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0:30

What was that? Honestly,

0:40

I think the reason why I am so hungover is

0:42

because it has been difficult to get food. Yeah.

0:45

Are you on the food plan? The

0:47

food plan here? No, I wasn't. I'm not. I

0:49

don't think I might be. Who knows? I'm not

0:51

good at knowing things. Yeah. I'm not good at

0:53

details about my own life. Two people just hand

0:55

me food. Well, this show should be good. Yeah.

1:01

Welcome to the last podcast on the left, everybody. Thank

1:03

you so much for joining us today. We

1:06

can't hear your applause. Your

1:08

applause doesn't matter. We can't hear it. My

1:13

name is Marcus Parks. I'm here with

1:15

Henry Zabrowski. Yes. Hi. Hello. Welcome to

1:17

a very special edition of last podcast

1:19

on the left, sent directly into your

1:22

headphones as you sit in the chair

1:24

here in the steer lounge. And

1:27

Ed Larson. Hello. And

1:30

with us today is a very

1:32

special guest, our man, Dave

1:35

Foley. That would be me. Host

1:37

of the podcast, really. And of course, alum

1:39

of Kids in the Hall. Everyone give Dave

1:41

a hand. Yeah. You're very good.

1:44

It's an honor, buddy. It is an honor.

1:46

Absolutely an honor for all three of us.

1:48

I'm assuming it's a pleasure for me to

1:50

be here. Yeah. I'm, you know, so far,

1:52

so far the evidence is piling up that

1:54

it's a pleasure to be here. Things are

1:56

fine so far. Yeah. And just so you

1:58

guys know. A lot of people

2:01

are super curious about Dave's

2:03

illustrious comedy career and all the incredible things

2:05

that he's done in acting and comedy, and

2:07

we're not going to talk about a single

2:10

one of those things. We're

2:13

not going to broach his history. We're not

2:15

going to talk about the people he knows,

2:17

the incredible show business connections he has. I'm

2:20

just here to talk about my porcelain figurine collection.

2:23

Really? Yeah. They're

2:26

my friends. They're my little friends. You

2:28

kind of look like a humble. I'm

2:33

definitely looking more and more like porcelain as I get older.

2:37

So Dave, your podcast course is

2:39

all about aliens. That's why we're here

2:41

at Contact in the Desert, and it's

2:44

a guest-based podcast. You have a lot

2:46

of guests on. So what

2:48

is your favorite type of

2:51

guest to have? Like military,

2:53

civilian, academic? Some

2:57

of the most moving ones have

2:59

been friends that... One

3:03

was my friend Robin Rizan, who I didn't

3:05

even know had had an UFO experience. I've

3:07

known her for over 30 years, like almost

3:09

40 years. She'd been

3:11

living with this incident in her life and been ashamed of it. It

3:18

was like carrying that around. We also had

3:20

a friend of Tom's who had an abduction

3:22

experience. Those

3:24

kind of human stories. We definitely

3:26

had some really amazing guests

3:29

on, some from the military. We

3:31

had Mariah

3:33

Wood who saw

3:36

a huge UFO

3:38

he described as being the size of a Walmart

3:41

above a nuclear missile silo. I love

3:43

that stuff. It sounds a lot

3:46

like the Hudson Valley incident. Well, that's my

3:48

friend Robin was in the Hudson Valley incident.

3:52

She was there and said her whole neighborhood, a

3:54

thousand people were out in the street

3:56

looking at this gigantic craft. And then

3:58

the next day... no one would

4:00

talk about it. Like everybody just went, oh no,

4:02

I really don't think we're crazy. The

4:05

stigma was real for a very long

4:07

time. Now I feel like, I

4:10

don't know, is it still a stigma? Not in

4:12

this room. No, not here, no. Why

4:15

are you here? How did you

4:17

get here, Dave? How did you get to

4:19

the UFO sickness? Like why do you have

4:21

this? Yeah, has it always been like when

4:24

you were like writing, like having a good

4:26

attitude about menstruation, were you like reading alien

4:28

books in between all those? I was always interested in

4:31

it. And I think, and I wrote, and I did

4:33

write some sketches about aliens and

4:35

some of them I kind of regret a little now. But

4:38

it was always something I was interested in. And

4:44

even when I was doing news radio, like

4:47

Joe Rogan and I would talk about UFOs all the

4:49

time back in those days. Oh yeah, that's right that

4:51

you were with, but that was like before, for a

4:53

long time Rogan was a skeptic. Well,

4:56

he was a hardcore believer back in the 90s. And

5:00

then, yeah, and then I was actually gonna

5:02

go on his podcast and the night before

5:04

I texted him and

5:06

said, Joe, you're gonna be excited to know that

5:08

I'm deep into UFOs right now. And

5:11

he texted back, that's all bullshit. Yeah, that

5:13

was like, what the fuck? He went through

5:15

a little phase where he was deeply anti

5:17

UFO. And then I was really surprised when

5:19

he was like kind of now the face

5:21

of the new whistleblower movement. You

5:23

can thank me for that. Because

5:27

that night after he texted that, I said, really?

5:29

Well, and I texted him a bunch of movies

5:31

that I thought he should watch. One

5:34

of them was Jeremy Corbell's Bob Lazar

5:36

movie, but also some James Fox's stuff.

5:38

And then like at four in the

5:40

morning, I get a text from Joe

5:42

saying, I'm back in. So

5:46

what was it that turned you

5:48

back around to this like new

5:51

renaissance of alien interests? Well,

5:53

I think the thing that really got me was

5:55

James Fox's movie, Out

5:58

of the Blue. Yeah, James. Which was like, I

6:00

think it was the first documentary I saw that was

6:03

well made. Yes, very well made.

6:06

Had Peter Coyote narrating it, so

6:08

it sounded authoritative. And

6:11

it was also just, it was the first time I was exposed

6:13

to a lot of these

6:16

incredible witnesses from military and

6:19

government and fighter pilots from all over the

6:21

world, all

6:24

these amazing stories that I wasn't

6:27

aware of. It was the one that turned both me

6:29

and my wife around. It was like, we just watched

6:31

it on a whim one night and by the end

6:33

of it, we looked at each other and like, oh,

6:36

fuck. Yeah, it was just

6:38

sort of going, well, I like to think of

6:40

myself as a smart person. And

6:43

if this is going on, as

6:45

a smart person, I should be paying attention.

6:47

And how was I discouraged from caring

6:49

about this for

6:53

so long? Yeah, and I guess to that

6:56

point, like what type of witness do you

6:58

consider to be the most trustworthy? Like

7:02

the most, I mean, I think

7:05

probably the fighter pilots. Yeah,

7:08

that's right. Yeah, just because there's, I

7:10

mean, they have so much to lose.

7:13

Well, yes. And that's what they do.

7:15

They look out of cockpit all day. Yeah, and

7:17

their training, because

7:20

there's always that, to

7:23

be generous, I'll call them those idiots. Who

7:26

will say, well, you know, eyewitness testimony is

7:28

the worst kind of testimony.

7:31

And then I was going, well, all right, that

7:33

makes, yeah. If you're standing in a bank and

7:35

a bunch of people come in with guns and

7:37

hold the place, yeah, you're not gonna be a

7:39

great witness because you're gonna be panicked and you're

7:42

not gonna be, you know, you're gonna be fearful

7:44

and that's gonna affect your, but I say, like,

7:47

if you ask me to walk through a park

7:49

and then when I get together and say, Dave,

7:51

tell me all the plants you saw. So

7:53

it'll be pretty vague. I'll say, oh, I saw

7:55

some trees. I saw a palm tree. I saw

7:57

some, there was grass and some shrubs. All

7:59

right. But if you ask a botanist to

8:02

walk through that park and at the other end of

8:04

it say, tell us what you saw, you'll get a

8:06

lot more detail. But if you tell the botanist beforehand,

8:09

we want you to tell us everything you see

8:11

in this park. At the other end of it,

8:13

they'll have incredible detail and they'll have observed very

8:15

closely everything. And that's what fighter pilots do because

8:17

they know after every mission they fly, they'll

8:20

be debriefed even if nothing happens. They'll

8:23

be debriefed on it and they'll have to

8:25

give a full account of everything they did

8:27

on that mission. And you'll definitely have to

8:29

tell that botanist to shut the ever living

8:31

fuck up. Yeah. Yeah. You should like, share

8:33

that with us. The plants, yeah, why are

8:35

you doing this? Why did I ask you

8:37

to do this in the first place? Yeah.

8:40

And that's what makes me just fascinated about

8:42

like fighter pilots, passenger jet pilots, you know,

8:44

that the amount that had been coming out

8:46

now, it's just, it's

8:48

mind boggling to think of how many there

8:50

are that have said nothing. Yeah.

8:53

That they're afraid to come out there. There has

8:55

to be thousands. And yeah, and still, I mean,

8:57

there was like, because pilots who did say things

8:59

in the past, they

9:02

lost their chance to fly planes anymore.

9:04

Especially if you work for like Delta,

9:06

you know, they don't want people like

9:08

that. Yeah. I want my experiences in

9:10

the Delta lounge. It's

9:15

nice to hang out at the Cabo Wabo

9:17

with the, but it's having them fly the

9:19

plane would scare me. Yeah. Like,

9:23

that's not what I want. I do. This

9:26

UFO wants to play chicken. We

9:30

just had a conversation with George Knapp and Jeremy

9:32

Corbell. And one of the things that we were,

9:34

we talked about was the fact that a lot

9:36

of these guys kind of get off on the

9:38

fact that they have secrets. There is

9:40

that other side of it where there, and

9:42

then I also, George Knapp kept bringing up

9:44

the fact that some people do actually are

9:46

like our patriots. Yeah. Yeah. Which I forget.

9:49

Yeah. Yeah. Because the word Patriot to me

9:51

is a bad word. Yeah.

9:54

It's been, it's been colored.

9:57

You know, by horrible people. It's

10:00

a little Brady. Yeah. Yeah.

10:03

Also like, why would you pat yourself on the back

10:06

from just coming out the vagina wherever you're at? You

10:08

didn't choose it. Yeah. Well,

10:11

some argue. I

10:15

don't believe it, but some say we choose our parents. Yeah.

10:19

I did. I didn't, I did. No, man. If

10:21

I, if, if that's really on me, then I

10:24

owe me an apology. Yeah.

10:26

Yeah. Yeah.

10:28

Now, when it comes to this subject, don't

10:30

you feel like secrecy is counterproductive

10:33

to learning anything? Well,

10:36

certainly the people that aren't keeping the

10:39

secret. Sure. Yeah. But,

10:41

well, that's the thing. I mean, I

10:43

mean, I'm, I'm, I'm sympathetic

10:46

to the notion that there are, there are things

10:48

that need to be kept secret. You know, there

10:50

are, you know, there is, there are national securities

10:52

concerns, you know, because

10:54

there are, there are, you know, there

10:57

are adversaries that do wish us harm.

11:00

And, and, you know, and of course they

11:03

feel the same way about us, you know, but.

11:05

Can you imagine giving all of these secrets to

11:07

other comedians? You mean like,

11:09

this is not like just the fact that

11:11

comedians are embracing this subject

11:14

and they're the least respected,

11:17

least trusted source of, as they should be,

11:20

as they're supposed to be. So it does

11:22

sort of seem very appropriate. To

11:24

keep the secrets from us or to give them to

11:26

us. Maybe to give them to us. Maybe the ideas

11:28

you give, let us, like, that's why we're getting all

11:30

these great guests in the UFO

11:32

world. Yeah. Well, you know, well, here's

11:35

the thing. Comedians were, for decades,

11:38

we were really good, useful

11:40

idiots for creating the stigma.

11:43

You know, comedians played an outsized role

11:45

in, in really harming

11:49

people who had had these

11:51

experiences. Yes. I mean, how many anal

11:53

probe jokes have been made? I wrote

11:55

a whole sketch about it, man. So,

11:57

no. Yeah. You

12:00

made many probing jokes in the last probably

12:02

25. Yes. You

12:04

made 25 yesterday. In my

12:06

defense, when I wrote that sketch, it wasn't really about aliens. It

12:08

was about how I felt about being in the kids in the

12:11

hall at the time. So

12:14

I was like, I was really going to use the

12:16

year five. How many more of these fucking sketches can

12:18

I write? Oh, we

12:21

got to be so edgy. So

12:25

on your podcast, which

12:28

guest to you has been the

12:30

most surprising? The

12:35

most surprising. Or even the most fascinating. Well

12:37

now I got to try and remember names

12:39

because I always forget everybody's names. So do

12:41

I. Even my family members. I

12:43

just do it by shape and colors. Yeah.

12:48

I mean, we

12:50

can definitely think. You don't have

12:53

to. You're so surprising. I mean,

12:55

Whitley Streber was a challenging. Challenging.

12:57

Yeah. That's also another adjective

13:00

we can use when talking about UFO gases. Yeah.

13:03

Because that was like, well, huh? And it's

13:05

like so much stuff was coming at us. Tom

13:07

and I were both going, I hold on. And

13:10

what goes, go back to this 11 year old

13:12

who shows up in your yard. Let's talk. What?

13:16

And we're trying to figure out. That was that was a

13:18

very, yeah, there was a lot to sort

13:20

of try and grasp and keep, keep straight in your head when

13:22

you're talking to him. And

13:25

I guess I'll go back to Marielle Woods was

13:27

a really incredible like, his story was pretty

13:30

surprising. There's details I hadn't heard

13:32

before. Do you feel like

13:34

you've you've already opened your life to

13:37

so many psychopaths by being in show

13:39

business? Yeah. Like, is this not just

13:41

a further descent into

13:43

bringing like kind of

13:46

unreasonable, undealable with

13:48

humans into your life? Well,

13:51

I like that. That

13:55

ship had sailed when I agreed to work with the other kids in

13:57

the hall. Yeah. You

13:59

know, I gave up any hope of living

14:02

amongst reasonable people. Yeah. At

14:05

least it gives you a good, like, that's a

14:07

very good, like, barometer then. It's good armor. Yeah,

14:09

actually, I just realized, you know, you know who was also very

14:12

surprising was Richard Dolan. But it was really

14:14

surprising because he was a huge Kids in the Hall fan. Which

14:17

I did not anticipate at all. He was like,

14:19

yeah, he was, he was like fanboying. And I

14:21

was like, oh my God, you know. And I

14:23

was trying to think, I don't think I ever

14:26

remember seeing Richard Dolan laugh. Literally,

14:29

I don't think I've ever seen him

14:31

smile. No, no, he's always so serious.

14:33

Yeah. So that was a real surprise.

14:35

That was a delightful surprise. Is

14:37

there anyone in Hollywood or are there

14:39

people, how prevalent is like the belief

14:41

in aliens and mainstream Hollywood? I

14:44

think it's probably about the same as with

14:46

any other community, you know. I think it's,

14:49

I definitely know people that have had

14:51

experiences and won't talk about it because

14:53

they're afraid of the stigma still. They

14:57

don't wanna be considered crazy UFO

14:59

people. But

15:02

then again, once I started talking about UFOs publicly,

15:06

I was also startled by the number of people who came, came

15:09

over to me with their stories and

15:11

told me what had happened to them. Well,

15:14

before we get, I mean, you mentioned the Mario Woods

15:16

story and I know you wanna talk about that one.

15:19

But before we get to that- I don't wanna talk

15:21

about anything. Yeah. That's

15:23

a real comedian. You

15:27

came out with your own UFO experience.

15:29

Like a very real, credible

15:32

UFO experience. I saw the

15:34

drawing that was done of

15:36

your sighting. Tell

15:38

us about that. Tell us about that night. Yeah,

15:40

well, that was pretty, yeah, that was, it's

15:45

weird in ways that aren't just about

15:47

the UFO part of it. Yeah,

15:50

I was with my, well, you were

15:53

just talking to Jeremy Corbell earlier. It

15:55

was with my friend Jeremy who I'd

15:57

become friends with because I was talking

15:59

about his movie with Joe. on Joe's

16:01

podcast. And so, and Jeremy

16:03

reached out to me on Twitter and we,

16:05

so we became friends. And so after we

16:07

were friends for a few years, I

16:10

was out visiting Jeremy and we were out walking

16:13

his dog, you know,

16:15

out on a sort of a country road. And

16:17

it was a beautiful night. There were all these, and I

16:19

was standing there like looking at all the commercial air

16:21

traffic way off in the distance, you know, and

16:23

going and thinking, wow, this is such a, this would be

16:26

a great night to see something. And

16:28

30 seconds later, Jeremy goes, Dave,

16:30

turn around. And I turn

16:32

around and off right where I had been looking

16:34

at the air traffic, there was

16:36

this orangey gold object, you

16:39

know, about 10 times bigger than

16:41

anything else over there. And it

16:44

was pulsing with this orange light and it had

16:46

three white lights on the front of it as

16:48

it was coming around. And it was like a

16:50

sort of a rounded triangle shape, you

16:52

know, and- Like this,

16:54

kind of like a, like a, like

16:56

a sea yield sign. Yeah, kind of, yeah.

16:59

Sort of like those hearts that are being

17:01

sold made out of quartz over in the

17:03

March area. Oh, I should go get one.

17:05

You should go get one. You should go

17:07

get one, that'll really rebalance you. Yeah, and

17:09

I should get some of the mascara over

17:12

there. What's a

17:14

mascara? Oh, mushrooms. Oh,

17:16

yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They're legal ones. Yeah, I

17:18

have some, we have some, we can get you

17:20

some. But yeah, so this other thing, and

17:24

it circles this valley that we're in. Like I

17:26

said, like it goes from like a two o'clock

17:28

position in the sky all the way around to

17:31

about a seven o'clock position. And

17:35

neither of us, like, we didn't say anything. We

17:37

didn't react to it. We were both just completely

17:39

silent and calm. Neither one of us got excited.

17:42

And except at one point, Jeremy goes, I'm not even gonna

17:44

try to take a picture. And, you

17:46

know, and I know that Jeremy practices getting his

17:49

phone out and getting the settings right. And, you

17:51

know- Like a quick draw? Yeah,

17:53

you know, and I think he's got like a galaxy

17:56

phone with the great lenses on it, you

17:58

know, just for that purpose. and

18:01

me, I didn't even occur to me, didn't even

18:03

think about taking a picture. Yeah. Well,

18:06

that's what they say. That's why I get the

18:08

complaint a lot over all the years of people

18:10

saying, why is there no good footage after

18:12

all of this time, after with all of this

18:15

technology, like why? With every person in the world

18:17

has a camera in their pocket. Yeah. It's

18:19

because thankfully the phenomenon largely impresses

18:22

you to a point where

18:24

you don't necessarily want to take a picture

18:26

immediately. Yeah, well, I actually felt like when

18:28

it was over, because again, we said

18:31

nothing until it finally went off behind the mountains. And

18:33

then Jeremy goes, dude, that was a UFO. And

18:35

I go, yeah, I think that was a UFO. And

18:38

then we started talking, but I felt

18:40

like the thing

18:42

we were looking at was in control of

18:44

how we responded to it. Yeah, that's what

18:46

I, we hear that time and time again.

18:48

I felt the same thing when I saw

18:50

Bruce Springsteen. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Why

18:53

am I not screaming? Yeah. Yeah.

18:56

Yeah. Yeah,

18:58

or why am I still here three hours

19:00

later? Stop playing

19:02

Rosalita. Well,

19:05

I very much appreciated the way that you

19:08

went on Twitter with it. Did

19:10

you draw that yourself? I

19:12

did. Well, that's the other weird thing,

19:14

because I can't draw. But then the next day I

19:16

thought, well, I wanted, because

19:18

I felt like this memory was getting pulled out of my

19:20

head already. Yeah. And so

19:23

I went, so I sat down with my iPad

19:25

and opened up an app I'd never

19:27

used before, immediately found exactly the

19:29

colors I needed, found exactly the tools

19:31

I needed to draw it. And

19:34

like 15 minutes, I went, oh, okay,

19:37

I'm done. And again, I can't

19:39

draw at all. I have no ability. And I- It's

19:41

a very evocative picture. Yeah, and I sent it to Jeremy

19:44

right away and said, is this what we saw? And he

19:46

said, yeah, that's exactly what it looked like. Damn.

19:49

It's incredible. But I do also appreciate

19:51

your responses. Your responses to other people,

19:53

it was the classiest way to say,

19:55

I know what I saw that I've

19:57

ever read. Yeah, well, I- To

20:00

me, it was just, I figured, I

20:05

guess part of my whole career, I've never

20:07

really cared much about what you

20:09

shouldn't talk about, obviously, and

20:12

the kind of comedy that I've always done. So

20:16

I thought, well, I don't really care what people

20:18

think of me. So

20:21

if I can go out and talk about

20:23

it, maybe like lessen the burden that somebody

20:25

out there has who's like walking around with

20:27

this, an experience that they don't talk about.

20:30

It probably also makes you a much better,

20:33

sympathetic interviewer to

20:35

people who've seen some shit. So you

20:37

can't immediately go like, and

20:39

what, you need to take a picture? Yeah, yeah. Like as

20:41

soon as you see something. I know, and it's like, and

20:43

people kept saying, if this

20:45

is real, how come you're, why are you out there

20:48

investigating this and trying to prove it? I said, I'm

20:50

not interested in proving it. I have

20:52

zero interest in proving that I saw this. I'm

20:54

just telling you an experience I had and

20:57

you don't have to believe it. I really don't

20:59

care. Unfortunately, again, Dave,

21:02

you're new to UFO culture.

21:04

So you're being too reasonable.

21:07

So I need you to sort

21:09

of up the anger. I need

21:11

more reactionary energy from you. Yes,

21:14

I know. Cause it's, yeah, what

21:16

I love, and I was talking

21:18

to George and Jeremy, I

21:20

love the people that their whole

21:22

attitude is, I'm bored. Tell

21:25

me something new. I

21:27

don't care if you go to prison for it. I

21:31

just want, I want things to stay the

21:33

same. I want things to stay the

21:35

same. I'm sick of it. I'm sick of the new.

21:38

Yeah. This

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that helps you save time. I

22:24

know I'm sitting on about two

22:26

literal wheelbarrows filled with horse picks.

22:28

Now part of the issue has

22:30

been is a lot of these

22:32

pictures are getting stopped at customs

22:34

because some of them do depict

22:36

various world leaders in horse-like circumstances.

22:38

It seems to be pinging a

22:41

lot of these custom agents' accounts.

22:43

Now, so what I've done to

22:45

do is like, so while I'm

22:47

trying to work on hand smuggling

22:49

these horse picks over various country

22:51

borders, I then also have

22:53

time because Squarespace is doing all the other

22:55

ad work for me to go

22:57

and work on my kildos or at home. The.

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Apple Podcast Show page or the Sirius

23:31

XM app now. Well,

23:35

I guess speaking to go into prison, like how

23:37

do you feel like as sort of a person who's,

23:40

you know, new to this world, like

23:42

how do you feel the whistleblower movement

23:44

is going right now? How's

23:46

it going? How's it going? Like

23:48

how do you see this whistleblower

23:50

movement? Well, I think it's been

23:52

very effectively crushed. You

23:55

know, I mean, it's, but not

23:57

entirely crushed. I mean, I mean,

23:59

you know, I think Effectively grushed.

24:01

Grushed, yes. I think we still have this,

24:05

David Grush is still, I think, heroic

24:07

for what he's done. And

24:11

I think people, yeah, people like Grush

24:13

and Lou Elizondo, these people who

24:16

are willing to really sacrifice their

24:18

own security, their own,

24:21

people, they're losing their retirement

24:24

incomes. They're

24:26

tearing Grush apart now. They're tearing him apart.

24:28

They came out, they told, they

24:30

released his bipolar disorder diagnosis.

24:32

They released all this stuff

24:34

to basically say, they're

24:36

slamming him because he, I guess he's skipping out

24:38

on meetings with Arrow. He's supposed to be going

24:41

to meet with them and they're like, well, you

24:43

didn't show up to his appointment. Yeah, well, that's

24:45

the thing. And of course, no one's going to

24:47

meet with Arrow because they're full of shit. Yeah,

24:49

I guess it's like, it doesn't matter. Everyone knows

24:51

Arrow is a complete sham. And

24:55

so most of the people that are sort of queued up to

24:59

be whistleblowers, none of

25:01

them want to talk to Arrow because no one

25:03

trusts them. You've got, if you got Sean Kirkpatrick

25:05

going around, his campaign

25:07

of character assassination, not just to Grush,

25:10

he's like, he's basically calling

25:12

anyone in Congress who

25:14

is taking this seriously deluded.

25:17

And they're part

25:19

of a religious cult. And

25:24

that's going all the way up to people like

25:26

Chuck Schumer, my grounds, so

25:29

it's like, yeah, there's a lot, not a

25:32

lot to encourage people to go to Arrow.

25:35

Sure, I mean, what Arrow, the way that

25:37

they look at it, it reminds me of

25:39

when Fife Symington, the

25:42

mayor of Phoenix, who was in

25:45

power after the- Still only got

25:47

a beat down, dude. Yeah, well,

25:49

you don't know, like Fife Sy-

25:51

Like the Phoenix lights is possibly

25:53

one of the largest and most

25:56

widely seen UFO events in recent

25:58

times. Fife Symington. The

26:00

mayor came out and said, guys, listen,

26:03

we solved it. We've got the perpetrators

26:05

and he brought out a guy in

26:07

an alien costume. Yeah, handcuffs on him

26:09

and it was in. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

26:12

you know, he's also the dude who

26:14

let Joe Arpaio go wild for however

26:16

long. So, you know, and then, but

26:18

then, yeah, then, but then years like

26:20

he came forward and said, uh, I

26:23

saw it. Yeah, I said, uh, no, I think

26:25

it was, I think it was in, in, in,

26:27

you know, it was, uh, you

26:30

know, a non, a non-human craft. And I, and he admitted,

26:32

I said, and I saw it. He said, I saw the

26:35

craft and he said, I'm, you know, I'm a pilot. That

26:37

is, that was not anything that we have. And

26:40

your name's Fife, dude. What do you say? Kind

26:42

of like grasshopper apprentice to a

26:44

magician. Yeah. Like

26:46

that is the weirdest name I've ever heard for a governor.

26:49

Yeah. Five Simon. Yeah. Yeah.

26:53

Well, when we're talking about like,

26:55

well, his brother Piccolo, Simington. Oh,

26:58

hello. When he come to Arizona, don't

27:00

mind the rats. They are

27:02

my family. Well,

27:07

I guess recently, like, you know, we've had

27:09

a certain, like you have, I

27:11

guess more like alien stories in the

27:13

news. The

27:15

mummy, the Peruvian mummy. Yeah. See this, that's the

27:18

thing I keep, you know, I keep thinking like

27:20

my, my aperture of credulity. I keep thinking I

27:22

can keep it tight. I can

27:24

keep it, you know, focus. And then the, the

27:26

mummies come along and I go to myself, okay,

27:28

that, that I can just, that's just bullshit, right?

27:31

I don't have to pay attention to that. And

27:33

then it turns out you do have to pay

27:36

attention to it. Welcome to you. Followed you. Yeah.

27:39

Because, because there's a lot of people

27:41

studying these things and, and saying, oh,

27:43

these, these are, yeah, these are, these

27:46

are not manufactured. They

27:49

have bones in them. They have, they have bones in

27:51

them. They are definitely some form of construct. They

27:54

don't know exactly, but they do believe that

27:56

might, they might be some form of ceremonial

27:58

baby mummy. Yeah. Which

28:00

is cute as hell. Yeah, but it's

28:02

a whole ballot Baldwin if he doesn't.

28:04

Yeah, hopefully his trial goes well so

28:06

he can play baby mummy. Yeah, but

28:08

there's a it's a whole thing. Did

28:15

you see the when the way they brought it in

28:17

to the Peruvian government when they were doing the big

28:19

hearing when the guy brought in the yeah,

28:22

literally brought him in in two suitcases

28:24

like he was like an old-timey vacuum

28:26

sales. Yeah. Well, that's yeah, you got

28:28

Jaime. Mohsen is and

28:31

again in Mexico. He's a he's

28:33

a celebrity. His show is huge,

28:35

but he is a bit of a huckster.

28:37

Yeah, no, I mean, you

28:40

know, he is a you know, there's a

28:42

bit of a PT Barnum quality to can

28:44

I ask your opinion on the inclusion of

28:46

the huckster in the in

28:48

this world? It's like I kind of

28:51

believe that this is an ongoing argument

28:53

between me and Henry. Yeah, well, I

28:55

believe that the huckster is crucial to

28:57

the paranormal world because unfortunately the huckster

28:59

is the guy that packages it for

29:01

public consumption and then puts it out

29:03

and then the problem is that then

29:05

the huckster is the one who also

29:07

makes the money on top of it,

29:09

which is the sad part of the

29:11

industry the fact that there's an industry

29:13

built around it, but I do think

29:15

that some of the razzle

29:17

dazzle is like important for the

29:19

thing. Well in my argument against

29:21

that is that the huckster is

29:23

so easily disproven that it disproves

29:25

and discredits the entire movement. Yes,

29:27

it blurs all of the distinctions

29:29

and you know, what you can

29:32

consider to be credible. Yeah, so

29:35

I'm right. Yeah, you guys can

29:37

agree. I might have a

29:39

huckster. I'd say that it's like, you

29:42

know, people have ENFP or whatever that phenotype is. I

29:44

think I'm that I have no idea

29:46

what you're talking about. I don't know buddy. Have

29:48

you went and gotten your balls measured? Incredible.

29:51

They tell you your personality by your

29:54

balls. It is over by the court

29:56

still does. Oh, by

29:58

the vibrating pads. Oh my God. So that's what that

30:00

guy was doing. Yeah. Oh,

30:02

yeah. I thought someone

30:04

was just being pleasant. Yeah.

30:07

Well, thank you, sir. Yeah, a

30:10

guy came up to me, grabbed my balls, and

30:12

he said, you're an extrovert. Yeah. Yeah. I

30:16

think the guy grabbing your balls is probably

30:18

an extrovert, too. Yeah. I

30:22

mean, some of my favorite, I mean,

30:25

the huckster for me, like, it lives

30:27

very much in, like, the cryptozoology world.

30:29

Like, my favorite huckster was the Bigfoot

30:31

guy who showed up with a

30:34

suitcase full of guts. Well,

30:36

it wouldn't be like a suitcase. It was a cooler

30:38

full of guts. Yeah, he said it was Bigfoot guts.

30:40

Yeah. And I think it turned out- Don't bring the

30:42

head, just the guts. That's how we'll know. Don't bring

30:44

the feet. Yeah. Yeah. And

30:49

I don't know. When, do

30:52

you think that cryptozoology, like, how

30:54

far outside of the UFO world

30:56

do you go? Do you

30:58

go into the cryptozoology world at all? I

31:00

don't want to. Come on in, the water's

31:02

fine. But then again, you sort of go,

31:05

you know, the

31:07

trouble is you find out that

31:09

there's overlap. There's overlap. And I

31:11

mean, it's like James Lekatsky, who

31:15

ran the OSAT program. You

31:18

know, he's basically said that you can't, you

31:21

can't really do a study of UFOs

31:23

without also looking at

31:25

the paranormal. Because he said

31:27

that wherever the UFO show up, paranormal

31:29

events happen. Yeah, the flaps. Yeah, so

31:32

things happen. So, you know, there'll

31:34

be UFOs and then there's gonna be

31:36

poltergeist, you know? Or there's

31:39

gonna be, you know, cryptids are gonna show

31:41

up. Or, you know, there's gonna be portals.

31:44

There's all these weird things that are gonna show up around

31:46

where UFOs are showing up. And, you know, like

31:49

Skinwalker Ranch is the, you know,

31:51

a great kind of focal point for

31:53

all of it. But he said, you know, if

31:55

you wanna understand the phenomenon, you have to look

31:57

at all of it. You have to look at

31:59

ghosts. You have to look at hauntings, you have to look

32:01

at Bigfoot. You have to, you know.

32:04

Each day you become a worse and worse

32:06

person. Then each

32:08

day more and more difficult to reach, more

32:11

and more difficult to that build a bridge

32:13

to. But who's to say a poltergeist isn't

32:15

an alien life form? Yeah,

32:17

no, well, I mean, that's what they

32:19

were experiencing at Skinwalker all the time.

32:21

You know, classic

32:23

poltergeist activity. And

32:26

they're saying this is all part of the same

32:28

phenomenon. You know, there's a trickster

32:31

quality to the UFOs.

32:35

Yeah. Have you ever heard of

32:37

the Pennsylvania UFO Bigfoot flap of 1973? No,

32:40

no, it sounds like a great album. Yeah.

32:43

Yeah. It's

32:46

one of those cases where,

32:48

you know, people were for

32:50

months seeing UFO after UFO

32:52

and people having like these

32:54

very intense, like aggressive encounters

32:57

with Bigfoots. Yeah. Also,

32:59

are you Bigfoots or big feet? I

33:02

would go big feet. Yeah, big feet. Yeah.

33:04

Wow. You'd be incorrect. Which, yeah. But

33:07

then again, I cheer for a

33:09

team called the Leafs. Yeah. Yeah.

33:12

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

33:15

Yeah. Well,

33:18

I guess in that same vein, like

33:20

some of our favorite stories throughout

33:22

the years have been stories like, you know, the Battle

33:25

of Dulce. Are you

33:27

familiar with this story? Yes. Yeah.

33:29

The gentleman said he was basically

33:31

on the construction crew of an

33:34

underground bunker alien hiding

33:36

place. Phil Schneider. Yes. And he had a shootout

33:38

with a- And now I show you my laser

33:40

scars. Have you ever seen the thing where he

33:42

lifts his belt? He lifts his shirt. You see

33:45

the scars on it, which just looks like my

33:47

father had an old timey surgery where they had

33:49

like, for some reason, his esophagus was loose or

33:51

something when he was a kid. He like carved

33:53

them in half. And so we always had this

33:56

scar across his belly. Yeah. And

33:58

so, yeah, Phil Schneider always shows that. hand.

34:00

He's like, sure what they did to my

34:02

hand. Yeah. It's very sad. There's no other

34:04

way to lose a finger. No,

34:09

I mean, no, I mean that there that's a guy. Yeah,

34:12

that's one of the stories where I go, I don't buy

34:14

it. You know, I'm not gonna, you know, do you think

34:16

there's a like, because with stories like

34:18

that, you know, because I do look at

34:20

the the Huxters and the

34:23

people who are far more

34:25

credible. And, you know, we're kind

34:27

of believers, or at least I'm sort

34:30

of a believer that like paranormal activity

34:32

and sometimes UAP activity can

34:34

be to the average person, let's

34:36

say extraordinarily dull, and it doesn't

34:39

have a lot of zazz to

34:41

it. That's where

34:43

the Huxter comes in. But that's the

34:45

thing is like, is there a, do

34:48

you think that in those incredibly crazy

34:50

stories, you know, do you think there's

34:52

a kernel of truth that kind of

34:54

grows into something that eventually grows into

34:57

reptilians versus grays and a

34:59

character named that

35:03

blows off Phil Schneider's finger? Yeah, well, I mean,

35:05

that's the thing is, it's, it's, you

35:08

know, as I said, I keep, I keep wanting

35:10

there to be something I can just dismiss, you

35:13

know, just, you know, to, to

35:15

narrow it down. And then, then

35:17

you keep going, oh, but then something comes

35:19

along, you know, and to

35:22

a certain extent, it's a certain for a while, like,

35:24

like, I just didn't really want to think about the,

35:26

the abduction phenomenon, you know? And,

35:29

but then at a certain point, I realized, wait a minute, if I'm

35:31

taking the notion that there are spacecraft

35:36

circling our planet, interacting with people that

35:38

are showing up everywhere, it's more

35:41

crazy to not think that abductions are

35:43

real. You don't even know what slippery

35:45

slope you're on right now. I

35:48

narrated a documentary about the hybrid baby program.

35:50

Yeah. And then when I met all these

35:52

people, cause I did the same thing. I

35:54

was like, do I really want, if

35:56

I do this voice on this, that means I

35:58

believe in this. Yeah. And so

36:00

the house is like send me the stuff.

36:03

And so they sent me all the raw interviews.

36:06

And it's extremely compelling. They

36:09

are traumatized. They have dealt with something. These

36:11

are people literally saying, I had a baby

36:13

inside of me. I watched a gray air

36:16

lifted out of my belly. I

36:18

went home. I had no baby inside of me

36:20

anymore. And they're crying and stuff. First

36:23

of all, like, I'm just, you know, I don't

36:26

have emotions. So it's hard for me

36:28

to accept. So like I'm sitting there,

36:30

but obviously there is something happening. Well,

36:32

yeah. I mean, I remember reading David

36:35

Jacobs book, The Threat, back in like the late 90s.

36:38

And at the time, I thought, nah, this is too much. And

36:41

then, you know, but then reading

36:44

more about it and reading

36:46

John Mack, who was, you know, who

36:48

was. He was legit too. And he

36:51

destroyed his whole life, right? Yeah. Yeah.

36:53

Yeah. You give us a little bit

36:55

of a background on John Mack. Well,

36:57

John Mack, well, he was the head

36:59

of Harvard's psychiatry department. And

37:03

he won a Pulitzer Prize for

37:05

his sort of psychological biography

37:08

of Lawrence of Arabia. And,

37:12

you know, he was, you know, pretty

37:15

much as highly respected as you can be in the

37:17

field of psychology

37:19

and psychiatry. And

37:23

he got, I guess he got exposed to,

37:25

oh, god, I'm blank.

37:28

Thank you on his name. The guy

37:30

here wrote Missing Time. Oh,

37:33

Bud Hopkins. Bud Hopkins, thank you. Yeah. So he

37:35

got a, he met Bud Hopkins. And Bud Hopkins

37:37

started telling him about the people he was working

37:39

with. And so John Mack said, well, this sounds

37:41

interesting. And so he started, you

37:43

know, interviewing people. And yeah. Everything

37:49

just blows up. And everyone's saying, stop,

37:51

John. Stop. And he does. Well,

37:54

yeah. And people who for

37:57

no other reason than that he was taking. abduction

38:00

seriously. He was

38:02

slandered by his colleagues and peers and

38:05

he was investigated by his

38:07

university and they were gonna try to

38:09

take away his tenure. And

38:12

they were criticizing him publicly

38:14

all the time and talking

38:17

about him like he had gone crazy. But

38:19

if you'd looked at him and talked to him, you could see he

38:22

hasn't gone crazy. And he doesn't think any

38:24

of the people he's talking to are crazy. He

38:26

thinks they have a real experience and he wanted to figure

38:28

it out. Then he also wound up going to Zimbabwe

38:33

to investigate the aerial school site. That's

38:35

where I know his name from, the

38:37

aerial school site. That's the most interesting

38:39

case I think I've heard. Oh, it's

38:41

amazing, yeah. And the documentary about it

38:43

is fantastic, the aerial phenomenon. No, and

38:45

they are, I feel like that is

38:47

up there with my most compelling story.

38:50

Yeah, well that's the documentary

38:52

you mentioned earlier. I mean, that just cinches it

38:54

at the very end. It comes and it just

38:56

kind of punches you in the face. With

38:59

the aerial school phenomenon. Yeah, and then you, and

39:01

again, it's that thing. You

39:03

realize that these kids have

39:05

been living with the ramifications

39:08

of having this experience. And

39:10

a lot of them, of having parents

39:12

that wouldn't listen to them, wouldn't believe

39:14

them. And the trauma of just

39:16

not being listened to when you've

39:18

had an experience that is

39:20

life changing. Yeah, at least when you

39:22

get attacked by a shark, people believe

39:25

you. Yeah, yeah. We

39:27

got evidence. Yeah, yeah. I also, what I've

39:29

really been doing is helping my buddy. He's

39:31

got two young boys and I've really tried

39:33

to help them get acclimated to the world

39:35

by dressing as a gray and hovering in

39:37

front of their bedroom window before they go

39:39

to sleep. Only just to kind of

39:42

get them used to it. I just do like a slow

39:44

like wave. I go like this, I say I beckon them

39:46

to come. I say the earth's in

39:48

danger a lot. But I just say

39:50

earth's in danger, earth's in danger. Just

39:52

to kind of get them used to it. Yeah. And

39:56

they so far have really been, they're doing well

39:58

in school. That's a good thing. I'm not a

40:00

lot of people take the time

40:02

to do public service. And they didn't ask for it.

40:04

No. That's what makes it

40:07

more generous. Yeah, they explicitly said they

40:09

didn't want it. Yeah. So

40:11

I was like, can you stop me? You

40:14

have to sleep. We're

40:16

talking about this guy who put everything on

40:18

the line, pretty much ruined his life to

40:21

talk about this stuff. How close

40:23

are you to ruining your life? Oh, no,

40:25

no, because there was no reason to take

40:28

me seriously to begin with. Yeah. You

40:30

know, but, you know, I mean, there

40:32

was a chance. I mean, I don't

40:34

know. There may be jobs I won't

40:36

get because, you know, someone

40:38

goes, oh, he's, you know, in just crazy,

40:41

crazy UFO shit. Dude, Dean

40:43

Cain still makes like three movies a year.

40:46

You know, like, there's a lot. Yeah. Yeah.

40:48

They're weird. Well, there's a

40:50

mystery. Yeah.

40:53

Yeah. Yeah. So

40:57

what is the violent opposition to

40:59

it? What is behind the violent

41:01

opposition to any sort, someone

41:03

giving any sort of credence to UFO? Well,

41:06

it's deliberately created. And there's like

41:08

a paper trail on this, that

41:10

there was the CIA set up

41:13

something called the Robertson Panel back in

41:15

like 1952, because

41:17

they were having a problem of things

41:20

like UFOs were buzzing the White House

41:22

and the Capitol and they were having

41:24

over like two weekends and everyone was

41:27

seeing it and everybody was reporting it and

41:29

everybody was all excited

41:32

about it. And so the CIA got this panel together

41:34

to try and figure out, well,

41:36

what do we do about this? And their conclusion was,

41:38

well, we can't do anything about the UFOs

41:42

themselves. So let's get people to stop thinking about it. Because

41:45

then it's like it goes away. Yeah.

41:49

And that was their plan. They used all the

41:51

tools of public relations and

41:53

propaganda that had been outlined. Some

41:56

of it you can read and

41:58

like. to

42:00

Noam Chomsky's manufacturing consent. And

42:03

I forget the name of the guy who actually

42:05

created that term back in the 20s, who

42:09

inspired the Nazis as well.

42:12

And yeah, there's a program

42:15

of deliberate, ridiculed, debunking, and

42:18

explaining, and

42:21

creating the stereotypes

42:24

that everyone latched onto

42:26

and believed. The idea that all

42:29

UFO experiencers are toothless

42:31

hicks in trailer parks. And

42:34

they're all crazy. And

42:36

so that image of the UFO

42:38

experiencer became

42:41

so powerful that people

42:43

who were perhaps lawyers, doctors,

42:47

police officers, air

42:50

commercial pilots, would

42:53

say, well, I don't want people to think I'm that. And

42:57

so they would be silenced. So you

42:59

had basically everyone

43:01

too fearful to tell their truth. And

43:06

it's so effective that you don't

43:09

really, after a certain point, once you create

43:11

the environment of what sensible people will and

43:13

won't think about, you don't have

43:15

to censor anything. You don't have

43:17

to have a big mass of

43:19

conspiracy because it enforces itself.

43:22

Like a lot of people think, a

43:24

lot of people are convinced that most of the

43:27

mainstream press are on the payroll of the CIA.

43:30

And that's why they won't talk about it. And

43:32

that's probably true in some cases. I

43:34

mean, we knew that was true back in the 70s.

43:38

Hundreds of reporters turned out to

43:40

be on CIA payroll. Oh,

43:44

I am as well. Oh, good. Yeah.

43:46

So I'm saying it's probably true in some cases,

43:48

but I'd say for the most part, the

43:51

editorial staff, the writers at the New

43:53

York Times, they

43:55

just don't believe it. And they don't want

43:57

to think about it. And they won't look at the

43:59

evidence. So all

44:01

of their journalistic skills go out

44:04

the window. If

44:06

the Pentagon tells them

44:08

something about UFOs, they

44:11

don't question any of it. They

44:13

don't do any follow-up. They just print

44:15

exactly what they're told by the government.

44:19

And even like, I remember watching

44:21

a press conference, a

44:23

Pentagon press conference, and they're talking about UFOs.

44:27

And the old thing, they say, well, 95%

44:29

of this, we've

44:32

been able to explain, which is always garbage. Because,

44:34

yeah, you've explained the stuff that we all knew

44:36

was garbage. But the only

44:39

part that's interesting is that five you can't. And

44:41

on that, they'll just say something like, some

44:44

things do display unusual flight

44:46

characteristics. And one journalist in

44:48

the room said, what would those be? What

44:51

does that mean? They always

44:53

went, oh, that's it? Just unusual flight characteristics?

44:55

Oh, well, we don't need to worry about

44:58

this. And the fact that those

45:00

unusual flight characteristics are right angle turns at 5,000

45:02

miles an hour. Yeah,

45:05

it would squish anybody inside into a liquid. I

45:08

do think that there's a reticent fear. I think

45:10

there's a fear. I think there's a little bit

45:12

still of the just the

45:14

straight up, that scares the shit out

45:16

of me. I don't want to deal with it. And

45:19

also just that fear of, I don't want

45:21

to lose my position in the culture. I'm

45:25

the sensible one. I'm the smart one. No

45:27

one is. I think what's also

45:30

beautiful about the phenomenon is that it

45:32

does make a believer out of

45:34

you, whether you like it or not. Like I

45:37

think about JJ Allen Hynek. When

45:40

he went into B, he was the debunk

45:42

officer. And then he came out of

45:44

it. You hear time and time again, these guys that

45:47

walk in as a trying to

45:49

be some form of objective observer. They

45:51

see all of this stuff. It turns them

45:54

crazy. Something happens. They bring it. They fall

45:56

apart because the phenomena is going to get

45:58

you whether you're like. it or not. It's

46:00

too much evidence. Well,

46:05

David Grush thought he was going to debunk the whole thing in a

46:07

matter of months. And

46:10

he spent four years researching it and interviewing people. And

46:15

that's the other thing people call that hearsay. But

46:20

no, a four-year investigation by a trained intelligence officer who has

46:22

clearances to, you know, the highest clearances you can possibly have

46:24

in government. That

46:27

is not hearsay. That is

46:29

the result of a lengthy

46:32

and serious investigation. That's like

46:34

saying, you know, the prosecution

46:36

and a murder trial are, you know, they're,

46:39

well, we can't convict because it's just hearsay

46:41

because the prosecutor didn't even commit the murder.

46:47

Well, there is, within

46:49

that, like there's a bit of a conundrum.

46:53

Not everyone can be telling the truth. No, like when

46:55

it comes to when it comes to UFOs, like it

46:58

can't be that every single story. Where

47:01

is the line of credulity? Well,

47:03

that's the thing. I think, I mean, I

47:05

think in general, the

47:08

vast majority of human beings are full

47:10

of shit. Right. You know, we all,

47:12

you know, we all are, you know,

47:14

there's people there. There are lots of

47:16

crazy. There are a lot of crazy

47:19

people in the world. Yeah, there's a

47:21

lot of, yeah, there's a lot of

47:23

people living with delusions. So, you know,

47:25

the UFO community is no different from

47:27

the rest of humanity, you know, the

47:29

connection to the intelligence services is also

47:32

interesting because they also purposefully work with

47:34

unreliable narrators. They purposely work with people,

47:36

promote them. Yeah. And they, and they

47:38

move them through the system. These assets

47:40

are, the whole point is

47:42

that they're burnable, is that they do the server

47:44

purpose. And then we can scrape them

47:46

off and no one's going to say anything. We're like,

47:49

oh, he's just a loser. Yeah. Well, that I said,

47:51

that was, that's part of the program. Part of what

47:53

the Robinson panels recommended was to do that. And, you

47:55

know, and you hear from a lot of intelligence people

47:57

that, you know, military

48:00

people will say, yeah, we didn't really have to do that

48:03

much. The UFO

48:05

community would do it for us. Yeah. Yeah.

48:08

The UFO community has not really been

48:10

the best at messaging. And

48:12

I think a lot of it has to do

48:14

with the lack of belts and the use of

48:16

suspenders. And I think that there's

48:18

a lot of lead and there's a lot

48:20

of stuff in a lot of the pendants

48:22

that these guys are getting from some of

48:24

these vendors. Yeah. And unfortunately,

48:26

you have to sift through all the

48:29

bullshit to find anything that's credible. And

48:31

that's, you know, and again, that's just,

48:33

you know, true of every walk of

48:35

life, you know, if you're, you

48:38

know, if you put away all your critical

48:40

faculties, but then again, sometimes

48:43

those critical faculties tell you, oh, I have

48:45

to believe some crazy shit that I don't

48:48

want to believe. You know, like

48:50

for me as a lifelong atheist,

48:54

I don't like the idea that I can

48:56

no longer just blanket call religious people nuts.

48:58

Right. You know, because now

49:00

I'm going, well, there's overlap there too. You

49:03

know, that, you know, that maybe a lot of

49:06

like the, you know, cause I always thought of,

49:08

you know, religious miracles that almost every religion has

49:11

that I always thought those were just bullshit

49:13

stories told to con, you know, the marks,

49:15

you know, and, but now I'm going,

49:17

well, all right. Well, I

49:19

guess miracles can happen. And if

49:21

you're living at a time and are your frame

49:23

of reference is religious, then you're

49:26

going to, you're going to interpret these

49:28

weird things as miracles and give them

49:30

religious value. But, but I mean,

49:32

as a someone who believes what people tell,

49:34

say about their abduction experiences, I mean, if,

49:37

you know, if, if people can be levitated

49:39

out of their beds and floated through solid

49:41

walls, that pretty much

49:43

qualifies as a miracle. Sure. I mean,

49:45

it's the idea that, uh, any

49:48

technology that it is sufficiently advanced

49:50

enough is indistinguishable from magic. Yeah.

49:54

Arthur C. Yeah. You

50:00

know what? The Greek gods might've, that

50:02

might've all kind of had a seed of truth to

50:04

it. Makes no sense to me as the Bible. My

50:07

theory about a lot of the Greek gods is one

50:09

of my, is that I think that they, famous

50:11

people of the time became archetypes

50:13

and as time went and the

50:15

natures and the actual personalities that that,

50:18

those things were represented on, that time

50:20

passed and that eventually, like they just

50:22

became figures of something. Like Dionysus was

50:25

a guy or a person. It

50:27

was like very, in the old, old, old days, he

50:30

was a guy that like, he always was the party guy. He

50:32

always did a thing. And then it turned into a blown

50:35

out version later on. Yeah, that's quite

50:37

possible. You know? Or it's

50:39

total horseshit. Yeah, or there were aliens. Yeah.

50:43

That did things that looked like magic and

50:45

they seemed to be able to manipulate reality.

50:48

That is, it's interesting you brought that

50:50

up because I'm also a lifelong atheist.

50:52

And so it's like, what is it

50:54

about aliens that I believe in that

50:56

like, I can't put that towards religion?

50:59

Yeah. Well, because an alien

51:01

hasn't like got me super guilty

51:03

about masturbating. No. They

51:06

want you to. They want, they're excited for it because

51:08

they don't want to fit, they don't want to pin

51:10

you to the table and fish that thing up

51:12

your ear or you throw it. They want you to just give it

51:14

to them. It

51:18

might just be an alien that's never asked

51:20

you for money. That's what it is. That's

51:22

the thing. There's no guy that was like

51:24

that wears, I mean, well, David

51:27

Miscavige. Okay. Yeah. That's

51:30

where the scientists do asking for money.

51:33

That crew. The Catholics, the Catholics own a

51:35

lot of nice property too. Oh yeah. They

51:37

can liquidate. Have you seen that? The pack

51:39

of people in like the enterprise uniforms? I

51:41

saw them. I didn't know what they were.

51:44

So I have no idea. They look like

51:46

Sea Org, but I don't know if they

51:48

are. I thought they were, but they are

51:50

their own larping community, I believe, is the

51:52

term where they believe, work and live and

51:55

act as if they are a star fleet on

51:58

their own. And I actually wanted to.

52:00

I wonder if they have dues. No,

52:02

I feel like if they have to pay in.

52:04

I'm probably not the person to ask. Actually, I'm

52:06

the person to ask because I did speak with

52:08

these people quite extensively at WonderCon last year. Oh,

52:11

there you go. Oh yeah, there's dues.

52:13

Yeah, those outfits don't come from nowhere.

52:15

They are expensive. They have all the

52:17

medals and they have all the sashes.

52:19

And unfortunately, depending on where you live

52:21

in California, that you are assigned a

52:24

spaceship. Like you can't just say like, oh, my favorite's

52:26

Deep Space 9. I can't say, oh, I want to

52:28

be on Deep Space 9 because of where I live,

52:30

I have to be an Enterprise. I

52:32

have to be Scott Bakula, has to be

52:34

my captain. This fucking sucks. Oh. I'm

52:37

mad about it. Do

52:40

you know Scott Bakula? I

52:42

don't know Scott Bakula. I don't. I have

52:44

nothing against the rest of this. I don't

52:46

know. I don't. That's all I was

52:48

going to talk about. I've been waiting

52:50

for my end to feel like I get

52:52

to him. Right from

52:55

Northway. Hey, listeners.

52:57

Love this pod and want even

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Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcast Plus on

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our Apple Podcast show page or

53:12

the SiriusXM app now. Well,

53:16

when it comes to close encounters,

53:18

you've mentioned how you've come closer

53:20

to believing in abduction

53:22

scenarios and all that. Yeah. I

53:25

believe the stories that have been told.

53:28

One of the things that we've, I guess,

53:30

discussed on the show is whether

53:33

this is physical phenomenon, whether you

53:35

physically go into a spaceship, or

53:38

whether it's psychic phenomenon. Because

53:40

I know you recently, on the latest podcast

53:42

of your episode, you talked a lot about

53:44

DMT and

53:46

how that might relate to the experience.

53:50

Do you think there's anything to the

53:52

idea that the UFO experiences are purely

53:54

psychic phenomenon? Well, I think that

53:56

was a big divide between Bud Hopkins and John Mack.

53:58

John Mack was a big divide. of the opinion

54:01

that it's a real experience, but not

54:03

necessarily a physical experience. And

54:06

But Hopkins was pretty convinced, no, this is

54:08

something that's really physically happening. And

54:10

he cited the fact that, because

54:12

they have evidence that people are actually missing.

54:14

People are gone for a period of time

54:17

and then they're back. And the

54:19

people in their homes are aware of it.

54:23

So, I mean, I think as well

54:25

almost everything in this to do

54:27

with UFOs, it's

54:29

probably a mix of both. I think probably some

54:31

of the time these

54:34

abductions are just, I'll

54:36

call it a psychic experience.

54:41

Cause maybe they are

54:43

gone to the extent

54:45

that their consciousness is taken away and taken

54:48

somewhere else. And that somewhere

54:50

else could be an actual physical space

54:52

as well, but your body doesn't

54:54

go with you on it. Cause

54:57

the other part of the overlapping is the whole, the

55:00

near death experiences or now what

55:03

some people are calling it recalled experiences of

55:05

death, because we're now reviving

55:07

people who have been dead for over an

55:09

hour. Does that

55:11

work? Yeah, it's apparently- We don't come

55:13

back all weird. I mean, yes. It's

55:16

tricky cause here's the weird thing is

55:18

when someone's been dead for that long,

55:21

reintroducing blood and oxygen to the brain become,

55:23

it's toxic to the brain at that point

55:25

and can kill the brain. So

55:27

they've developing techniques for

55:29

how to reintroduce the blood

55:32

back into the brain, like starting

55:34

like, like basically moving the blood throughout the whole

55:36

body before it gets to the brain. Whoa. In

55:39

order to avoid poisoning the brain

55:41

with blood. If

55:44

I've been dead for two hours and I come back, do

55:46

I still have to work for money? I

55:48

know. I feel like

55:50

that should mean I'm out. I feel like that

55:52

should mean like you're dead. Well, I think the

55:54

doctor should be responsible for you for life. Yeah,

55:56

you were now. That should be like, yeah, I

55:58

was in a good place. But

56:02

yeah, but he's saying, you know, there's the

56:04

Parnia labs at NYU. There's a Dr. Parnia.

56:08

There's a great 45 minute documentary on YouTube

56:10

about it. But he said,

56:12

yeah, he said, an hour, you know, you're

56:14

not, this isn't a near-death experience. These people

56:16

are dead dead. You know,

56:18

these are good and solidly dead people. And

56:21

they come back. And they come back with experiences

56:24

that can't be explained because all of their, you

56:26

know, sensory apparatus

56:28

is dead, you know, but they're

56:31

still, they're having these experiences. And

56:33

there's a certain uniformity to the experiences.

56:36

And I mean, one of the things that's

56:38

kind of a drag for religion is that

56:40

it seems like everybody gets in. You don't

56:43

have to follow any rules. Right at the

56:45

end, you can kill nine families and, you

56:47

know, like play with their bodies, make

56:50

puzzle pieces out of their child's skin. And

56:52

the moment you die, you can ask for

56:54

forgiveness. And God's like, well, that's God. But

56:57

I'm just saying, like, any everyone, everyone

56:59

who dies seems to have an experience where

57:01

they go to this place. And then everyone

57:03

says, oh, I felt wonderful. I felt this

57:06

overwhelming sense of love. And, you know, and

57:08

they describe a place, a place. Yes. Yeah.

57:11

A lot of them. And a lot of them, it's

57:13

a place, a very familiar place, like a field, you

57:15

know, a beautiful field. Or some people

57:18

are in just sort of a light

57:20

filled void, you know, but it's,

57:22

yeah, they describe being somewhere. Interesting.

57:25

And meeting people. My father died for six

57:27

minutes and he said nothing. He said, there's

57:29

nothing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

57:33

You got nothing to look forward to. It's all. Yeah.

57:35

We just want to make sure we leave you feeling

57:37

hopeful. Yeah. Would

57:40

you be, would you do like the not the new, I

57:42

will not do the neural link, but something like a neural

57:44

link. Would you think you'd ever do that?

57:46

You think that you go transhuman? I'd

57:48

probably do that. Yeah. Yeah. Just got to just out

57:50

of boredom. Yeah.

57:54

You know, I just wonder because I

57:56

really do because like they talk about like, you

57:58

know, the human body can probably naturally live. to

58:00

the year 200 and shit. It's like my parents

58:02

hit 72 and they are out of money. Yeah,

58:05

that is a problem. Yeah,

58:07

that is a problem. Yeah, I keep thinking, because I used

58:09

to think, oh yeah, I'd like to live 200 years. And

58:13

now that I'm 61, I'm going, oh

58:15

geez, I don't wanna

58:17

keep working that long. Yeah. That's

58:20

what I'm saying. We should be put in like a

58:22

field or something. There should be a field that we're

58:24

put. Yeah, no, and you know, debt

58:26

sounds really nice. I think that sounds

58:28

relaxing. Yeah, my thought, if I thought,

58:31

I mean, if I thought death was imminent, the

58:33

first thing I was thinking about is that I would wanna

58:36

do is make sure I got a lot of naps in.

58:39

Because as far as I can tell, there's no

58:41

napping in the afterlife. You never hear anyone saying,

58:43

oh, it was great and I had found a

58:46

nice hammock and I laid down for a while.

58:48

No, it's like the pressure of meeting every person

58:50

you've ever known, talking to all your old relatives,

58:52

they're asking shit about like, who's won the last

58:54

50 Super Bowls. You're like, shut the fuck

58:56

up. And Judy, I thought you

58:59

were gone. So

59:03

lastly, what is your case right

59:05

now? What's the case you're obsessed with right now?

59:08

That I'm obsessed with? Oh gosh, I don't know.

59:14

Jeez. Well, I

59:16

think, well, actually right now, the thing that's bothering me, mostly

59:19

bothering me that no one's paying attention to

59:21

it is the fact that like Langley Air

59:23

Force Base is

59:25

constantly being buzzed by something they

59:28

keep insisting are drones. But

59:31

for some reason, Langley Air Force

59:33

Base, where they store the

59:35

top of the line jets for the

59:38

country, it's

59:40

also the front line, if anything happens in

59:42

Washington, that's, they take off. They

59:46

can't seem to shoot down even one of these

59:48

drones. And this

59:50

keeps going on and it's been happening, for

59:52

months and months. And

59:57

they just keep sort of dismissing it. press,

1:00:00

just go, oh, drones, who cares then? But

1:00:02

no, these are, this is, this is our,

1:00:05

you know, this is restricted airspace that

1:00:07

these things are coming into. Yeah. And

1:00:09

they can't knock them out of the

1:00:11

sky. And at the same time, when

1:00:15

Iran sent hundreds of cruise

1:00:17

missiles and drones to attack

1:00:19

Israel, they

1:00:21

were able to shoot down 99% of them. Yeah. And they

1:00:24

just said, and then when we shot down that object over

1:00:27

Alaska, we use the size of a sedan, we

1:00:29

shot down that very quickly. I do

1:00:31

think that that they're full of shit. Yeah. Well,

1:00:33

and then they forgot to watch where it landed.

1:00:35

Yeah. I got my, what I love about the

1:00:38

show is

1:00:40

that I'll get like the emails from people like

1:00:42

at the time they were like, can you remember

1:00:44

the, they said when they shot the object over

1:00:47

Alaska, they're like, the storms here, we can't find

1:00:49

it. And they were all like, it

1:00:51

was clear for a week. Yeah. It was utterly,

1:00:53

it's just in the middle of nowhere. And they

1:00:55

said they saw copters going back and forth and

1:00:57

they were doing something, but it was like, yeah,

1:01:00

well, we're trying this super top secret

1:01:02

thing. And originally, originally they said it

1:01:04

landed on the ice. So it's pretty

1:01:06

easy to spot something that isn't ice

1:01:09

on the ice. So are we,

1:01:11

do you think with all of this stuff, are we getting closer

1:01:13

to contact like to like full

1:01:16

contact or is it always

1:01:18

been this way and people are just starting to

1:01:20

talk about it? Well,

1:01:22

I think it has always been this way. I mean,

1:01:24

it seems like, you know, you

1:01:27

know, that there's, there's,

1:01:29

there's certainly a lot of good evidence

1:01:31

that these, you know, these incidents, these

1:01:33

kinds of experiences have been going

1:01:35

on for thousands of years, as far

1:01:37

back as we have recorded history, you

1:01:39

know, even, you know, even in petroglyphs,

1:01:41

you know, we're seeing these things. So

1:01:45

it seems like it's been going on for a

1:01:47

long time. And,

1:01:51

and this certainly has been an

1:01:53

awful lot of interaction,

1:01:56

you know, with, with

1:01:58

humanity Certainly

1:02:00

with abductions, we're

1:02:02

probably talking, just

1:02:04

in the United States, millions of people have

1:02:07

probably had this experience. So

1:02:10

it's just a question of, are we ever gonna get

1:02:12

to a

1:02:15

general acknowledgement from society that

1:02:18

this stuff is real and it's happening? And

1:02:21

once we do, I still

1:02:23

worry. I don't know how the world works

1:02:25

once we're all admitting it. Well, this is

1:02:27

the thing that's now come up several times

1:02:29

in conversation this weekend that we've talked about

1:02:31

this idea of what disclosure means,

1:02:34

what does it look like? Like I still

1:02:36

have the belief that a UFO could land

1:02:38

on the lawn of the White House and

1:02:40

people would not even believe it. That they

1:02:42

would, now that at this

1:02:44

point, the information is so hard to

1:02:47

confirm. Everybody doesn't

1:02:49

believe in the mainstream media. Why

1:02:52

in the living fuck would they believe that a UFO

1:02:54

is real? Or they would ignore it because, you know,

1:02:56

what does a UFO have to do with the price

1:02:58

of a gallon of milk? Yeah. Yeah,

1:03:00

and yeah, so I've had that conversation with somebody

1:03:02

who said, well, okay, well, you know, maybe UFO

1:03:04

is real, but how does it affect me? And

1:03:07

I said, well, that's, I understand that, but I

1:03:09

said, hey, did

1:03:11

you see that photograph of the black hole? And

1:03:15

they go, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well,

1:03:17

why were you interested in that? Yeah, exactly. You

1:03:21

know, you think you're being rational, but you

1:03:23

aren't, it isn't a rational thing. Well, it doesn't affect me,

1:03:25

so I'm not gonna think about it. No,

1:03:27

you've been conditioned to respond that way.

1:03:29

It's like, I can't care about UFOs.

1:03:32

I'm searching for Kate Middleton. Yeah. I've

1:03:35

got to find her. Hi,

1:03:38

dear, this is a distraction. It's a

1:03:40

smokescreen. Yeah. Oh, I know

1:03:42

where people say, oh, it's all just, it's all

1:03:45

the way for the Pentagon to get more money.

1:03:47

It's no, they have more money than they know

1:03:49

what to do with. They don't need more excuses.

1:03:51

They have, they're asking for trillions of them. Yeah,

1:03:53

they're not, yeah, they don't, UFOs are not a

1:03:56

good public relations ploy

1:03:58

for the military. because it's

1:04:00

basically you say, hey, you gotta give us

1:04:02

more money because we can't do a fucking

1:04:04

thing. We don't know. Do

1:04:07

you find this to be scary

1:04:09

or interesting? Both. I

1:04:16

don't think it's wise to not

1:04:19

be a little frightened by this. Because

1:04:22

I don't know what happened, again, I don't know

1:04:24

how it changes the balance of things if we

1:04:27

as a species all

1:04:30

agree that this is real. I

1:04:32

don't know if that changes how

1:04:34

we're interacting with the non-human intelligences,

1:04:36

plural, which

1:04:39

seems to be the case. Yeah. I

1:04:42

don't know how that changes how they deal with us

1:04:44

if we suddenly become more of

1:04:48

a problem for them, what

1:04:50

happens? So far

1:04:52

we can't really get past the moon too far. So

1:04:55

I don't think they're really worried about us. No, no,

1:04:57

no. I feel

1:04:59

like it's also important that while we're invested

1:05:01

in this material, it is good to keep

1:05:04

a grounded foot outside. It's good

1:05:06

to do things like see it,

1:05:08

be with people that have family. You

1:05:11

know what I mean? Like people do stuff

1:05:13

like that where they go anything else but

1:05:15

UFOs, it's good. Yeah, well, as people ask

1:05:17

Lou Elizondo what he thought what people should

1:05:19

do to prepare. And he just said, hug

1:05:21

your loved ones. Yeah. Because

1:05:23

when that rain of fire comes down,

1:05:25

we're all gonna be screaming, bubbling skeletons.

1:05:28

Even if we're miserable, even if we're

1:05:31

here. Yeah. You know

1:05:33

what I mean? Hug your loved ones and

1:05:35

dynamite. The dynamite's good. Yeah, throw it at

1:05:37

something. Do you find that you, have you

1:05:39

now had enough time yet in ufology for

1:05:41

it to bring stranger or more

1:05:43

interesting or crazier people into your life than my

1:05:46

kids did? Or like, do you feel that you're

1:05:48

still, yeah, you're not there yet. Yeah, no. I

1:05:50

mean, yeah, well, you guys, comedy, like.

1:05:54

Yeah, we just dodge predators. We

1:05:57

just dodge predators and then you just try to make

1:05:59

it to the end. Yeah, you know, it's

1:06:01

no I mean, I think it's actually it's

1:06:04

brought a lot of very interesting people into my

1:06:06

life and a lot of a

1:06:08

lot of very serious people and a lot of you know,

1:06:10

I find it extremely sad. This is probably the only way

1:06:12

I would have gotten to meet you. Much

1:06:19

easier than you would might imagine. I'll

1:06:21

find you now. Dave Foley, ladies

1:06:23

and gentlemen. This is so good. Thank

1:06:26

you so much. Thanks for having me.

1:06:28

Is podcast really is available wherever podcasts

1:06:31

are available? I hope so. Yeah, I

1:06:33

don't know why anyone would exclude it. Yeah,

1:06:35

you've been doing for about a year now, right?

1:06:37

Just yeah, just under a year. I think yeah.

1:06:39

So there's there's plenty of episodes out there. It's

1:06:41

great. I've listened to a few episodes. So please

1:06:43

go check it out. Anything else

1:06:46

that you would like people to check out? No.

1:06:52

New kids in the whole show on Amazon. No,

1:06:54

no, no, no. It's like if they haven't

1:06:56

seen it yet, they're not going to. And I don't want

1:06:58

to. I don't

1:07:00

want to say, oh, oh, I've been meaning to.

1:07:03

Just you're never going to. And

1:07:07

thank you so much to everybody who came out

1:07:09

and saw all of our shows here. Contact in

1:07:11

the desert. Give yourself a hand. Absolutely. And thank

1:07:13

you for contacting the desert for inviting us. Yeah,

1:07:15

I've been a lot of we hope you come

1:07:18

back again next year. This has been such a

1:07:20

great experience. So thank you all very much, ladies

1:07:22

and gentlemen. Thank you. Enjoy the rest of your

1:07:24

time. Bye.