApp, I have to go in a couple

5:10

of minutes because I'm meeting up with friends, but I

5:12

thought I'd just say hi while I'm walking from the

5:14

station. That

5:16

then gives someone the relief of, oh,

5:19

okay, it's just a couple of minutes.

5:21

And, oh, look, they're busy and

5:23

they're doing something. So you can have

5:25

that kind of a phone call. I

5:27

do think there's a difference

5:30

between, if you know you

5:32

can meet up for a quick coffee date with someone this

5:34

week, then there may be no

5:36

need for the call. And

5:38

in the past, I have said that I would

5:40

rather get on a call with someone just to

5:42

be able to find out, as you said, Steven,

5:44

if there is a little bit of something,

5:48

if we get on, if there's a bit of banter

5:50

or a bit of, you know, just good conversation. But

5:53

I also acknowledge that coffee isn't that time

5:55

consuming. You don't have to give up a

5:57

whole evening for a date. you

6:00

can just meet someone for a quick coffee somewhere.

6:02

And if you do that, then

6:05

you don't necessarily need the phone

6:07

call. I do think what gets

6:09

weird is when you're speaking

6:11

to someone that you have no hope of seeing

6:13

anytime soon, either because they're

6:16

in a different city or a different country

6:19

and all they're traveling right

6:21

now and you're talking to them, but

6:25

weeks later you still only texted.

6:27

I totally agree. That seems weird to me.

6:30

I think it's weak and odd. And

6:32

as Audrey said, a good

6:35

graduation, a good interim step

6:37

is if someone is sending you message, if

6:40

you've been texting with someone back and forth,

6:43

as a pattern break, send

6:46

them a voice note back as an answer to one

6:48

of their questions. Be

6:50

like, hey, what's up? I've just walked in to meet my friends.

6:54

Basically, I

6:56

guess I prefer this because blah, blah,

6:58

blah, blah, blah. And then you

7:01

answer their question by voice note. It's

7:03

a pattern break. They're hearing your voice.

7:06

You stand out to them. You're three

7:08

dimensional. And you're

7:10

appealing to another one of their senses, right? You're

7:13

appealing to sound, not just, or to

7:15

hearing, not just visually

7:18

through a text. So

7:20

that's a nice way of putting yourself

7:22

on someone's radar and getting them a

7:24

bit more comfortable with you. If they

7:26

hear your voice now, you

7:29

feel more intimate, it feels closer. And

7:32

then having the call feels less of a big

7:34

deal as a graduation from that

7:36

point. You're also, by the way, saying to

7:38

them, it's also okay if you leave me

7:40

a voice note. That's the whole point of

7:42

the word reciprocity and communication. When you do

7:45

something, you're also giving someone a green light

7:47

to do that thing with you.

7:49

So don't be afraid of the voice note. It doesn't have to

7:52

be the first thing you leave. But a

7:54

few messages in, if you feel like texting has become

7:57

a little bit, if

7:59

there's been a lot of. texting is a nice way

8:01

to break the pattern. And I would like to add

8:03

as a very small point that I think a phone

8:05

call is a really good way

8:07

to build momentum with someone after you have been

8:10

on a date or a couple of dates, because

8:13

it almost, uh,

8:15

links you up in between those times

8:17

and it does make the connection feel

8:19

like it's progressing in the right direction.

8:21

Cause I think when you go

8:23

on great dates with someone and then you're just texting

8:25

in between, it can almost slump.

8:28

Yes. And I actually think the phone call at

8:30

that point is a really useful tool to connect to

8:32

you and make you feel closer to that person. I

8:35

love that point. Cause it can feel like a downgrade.

8:37

I think if we're going to evolve this rule at

8:39

all, it's, I think

8:41

it's what you said, Matt, where it's like,

8:43

it's not necessarily, I wouldn't necessarily use the

8:46

phone call as like the,

8:48

uh, testing ground for like, do we get

8:50

along well enough to go on the coffee

8:52

date? I think phone calls have become so

8:54

intrusive. I think just because everyone gets like

8:56

robo calls now, it just feels like it's

8:59

not necessarily like greatest feeling when your

9:01

phone rings, it feels like some kind

9:03

of obligation. I would say the most

9:05

important thing is to just earn it. So like

9:07

you said, Audrey, transfer from

9:10

the dating app to the WhatsApp. To

9:12

the text to the voice note. And when you leave a

9:14

voice note, don't feel like what I wouldn't

9:16

do is say like in the same voice note, say, Hey,

9:19

leave me a voice note. I was like, no, no, no,

9:21

just leave the voice note. Let it be. And

9:23

you have to kind of earn each of those steps as silly as

9:25

it sounds. I think we kind of have

9:27

to evolve a little bit with, with the times. Don't

9:31

overthink the voice note either. If it sounds too

9:33

scripted and too thought out, then it just comes

9:35

across as a little creepy. Don't George Costanza the

9:37

voice note. He would

9:39

like in the inside and felt George Costanza would like

9:41

write notes about what he was going to talk about

9:44

on the phone in his hands.

9:46

But yeah, don't George Costanza the voice note.

9:48

Well, thank you so much, Emily, for sending

9:50

that in and for, uh, forcing

9:53

Matt to upgrade and

9:56

evolved with the times. Hey,

9:58

I'm always happy to do it. I think

10:00

that what's great about our content is that it

10:02

grows with us. It grows

10:04

with the times. It's not stuck

10:06

in time. And that's hopefully where

10:09

we build trust and credibility with

10:11

everybody is we're never, never afraid

10:13

to say we don't agree

10:15

with ourselves. Absolutely. Or as Steve

10:17

would say, that makes us look weak and

10:19

we should never capitulate like that. I've

10:23

actually, it's funny. I've actually been on many, uh,

10:26

you know, when I've done dating apps, have

10:29

mostly not called people, but it's

10:31

been nice when we have spoke

10:33

on first on the phone, but

10:36

mostly it has been, we just end up going

10:38

for coffee. It's not nice

10:41

if you're a person on a dating

10:43

app pretending to be

10:45

single and you have

10:47

a girlfriend already and

10:50

then someone starts calling you.

10:53

Wow. And that, and you're

10:55

with your girlfriend. That's a very inconvenient

10:57

thing to happen. I

11:00

think you're going to have to explain where

11:02

that thought pattern came from because it sounded

11:04

very random. He's a master of

11:06

segue. I was thinking, well, when Emily sent in

11:08

this voice note, I was thinking, I bet you

11:10

some of the guys that instantly

11:13

deleted her had a

11:15

panic because they had

11:18

either a girlfriend or they had a

11:21

little more going on in their love

11:23

lives. Then they wanted, they had

11:25

someone, they had the potential to hurt. And

11:28

the last thing they wanted was their

11:30

phone actually ringing while they

11:33

were with someone. Thanks

11:37

for listening. And before you go, if it is

11:40

a priority for you this

11:42

year to find your person,

11:45

I have a practical roadmap for

11:47

you in a free training I

11:50

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11:52

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11:56

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11:58

one of them by. going to

12:00

datingwithresults.com. I'll see you over

12:02

there and enjoy the training.