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following episode of Ear Hustle contains language and
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content that might not be suitable for all
1:58
listeners. I
2:15
noticed this while we were talking to someone and
2:17
I tried not to get distracted by it, so
2:19
there's like a medical table and then
2:21
on the wall over the table are six
2:28
dispensers with cereal in them.
2:30
So there's corn flakes, rice
2:32
krispies, bran flakes, apple
2:35
whirls, honey nuts and fruit
2:37
whirls. You're work here right?
2:39
Yeah. What's up with the
2:41
cereal here? Well you
2:43
know we try to be a five star
2:46
area back here you know not like
2:48
the rest of the areas. Nice it's
2:50
also colorful. I fill it up
2:52
every morning I don't like it when it's not full
2:54
it just looks better when it's nice
2:56
and full. Which one do you think is the most popular? Probably
2:59
the apple jacks, the apple jacks
3:01
and the Cheerios, honey nut
3:03
Cheerios. It's kind of sweet
3:05
but it's kind of healthy so you
3:08
get a little bit of both worlds there. Yeah.
3:13
These guys they don't like
3:15
what comes on their tray or they
3:17
just certain things they just they don't
3:20
want it. I'm
3:22
sure like your kids if you have children I
3:24
have children that's one thing you
3:26
could always get them to eat. You know unless
3:28
we get older we kind of revert back to
3:31
our our childish state again. This
3:37
was really not an ordinary prisoner lawn.
3:40
Honey nut Cheerio. I like
3:43
honey nut Cheerio. Did you ever have
3:45
those in prison? No. Yeah
3:47
so we've been wanting to check out this place for
3:50
a while. It's a prison hospice.
3:52
It took a lot of negotiation but
3:55
we finally made it in so that's
3:57
where we're taking listeners today. Nigel
4:00
Poor. I'm Erlon Woods and
4:02
this is Ear Hustle from PRX's Radio
4:04
Topia. So
4:09
the history of this prison hospice is
4:11
pretty interesting. It was started back
4:13
in the 80s at the beginning
4:15
of the AIDS epidemic. Back
4:17
then if you were incarcerated in
4:19
California and became sick with AIDS
4:21
there was this one men's prison
4:23
they sent you to, CMF, also
4:25
known as the California Medical Facility
4:28
near Sacramento. So
4:30
you can imagine back then you have
4:32
all these sick young men in one
4:35
prison often alone far from
4:37
their families dying of this
4:39
terrible disease that at the time really
4:42
very few people understood and the
4:44
idea of the hospice was to
4:46
bring some comfort and compassion and
4:48
really a sense of dignity in
4:50
their final days. To
4:53
get there after you go through
4:55
security you got to walk down
4:57
this long ass hallway. The
5:07
long ass hallway. I don't know if
5:10
this is remember we've talked about long ass
5:12
hallways before in prison and I've never seen
5:14
one so I have to admit I was
5:16
a little bit excited. Was it long? It
5:19
was truly a long ass hallway. So we had
5:22
to stand
5:24
there for a bit and
5:27
just take in the scene.
5:30
This is just a long hallway that goes
5:32
through the prison and I don't
5:34
know where people are coming and going to but it's really
5:36
busy and there's so many great sounds. This
5:48
is Dr. Michelle DeThomas. She's
5:50
the medical director for the hospital and she
5:52
let us down the long hallway to a
5:55
door on the right. We
5:58
just walked into the hospice area. It
6:00
smells very different than the rest of
6:03
the prison. I can't quite... I tried
6:06
to identify the smell in here. It
6:09
looks kind of like a regular hospital ward
6:11
with the nurses stationed at the center of
6:14
it and then you had these rooms all
6:16
around for the patients. It was like a ring of room. Yeah,
6:19
exactly. Maybe it's
6:21
the garden walk around. Can
6:24
we come in? Nigel. Nigel.
6:28
Can we come in? Hi,
6:33
Mario. So
6:36
we walked into one of the rooms and were introduced
6:38
to a patient named Mario. How are you? They want to
6:40
know how you like it here. Excellent.
6:44
Hi, Laurie.
6:47
Mario was wearing this blue knit hat
6:50
that was kind of... Almost
6:52
bigger than his head? Yes. Where
6:56
did you get your hat? Did someone make that
6:59
for you? We have
7:01
a group that crochets and all the patients
7:03
usually get one. They'll come and ask them
7:05
what their favorite football team maybe or their
7:08
favorite color and they crochet them up. This
7:10
is one of the incarcerated guys who work
7:12
in the hospice. They have like
7:14
a knitting circle? Yes, they do. We have
7:17
one of our workers here, Billy Ray, and
7:19
he's bigger than me. Big, muscular marine. I
7:21
always tell him, I say, you
7:24
pretty little ass on down there, crochet class.
7:26
All the tough guys sit around and they
7:28
crochet hats for the patients. It's just sweet
7:30
as hell. So much love into
7:32
these hats and the patients love them. He's
7:36
in a rocket house. He
7:41
brought the boom box. A couple of
7:43
booms over, we met another patient, a
7:45
guy named Mr. Roberts. He was also this
7:48
tiny wisp of a man lying in
7:50
the bed. You could barely register that
7:52
there was a body there underneath all
7:54
those sheets and blankets. But
7:57
he was getting a visit from the music
7:59
therapist. You're gonna sing it,
8:01
right? Cause you love this song. Hey,
8:10
good lookin' What you got
8:14
cookin' How
8:17
about cookin' This visit with Mr. Roberts
8:19
made us rethink some of what we
8:21
had hoped to do on this reporting
8:23
trip. Yeah, I think we were hoping
8:25
to really get to know people. Mm-hmm. And
8:29
based on some of their conditions, that wasn't
8:31
possible. I mean, a lot of
8:33
these people we were meeting here were
8:35
at this point where they were withdrawing.
8:38
And I felt uncomfortable intruding during
8:40
this really profound transition. I mean,
8:43
Erlon, we were strangers to them. Right.
8:45
I mean, I think this trip
8:47
became less about one individual person
8:49
and more about hospice itself, you
8:52
know? Alright.
8:59
Thank you. Have a good day. Thank
9:01
you. But
9:04
you know what? There were some
9:07
surprises. Hi, Alan.
9:09
How long have you been here? Twenty-four
9:13
hours. Alan
9:16
looked like he was in his sixties, but it was a
9:18
little hard to tell. He was
9:20
in a wheelchair, really hunched over. He
9:23
told us he had cancer and had chosen
9:25
to spend his last months here in
9:27
the prison hospice. They
9:30
say there's four stages to accepting
9:32
a scenario like this. Dr.
9:36
Elizabeth Kula Ross? Yeah. So
9:42
I'm going through all four of those stages. And
9:47
E, you weren't in the room at this point,
9:50
so it was just me and our editor, Amy. And she was
9:52
holding the microphone, and she had to really
9:54
lean in close to Alan because his voice
9:56
was so faint, and there were these really
9:58
long pauses. And
10:01
I gotta tell you, I had a real
10:03
moment there. I just felt uncomfortable
10:05
and awkward, and it was like, what are
10:07
we doing here? What are we trying to get
10:09
from these people? So Amy
10:12
stepped up and took over why you
10:14
got your shit together. Exactly. What
10:17
stage are you at right now, do you think? I
10:22
guess I'm accepting a better food of your life.
10:25
I have a master's degree in psychology. I
10:29
survived in Marine Corps boot camp. So
10:36
I guess I'm ready to go. How
10:42
do you feel about that, is that scary or not?
10:49
No, not so much. Sorry,
10:54
I can't think of anything. You
10:57
look like you're thinking very hard. Just
11:05
riding the wave. Is
11:10
there anything we should ask you, or anything you'd
11:12
like to say? Gosh,
11:21
I wish I had gone to the office
11:23
more. That's
11:28
a good one. I know, that cracked me up. And
11:30
you know what I think, Erlon? That
11:32
comment kind of helped me get back
11:34
on track. Right, I mean, it's just
11:37
another conversation about weird shit, we do it
11:39
all the time. I
11:42
never met a drug I didn't like. Well,
11:47
it's been 30 years, so I just did any
11:49
LSC. What
11:55
was your favorite drug? I
11:57
got so many. and
12:00
the methylene, DMT, which
12:04
is sure acting psychedelic. Can
12:09
you describe what that feels like? It's
12:12
kind of like the visual
12:15
perception of LLC that
12:19
it's all in about an hour. This
12:24
is hard to hear, but what Amy just asked
12:26
him was, did your ego die? Not
12:30
so much with DMT mushrooms
12:33
and the LSE. You
12:36
can say that. What does that
12:38
feel like? It's
12:41
inevitable. I
12:44
can't sort of hear it. Do you
12:46
think that death might feel
12:48
anything like that? I
12:53
wouldn't think so. The
12:58
light goes out. You
13:02
don't have a little pain. Man,
13:07
I had almost 10,000 songs
13:10
on my iTunes. That's
13:14
a bummer. I'm
13:16
not going to be able to hear those again. I
13:24
guess I'm
13:27
done. Thank
13:30
you very much. Thank you. We
13:41
just stepped out into a garden that's
13:43
behind the hospice unit. Looks like there's
13:46
a fountain out here. There's
13:48
little covered areas. It's very pleasant. There's
13:50
a view of the
13:52
hills in the background. There's
13:55
lots of plants around here. It looks like you
13:57
can stroll around. For
14:00
the most part, the hospice
14:02
looked like a pretty regular
14:04
hospital, you know? But
14:06
this garden they have is like
14:08
one of those Zen type meditation
14:10
gardens, you know? I'm getting very excited
14:13
just thinking about it. I have never seen anything like it
14:15
in a prison before. And I'm going to use two words
14:17
to describe it that I never think about when I think
14:19
of prison. What was that?
14:22
It was delightful and exhilarating
14:24
and also restful. That's three.
14:26
Three. Okay. Three
14:28
words. And that's the heart of the hospice program. So
14:33
starting up here, we
14:35
have our citronella
14:38
and that is the plant there with the pinkish
14:40
thing. They call that the
14:42
mosquito plant. It repels the mosquitoes. They
14:46
don't like this. One
14:48
of the incarcerated workers here gave us a
14:51
tour of all the plants. And
14:53
these are currants and the currants you
14:55
could eat the berries. So
14:57
they usually come out a light, a medium and
15:00
a dark berry. People warned us, if
15:02
you talk to this guy, you are going to get
15:04
a very extensive tour
15:06
of this garden. Okay. Now
15:08
we have this. This is a desert willow.
15:10
We'll go around and see the butterfly plant.
15:12
Right here we have our lavender, chicks in
15:14
here. And we have a lot of little
15:16
lizards to fly around here. So here's your
15:18
aldeberry. Now that's the one that has medicinal
15:20
for... Yeah. So eventually
15:22
we extricated ourselves from this very
15:25
thorough tour. Yes, we did. Because
15:28
we heard there was someone else we should be
15:30
talking to. He
15:32
has a hole with him. Oh, he really
15:34
does have a hole with him. He wasn't kidding. You
15:36
tend the garden? Have we started recording?
15:40
Yeah. Oh, we never
15:42
turned off the recorder. My
15:44
name is Joe Bick and I am
15:46
a physician who's been working in the Department of
15:48
Corrections for the last 30 years this month. This
15:53
guy is the head honcho of
15:55
health services for all California prisons.
15:58
He's a real big one. But
16:00
on this day, he was just regular gardener.
16:04
One of the things I was thinking about standing out here is
16:07
that I see something here that
16:09
I haven't seen at any other prison in
16:11
the United States, and that is areas of
16:13
shade, quiet, and that there's a little bit
16:16
of privacy that's created by the armor here.
16:18
And so this actually, oddly, does not feel
16:20
like being in prison. And
16:23
when you look at it, you realize it's not that hard
16:25
to create this, but it certainly
16:27
isn't created in very many spaces. Thank
16:31
you for that feedback. That's exactly what we're
16:33
trying to capture. All
16:35
of this was done in consultation with the people
16:37
who were living and dying here and the people
16:40
that work here, asking them, what
16:42
is it that you want in this space? People
16:45
said, I want to put my feet in
16:47
the grass. And
16:49
people will come out here and lay in that grass. I
16:52
want the movement of a swing. I
16:55
want to see things moving, like this
16:57
tree, this chautaupe, that was picked because
16:59
it sways in the wind, it
17:02
has beautiful flowers. Yeah. It
17:04
seems like you can meander out here, which is not
17:06
something you can really do inside of a tree. You
17:08
can. And you can find your space. There
17:12
are people that want a space with a
17:14
lot of people who want to talk. There
17:16
are other people that are facing death, they
17:18
want a space where they're more private, so
17:20
they can be by themselves, or maybe they
17:22
and their family want some place that's private.
17:26
Can one of my downhairs
17:28
still lie down here? You can. Can
17:30
I? You can. I'm
17:32
going to lie down here, sorry. Isn't it just like a nice place to
17:34
sit down? No, just to lie down and
17:36
look up. In this grass?
17:40
Erland, I can barely express to you how astonishing
17:42
it was to lie down in that grass. Yeah.
17:46
I just couldn't do it. Why not?
17:48
Why couldn't you join me down there? Well,
17:51
I mean, you know, there's some things that, you know,
17:53
you can do and there's some things that I can't
17:55
do. But you can't get prone? No, I can, but,
17:58
you know, I'm not that kind of person. there
18:00
no more like that so huh yeah
18:02
I know I don't understand what that means
18:04
I know I
18:08
can't do it I'm not there no more
18:11
like that so that don't make
18:13
sense to you neither no I think I get
18:15
it as a previous prisoner there's some things that
18:17
I probably won't do just on the string of
18:19
doing it okay I get it but
18:22
Erlon it was glorious oh you
18:24
look good you looked at very peaceful I
18:26
was so I
18:37
decided this was going to be a really great place
18:39
to do an interview and Erlon
18:41
you didn't mind holding the mic no I had
18:43
to stand there and do production work night
18:46
but a team
18:49
my name is Jeff Maria and I'm
18:52
sitting in the hospice garden are you
18:54
really sitting oh I am laying down
18:56
on a bed of grass I'm looking
18:59
up at the blue sky smells good
19:01
out here nice fresh air and got
19:03
the sun on my face just
19:07
laying on the grass like when I
19:09
was a kid yeah what do you think about when you're
19:11
actually laying on the grass right now I'm living in the
19:13
moment yeah
19:17
I was so struck by this
19:19
experience that in prison you know
19:22
there was this real sense of ease
19:24
and relaxation and we're not
19:26
just in prison we're in a hospice
19:29
where people are dying and that there
19:31
was this really connective beautiful moment
19:34
lying in that grass with him and talking
19:36
I'll never actually will never forget it I
19:39
don't think he gonna forget that even when
19:42
the last time you laid down with a
19:45
woman and had a conversation in the grass
19:47
oh you know forever forever I
19:50
mean I've been in prison myself 44 years now ever
19:54
since I was 17 years old Jeff
19:59
is was called a piece or pastoral
20:01
care service worker. He's an incarcerated
20:03
guy here at the prison and
20:05
his job here is to care
20:07
for the man who are dying.
20:09
And when a person is really at the end of their
20:11
life, like the doctors say they are
20:13
72 hours away from death, Jeff
20:16
and the other incarcerated workers start a
20:18
vigil. So that means that
20:20
at all times a PCS worker is
20:23
by their bedside so that no person
20:25
has to die alone. Do you
20:29
think there's such thing as a good death? Absolutely.
20:32
What is it? Well
20:36
I think it's the the
20:38
patient is comfortable. He doesn't
20:40
have a lot of fear. You know
20:42
I mean everybody can be anxious about
20:44
the unknown but if
20:46
he's comfortable he has people around
20:48
him that he trusts so he
20:50
doesn't feel vulnerable. We do
20:53
what we can to bring
20:55
the family in to him either you
20:57
know on the video or in person.
21:00
A lot of times we'll roll their whole bed
21:02
out here and then the family will be out
21:04
here and they can stay out here
21:06
and visit all day with them. Do
21:09
you talk to them about their fears? Sure. I'm
21:12
there to hold their hand if that's if
21:14
that makes them feel better or just listen
21:17
to them. Sometimes they just like to tell
21:19
stories about their life. Sometimes
21:22
you know they will talk to you about things
21:24
that they're ashamed of or they feel bad and
21:26
they want to get it off their chest and
21:29
let it go. It's not creepy or weird
21:31
like you might think or scary. It's
21:34
at least for me it's nothing like
21:36
that. What is
21:38
it? I
21:40
think it's sacred. I think it's it's
21:43
a privilege. It's an honor that somebody that
21:46
in their most vulnerable state allows you to
21:48
be in that space with them. Do
21:51
you think it is the worst thing to die in prison?
21:56
Well it's relative right it
21:58
depends on the person. We've
22:01
had patients that have been in prison
22:03
a long time that have nobody and
22:05
nothing out there. And they're
22:07
like, you know, I'm good here. I'm
22:10
getting taken care of here. I'm
22:12
comfortable and I'm
22:15
okay. I'm
22:22
Alan Kronitzky, PCS worker here. This
22:24
is my friend. I'm
22:26
Jerry Judson. I'm also a PCS worker
22:28
here. We
22:31
met Alan earlier when he was taking care of
22:33
Mario. The guy with the knit cap.
22:36
Right. And at this point, Alan was taking a
22:38
break in the garden with his friend, Jerry.
22:41
You know, we're really lucky that
22:44
we have the opportunity to
22:46
do something like this. These
22:49
kind of chances just don't exist behind
22:52
bars. It's
22:55
a way for us to make amends
22:58
for the wrongs that we've done in
23:00
our lives. So
23:02
I'm very grateful. There's
23:07
sometimes when someone passes away, it's very
23:09
traumatic. You know, there's sometimes I'll
23:11
tag out. We had the
23:13
guy here had bone cancer when he was so young. He was
23:15
too young. He was in the 20s. And
23:18
it breaks your freaking heart. That's several times a
23:20
day, every day. You know, he's
23:22
a kid and there was one point and they said
23:24
he wanted me to give him a back rub. I
23:26
had to tag out with somebody else. I said, I can't
23:28
do it right now. I think we're
23:30
out in the garden to cry. Dude's in his 20s. He's a
23:32
kid. It's hard, you know. But
23:35
as much as I tell myself, like, I can't do
23:37
this anymore. This is hard. This is too hard. I
23:39
tell myself that as I'm walking up the hallway to come to work.
23:44
What is it about you as individuals
23:46
that don't think about
23:49
it, really think about it. And don't it be
23:51
modest, but why? Like, why are you so compassionate?
23:53
Why do you give so much care? I
23:56
cause someone to die without
23:59
a loved one. sitting there
24:01
and telling them, hey, it's gonna be all
24:03
right. It's gonna be okay. We love you.
24:05
We're here with you. So
24:07
what can I do now? Is
24:10
to be there for those that don't have that.
24:14
The guilt is real. Are
24:21
you hunting me down, huh? Are you hunting you down,
24:23
is that okay? That's all right, yes, I'm okay with
24:26
it. Can you introduce yourself? My
24:29
name's Michael Powell. Excuse
24:32
me. Yeah. And
24:36
I'm being treated for brain cancer. So
24:41
Michael, he's kind of this big, very pale
24:43
guy. And Erlon, remember he was wearing that
24:46
cap on his head that looked like it
24:48
had all kinds of electrodes coming out of
24:50
it. Like the Gaga quarters? Yeah,
24:52
it looked like quarters on his head. I mean, it was clearly some
24:54
kind of treatment he was getting. Yeah. And
24:59
you're out in the garden? Yes.
25:02
And the nurses are gonna walk you around?
25:05
I walk by myself out here, but they check on
25:07
me all the time. Yeah? Yeah. What do you think
25:10
about this garden? Oh, it's beautiful. I
25:12
came from a place that medical
25:16
treatment for him is
25:21
kind of lacking. Sorry.
25:26
That's okay. It's hard. Well,
25:28
he misdiagnosed me for two and a half
25:31
years. So
25:33
two and a half years
25:35
is important. It is. Yeah.
25:38
What were your symptoms during that
25:41
time? Severe headaches. So
25:43
they said I had science infections. So
25:47
that's what they treated me for. And
25:51
then I went to saw
25:54
a real doctor. And
25:56
he said this ain't
25:58
no science infection. And
26:02
within five days they took it out.
26:04
And how long ago was that? January
26:06
16th. January. So that's about
26:09
five months ago. Right.
26:12
So the cancer that I have,
26:14
they say 24 months to 90.
26:21
That's a lot to take in for anybody. Yeah.
26:24
After doing 20 years of prison, yeah. So
26:28
how? I apologize. I
26:31
wish I could hold your hand. I'm not allowed to,
26:33
but I'm sorry that you're feeling
26:36
this way. Yeah. Michael
26:47
was expecting to be released from prison in
26:49
about five years. But the
26:51
cancer diagnosis makes it unlikely he'll live
26:54
that long. So
26:57
he's applying for what's called compassionate
27:00
release. It's a California law
27:02
that lets people apply to be released from
27:04
prison if a doctor says they're
27:06
at the very end of their life. A
27:09
place to try to send me to
27:11
is by my family. I
27:15
look forward to just go out and have a hamburger. Yeah.
27:18
Give me some pizza. Yeah. Why
27:21
do you want a hamburger? Oh, we
27:24
very rarely get real meat around here. That's true.
27:26
Yeah. If you
27:28
could take a walk anywhere, where would you go? The
27:33
beach. Yeah, go to the beach. Yeah.
27:36
I hope you get to do that. I will. What's
27:43
the best part of the day for you? Writing
27:47
a letter, coming out here and hanging out. Yeah.
27:50
Yeah. And what are the
27:52
most difficult times of the day? Getting up in the
27:54
morning. Really? Why? I
27:56
just, I'm still here. So there's
27:58
not a... good feeling though when
28:01
you wake up in the morning and you're
28:03
still here? I mean that you're still alive.
28:05
Yes well the still alive part yeah but
28:08
no one wants to die
28:12
in custody. You
28:17
just don't want to die in custody. Yeah.
28:22
Yeah.
28:24
Is it the pain that's more scary
28:27
than the emotional part? I've
28:31
been stabbed. I've been shot
28:33
up more times than I know and so it's
28:37
never I've never been scared of that but
28:42
knowing it's coming I think is but
28:45
now you don't know when. Yeah. You know. I
28:47
could get hit by a bus the
28:50
day I get out so. Yeah. Who knows I
28:53
just don't want to be miserable when I go. Mr.
29:06
Powell when we came out here what were you about to
29:08
do out here? Just walk. Just
29:10
walk? Yeah. What part of the
29:12
garden do you like to spend time in? Over
29:15
there there's hummingbirds down
29:17
there by the swings.
29:19
Yeah. Yeah. Do you hang out
29:21
in that swing? Yeah I sit over
29:23
there usually on the sunny side though just
29:25
get some sun. Yeah. Can we walk over
29:28
there with you? Yeah.
29:30
This would a hummingbirds come? They come
29:32
over here. Don't be by in a
29:35
minute. I
29:43
remember we sat there for a while with him
29:46
just kind of quietly swinging on the
29:48
bench in the gazebo and I
29:51
think the garden was doing what it was supposed to do.
29:54
It was really peaceful. On
29:56
that note I think we should take a break. Let's
29:59
do it. It's
30:14
that time again. Time to make the
30:17
donuts? What the hell? You
30:19
have to have grown up in the 80s to
30:22
get to that one. Nah, it's time for another
30:24
Catch a Kite episode. In case you're not
30:26
familiar, Catch a Kite is a
30:28
Q&A episode in which listeners ask
30:30
questions about life in prison and
30:32
get answers from incarcerated folks. This
30:35
season, we'll be switching things up. Listeners
30:37
might not know that people inside many
30:40
U.S. prisons can now hear ear hustle
30:42
on prison tablets, kinda like a bulky
30:45
iPad. Yeah, but a lot less fancy.
30:47
So here's how it's gonna work. We're
30:50
asking you, our listeners, to send
30:52
us audio questions about life inside
30:54
prison. We'll get those questions
30:56
answered by incarcerated people around the country
30:59
who listen to ear hustle on their
31:01
tablets. You know, we've never
31:03
taken listener questions to prisons outside
31:05
California, so this is a first
31:07
for us. Indeed. To submit
31:10
your question, leave us a voicemail at 510-906-1569
31:12
or send a voicemail to info at
31:19
earhustlesq.com. Include
31:21
your name and where you're calling from, and please
31:23
keep your questions to under 30 seconds. Get
31:26
your questions to us by March 27th. That
31:29
number one more time is 510-906-1569 or send
31:31
a voicemail to info at
31:33
earhustlesq.com. I'm
31:53
Chaplain Keith Knopf. I'm
31:55
the Director of Pastoral Care in the
31:58
hospice here. here
32:00
for 27 years? All
32:04
prisons have chaplains but here at the
32:06
hospice it's a little different. You
32:09
know there's a part of Knopf's job that's
32:11
like being a private eye
32:15
because a lot of these men haven't seen
32:17
their families in decades and
32:19
sometimes they want to make contact again
32:21
before they die. So
32:23
a lot of our patients they come
32:25
to us and they haven't had contact
32:27
with their families in 20-30 years and
32:29
it's for a lot of different reasons.
32:31
We have you know 30 plus institutions
32:34
in the state of California and they get
32:37
lost in the shuffle and so then they
32:39
just lose where the family member is and
32:41
sometimes because of the crimes
32:43
they back away. And
32:46
so in our hospice though we want
32:48
to make sure that we
32:50
locate families so they
32:52
can be notified and also to give them
32:55
an opportunity for some kind
32:57
of restoration so that the patient can
32:59
make amends with the families so
33:01
there can be some reconciliation to take place
33:04
so the families can receive
33:06
some closure and
33:08
so our patients can leave this world having
33:11
closure for themselves as well. Knopf
33:17
told us about this one guy who had lost
33:19
touch with his family. The
33:21
guy told Knopf that he had an aunt
33:23
and uncle who had died and four cousins
33:25
but he had no idea where they were.
33:28
So Knopf had to track them down.
33:31
I prayed about it and I thought
33:35
about the
33:37
fact that the aunt and uncle had a
33:39
house and that house
33:42
probably was sold and
33:45
so I knew where the address was. I
33:48
called the various realtors in the
33:51
area and I found out who
33:54
sold the house and
33:56
I asked them if they could give me the
33:58
name of the company and they did. So I
34:00
called the title company and I knew that there
34:03
would be one of those daughters who would have had
34:06
been the exact cutrics of the of
34:08
the estate and the next thing I
34:11
know there's four cousins
34:13
Wanting to see him They
34:16
didn't know he was in prison and it
34:18
was great. Wow great fun So I'm just bringing
34:21
him together so they had closure they knew what
34:23
what happened to him and why he was here
34:26
In my 27 years. I've had maybe
34:28
only two maybe three of
34:30
the family members who said I don't want anything to do
34:33
with them One
34:35
even said that they
34:37
considered the patient less than plant life So
34:40
just let me know when they die But
34:43
all the other ones that we've
34:45
located they wanted to have some
34:48
kind of reconciliation some kind of
34:50
closure Another Part
34:55
of now's job is to help people decide
34:57
what kind of death they want to have
35:00
and as much as possible I guess help
35:02
them face their end with some kind of
35:04
acceptance and maybe even peace How
35:08
do you comfort people in this
35:10
moment where there's so much anxiety? I imagine
35:12
for a lot of people it's really an
35:14
anxious time in a fearful time So
35:18
how do you like sit with them and
35:20
touch them and talk to them with their
35:22
patients? Yeah, I usually talk to them about
35:24
hope And what
35:26
gives them hope? I Will
35:30
talk about things of faith We'll
35:32
talk about their hope to
35:35
reconcile with their family members To
35:38
make amends with those that they've injured
35:41
Can you hold their hand or oh, yeah, you
35:43
can I'll give them a hug go hold their
35:45
hand you be there for them Is
35:48
that different another read to them? Well write
35:50
to them and then our pastoral
35:52
care inmate workers They're
35:55
the heroes. They're the ones that are there making
35:58
sure that no one dies alone Some
36:02
of our Buddhists, there have been
36:04
two that wanted to die alone. They wanted
36:06
to be mindful of their
36:08
last breath. They
36:10
wanted to have their head propped up so
36:13
they can project their essence into a
36:16
higher plane and then be
36:18
reincarnated on a higher level. They
36:22
didn't want to have any kind of distractions and
36:25
they didn't want a lot of pain
36:27
meds. They wanted some to
36:30
take the edge off but they wanted to
36:32
be alert and they
36:34
wanted to die with a
36:37
clarity of knowing
36:40
this life to the next.
36:44
North told us about one patient in particular,
36:47
a Buddhist man who was preparing to die
36:49
in hospice. We were
36:51
in the wings in case he wanted something but
36:55
he wanted definitely to be alone,
36:57
to be mindful. We
37:01
were not there right
37:03
at the moment of his death because he wanted to
37:05
be alert and he wanted to
37:07
be alone but we were hovering. So
37:09
we kind of walked by and looked in, hovered
37:12
around, you know, and neat thing without
37:15
bothering him too much. And
37:18
the nursing staff, of course, their job
37:20
is to check on him but
37:22
he didn't want anything else. He
37:24
didn't want somebody holding his hand. He just
37:26
wanted to be left alone. If
37:31
you're sitting with someone who's dying, in
37:33
the process of dying, what's in your
37:35
opinion, what is the best thing? What
37:38
advice would you give me to be present
37:40
for somebody? Don't
37:42
talk so much. Listen
37:45
more. Listen for their heartbeat. Have
37:47
your breathing coincide with
37:50
their breathing. Just kind of tune
37:52
into them and
37:55
just listen. And then
37:57
if words come, let the words come.
38:00
but mostly let them speak. Sometimes
38:06
they speak with their eyes, sometimes they're too
38:08
weak to speak, and they can blink, you
38:10
know, one
38:12
blink for yes, two blinks for no, that kind of thing.
38:15
Sometimes they can squeeze a hand a little bit,
38:18
you know, you just let them know that you're there. For
38:22
a lot of the guys, they know
38:24
that God forgives them, but they
38:26
have a hard time forgiving themselves when they think
38:28
about what they've done. I
38:32
want to be compassionate, and
38:34
I understand that people can't live a life
38:36
completely in shame, but there's
38:39
some times where I feel like it's
38:41
right, you shouldn't
38:44
really struggle with what you did and how
38:46
deeply you affected so many lives. So
38:48
how do we come to terms with that, as
38:50
like a caring person whose
38:52
heart is open to not
38:55
wanting people to suffer? I
38:57
see my job as to help them open
38:59
up to those things and
39:02
to take ownership of those things, but
39:05
they may not be ready for that. We
39:09
had a patient back here who slaughtered his
39:12
wife in front of five daughters. He
39:14
had a real bad anger management
39:16
issue and his own problems, and
39:18
he just totally lost it one
39:21
evening at the table, slaughtered
39:23
his wife with a knife. His daughters
39:25
saw this, and they were little.
39:30
Even in this situation, Knopf felt
39:32
like maybe there was some good that could happen
39:34
here. So he went in search of the
39:36
daughters to ask if they wanted to
39:39
see their dad again. So
39:42
I was able to find those daughters through
39:45
the Eastern Orthodox Church,
39:47
and they wanted to come
39:50
and visit, and they wanted to ask them questions. Why
39:52
did you do this, Dad? What was this
39:55
all about? Who prepared
39:57
those women for the experience?
40:00
I talked to him before they came in. I mentioned
40:04
to him that they'll be remembering
40:06
things from the vantage point of a little
40:08
child. And I said,
40:11
now he's this sucked up old guy. And
40:15
he's weak, physically. And he
40:17
doesn't have power over them,
40:20
but he wants to see them too. And
40:23
they saw that as a kindness. We
40:26
prepared him for the meeting as well. In his
40:30
culture, the
40:33
husband, the father is the one in charge.
40:36
And I said, you lost that when you
40:38
killed your wife, especially in
40:40
front of these daughters. And they're going to
40:42
remember you as this monster. You
40:45
don't have that control anymore. You
40:47
don't have that authority. They're in
40:50
control. They can walk out at
40:53
any time. They're calling the shots. And so
40:55
we had the meeting. And
40:58
he wanted to take control a couple
41:00
times. And they can't do that. They're
41:02
in charge. Did you
41:04
step in? Yeah, I stepped in. And
41:08
so that made them feel, you know,
41:11
empowered. They
41:13
made it through really good. They showed him
41:16
pictures of his grandchildren. And
41:18
they showed pictures of their graduation
41:20
from college. And he
41:23
had missed all these things because
41:26
of what he did. And he was
41:28
able to express sorrow,
41:31
you know, for his crime and what
41:33
he did. But
41:36
there was one time when one of them asked
41:39
him, well, why did you do
41:41
this? And then he started to
41:43
complain about his wife. And then they shut
41:46
him down. You
41:48
don't complain about mom. That still
41:50
was in him. He couldn't reach that
41:52
point of
41:54
taking ownership over his own
41:57
actions. So when you told me that
41:59
my interior... started to boil
42:01
a little bit and get angry. What
42:03
happened inside of you when you
42:05
oh yeah it boiled yeah okay who
42:09
do you think that experience benefited the
42:11
most I think it
42:13
benefited the daughters because
42:16
they were able to confront him they were able
42:18
to see him they had
42:20
closure they saw that he was no longer this
42:23
monster that he was a confused
42:26
old man who was who
42:28
had hadn't really grown a
42:31
whole lot from when he was their
42:35
dad years and
42:37
years ago. How
42:39
did it end did they touch or
42:42
exchange? Yeah they shook
42:44
hands he wanted to hug them but they
42:46
weren't ready for that so
42:48
they they shook hands on the way out yeah so
42:50
there was at least some kind of touch. Any
42:55
I love you's or? No
42:57
I love you's yeah but there was closure.
43:03
They did say that they forgave him
43:07
forgiveness isn't agreeing with the crime
43:10
or the hurt it's putting
43:12
it away if you
43:14
look at the word and in an old
43:17
dictionary you see it's a collision
43:19
of two English words the for
43:21
and then evenness and for is what
43:23
you need to hit the golf ball
43:25
and you send it away yeah and
43:28
the idea of evenness so
43:30
for evenness you
43:33
send that infraction
43:35
you send that crime
43:37
you send that ouchiness of
43:41
your heart away. I
43:44
feel that we don't really understand what
43:47
the word forgiveness means and it gets
43:49
used way too lightly and
43:51
so I really appreciate hearing how you talk
43:53
about it. It's not just oh
43:56
I forgive you and it doesn't necessarily
43:58
mean a happy ending. either.
44:00
It's not always about coming
44:02
back together and hugging. It's
44:04
about understanding something and moving
44:07
on. But it's really complicated and even
44:09
if that's not an easy thing. It
44:11
wasn't for these five brave daughters. It
44:14
wasn't an easy thing for them. But
44:16
they wanted to do that. So
44:23
hospice is a place of healing.
44:25
Not just a place of dying.
44:33
If I asked you what you did for
44:35
a living and you couldn't say chaplain, what
44:38
are like three words you would use to describe what you
44:41
do, what your job is? Spiritual
44:43
midwife, helping a person be
44:48
birthed from this life to the next. Spiritual
44:52
birth. Nice. That's
44:55
a pretty good ending. Thank you. Good
45:09
to see you. Do you
45:11
remember when we were trying to remember how long
45:13
ago it was? About three and a half weeks.
45:16
Okay. A
45:19
few weeks later, we went back to CMF's
45:22
hospice for a second visit. We
45:24
saw Michael Powell, the guy with the
45:26
brain tumor who we had met in the garden. Good
45:29
afternoon. How are you doing today?
45:31
I'm good. Let's get the mic on you. Oh,
45:39
man. He's seen better. Amazing.
45:42
He was hanging out with a
45:44
service dog who is assigned to
45:46
the hospice, a golden retriever named
45:48
Angelica. She's my little buddy. Can
45:50
you describe who Angelica is? Angelica is
45:53
a service dog that's been here a
45:55
while and she's a very loving dog
45:57
that enjoys coming
45:59
in here. and hanging out with us. What does it mean
46:01
when she licks you? That's just
46:03
the emotional feeling, like she's trying to get to
46:05
know somebody. Oh, okay, so it's a good sign.
46:07
Yes, it is. There
46:10
were two things I wanted to ask you, but last time when
46:12
we met, you
46:14
cried quite a bit. Yeah,
46:16
you taught me on a bad day. We
46:19
were strangers. I felt awkward and
46:21
it's so hard in prison because you can't comfort,
46:23
I mean, I'm not allowed to comfort anybody. I
46:25
couldn't reach out. I felt so
46:27
terrible about it, but I didn't quite know
46:30
why you were crying. I wasn't sure if
46:32
it was emotional or physiological. So
46:35
I was glad we got to talk again. Well,
46:38
I think emotionally I've changed a
46:41
little bit. It was a large tumor.
46:44
I have noticed that some
46:46
of my thinking has changed
46:50
a little bit. So I imagine
46:52
that had something to do with my emotional state at
46:54
the time. Were you irritated that
46:56
these strangers were talking when you were
46:58
crying? No, no. That's
47:01
not my personality. It's
47:05
just a weird situation. I'm
47:07
a control person. I like being in control
47:10
and I'm not in control of anything right now. I
47:15
know it's only been three and a half weeks since
47:17
we saw you, but you actually seem stronger than when
47:19
I was crying. Oh yeah, I walk every day. I
47:21
go do squats. I walk. I hang out with her
47:23
every day. We walk. Your
47:25
voice sounds stronger too. I
47:28
feel good, really. Other than not
47:31
knowing about the two, because the tumor can come back
47:34
anytime and I'm not gonna know. You
47:36
know, I'm not gonna know. Michael
47:39
was still waiting to see whether his application
47:42
for compassionate release had been granted. Again,
47:44
that's the California law that lets some people
47:46
get out of prison when a
47:48
doctor says they're at the end. And
47:51
now that Michael was feeling better, you
47:54
could sense this real urgency. Like this
47:56
was his window to live, reconnect
47:58
with his family. And he didn't
48:00
know how long that window would stay open. So
48:04
if I asked you to look to the like three months
48:06
from now, where do you think
48:08
you're going to be in three months? Hopefully
48:11
in Crescent City. I'm hoping
48:13
my health improves. Oh,
48:15
my sister said she'll come spend the weekends with me.
48:18
So what do you imagine you would do together?
48:21
Go shopping. I haven't been to a
48:24
grocery store in 20 years. I
48:26
haven't had a hamburger in 20 years. A
48:28
real hamburger in 20 years. Yeah. Well,
48:31
it's great to see you again. I honestly look so
48:34
much better than you did three and a
48:36
half weeks ago. Thank you for coming back. Erlan,
48:45
the thing that I remember about leaving that day
48:47
that was really striking was like
48:49
the contrast between the quiet
48:52
sacred space of death
48:54
and dying that actually felt
48:56
comforting in some ways and then contrasting
48:58
that with the loud kind of chaotic
49:00
scene in that long ass hallway of
49:03
the regular prison. Can
49:06
I get your visitor pass too? You
49:11
and your dad coke, you
49:13
know me well, and I know you wanted to get
49:15
back to your phone. No, my
49:17
son. I received. Okay. Well,
49:20
after spending a day in there as
49:22
beautiful as it was, it
49:24
did actually feel good to get back to
49:26
the routine of, you know, just like regular
49:28
life stuff. Indeed it do. Thank
49:41
you for calling Crescent City's come. I see
49:43
Ms. Alina. How may I help you? We're
49:45
hoping to reach Michael Powell. Yeah,
49:47
give me a sec. Thank you. Hello.
49:51
Hello, Michael. Is this Michael?
49:54
Michael. Michael Freeman. No,
49:57
it's Michael Freeman. Yes
50:01
it is. Hi Michael Freeman. A
50:03
few months later, we got on the
50:05
phone with Michael Powell. The compassionate release
50:08
came through. He'd been released from prison to
50:10
go live in a nursing home up in
50:12
Crescent City, right by the Oregon border.
50:14
And that was this cool story he told
50:17
us about when he was being transferred from
50:19
prison to the nursing home in an ambulance.
50:21
It turned out the ambulance drivers had
50:23
also done time in prison. So they
50:25
were like, hey, let's show this guy
50:27
some sights. We
50:30
stopped somewhere, the world's
50:32
biggest tree. And they let me
50:34
out of the van to step out of the van. And
50:37
that was my first step for
50:39
freedom. Not handcuffed,
50:41
not chained, not in
50:43
orange. And that meant a lot. We
50:46
were in the parking lot, in the trees.
50:50
Just beautiful. It
50:53
was fresh air, beautiful
50:55
trees, big old redwood trees. Yeah. I
50:57
don't know if it was the excitement
51:00
of, I'm free now. You
51:02
know cops drove by, I don't care. I
51:05
didn't do nothing. I don't
51:07
know if it was the
51:09
freedom or it was the air,
51:12
the beauty of it. And then
51:14
we stopped to look at the ocean. I'm
51:17
so glad you saw that. I think that's a
51:19
really special part of California. It feels like
51:21
a place that's very alive. It
51:24
feels new. Yeah. It feels
51:26
like it's, you're right. It feels like it's
51:28
new, like it's untouched. Like it's not, I
51:30
don't want to say a virgin, but a
51:33
virgin. But there's something like that. But I want to feel like
51:35
it's not corrupted. Yeah. You
51:37
know what I mean? Yeah, no, absolutely.
51:39
It was beautiful. We'll see what happens.
51:42
You know? A
51:59
couple months after we... spoke to him and
52:01
about a week before this episode came out
52:03
Michael Powell died in
52:05
the nursing home where we last spoke to him. He
52:08
died a free man. Yes he did.
52:11
Mario Rivas, the guy with the
52:13
hat and Mr. Roberts who sang
52:16
Hank Williams also died at the
52:18
CMF hospice. I'm glad
52:20
we got to spend some time with them. Indeed.
52:30
Yeah. Had
52:43
it flew in the prison and flew me.
52:46
My last day looked up and
52:48
saw a man
52:51
wheeled around the corner down
52:53
the skin and bones that's
52:56
all. I
52:58
asked the nurse where he was going. She said a
53:02
hospice down the hall.
53:05
He probably won't be in there long.
53:10
Any day we'll get the
53:12
call. That's
53:17
a bit of Bonnie Wright's song down the
53:19
hall. She wrote this song after reading about
53:22
the hospice program at the California Medical Facility
53:24
in the New York Times. That's
53:26
pretty cool. It is. Hey
53:32
everyone my name is Michelle DeThomas and right now
53:34
I'm having a little moment of gratitude that you
53:36
all took the time to visit our hospice and
53:39
share these important stories. Your
53:41
Hustle is produced by Nigel Poore, Erlon
53:43
Woods, Amy Standon, Bruce Wallace and Rassan
53:46
New York Thomas. Shabnam
53:49
Sigmund is the managing producer. The
53:51
producing team inside San Quentin includes
53:53
Doral Sadiq Davis, Tony De Trinidad
53:56
and Tom Nguyen. The inside managing
53:58
producer is Tony DeFolte. Thanks
54:02
to Acting Warden Cueva at the California
54:04
Medical Facility for welcoming the Ear Hustle
54:06
team and supporting the hospice mission
54:08
to provide dignity at the end of life
54:10
for our patients and their families. Thanks
54:13
also to this amazing woman here. My
54:16
name is Lieutenant Priscilla Gonzalez. I'm
54:18
the administrative assistant and public information
54:21
officer for the California Medical Facility
54:23
and I approve this episode. Big
54:27
thanks to Acting Warden Andis and Lieutenant Barry
54:30
at St. Quentin and Acting Warden Williams,
54:32
Associate Warden Lewis and Lieutenant Newborn at
54:34
the California Institution for Women for their
54:36
ongoing support of the show. This
54:40
episode was made possible by The
54:42
Just Trust, working to amplify the
54:44
voices, vision and power of communities
54:46
that are transforming the justice system.
54:49
For more information about this episode, check out
54:51
the show notes on Ear Hustle's website,
54:54
earhustlesque.com. You can
54:56
also find out more about the show
54:59
on Instagram, Facebook and YouTube at EarHustleSQ.
55:04
Erlon Woods, Sound Design and
55:06
Engineers the Show with help from
55:09
Fernando Arruda and Harry Colhane.
55:12
This episode features music from
55:14
Rashid Zinneman, Fernando Arruda, Antoine
55:16
Williams and me, Erlon Woods.
55:19
Want more Ear Hustle? Subscribe to Ear
55:21
Hustle Plus. We've
55:24
got bonus episodes and live chats so
55:26
we get to chop it up with
55:28
the listeners about the show. And
55:31
Erlon, that is always a blast. Always.
55:34
Subscribe at earhustlesq.com or
55:36
in the Apple Podcast
55:39
app. And don't forget to sign
55:41
up for our newsletter, The Low Down. In
55:43
this issue, I'm going to be talking about
55:45
a little photo project I'm doing on the
55:47
side. There's actually a connection to
55:50
this episode, but you're going to have to read
55:52
it to find out. You got
55:54
a sign. I'm stepping out
55:56
on you, Erlon. Weeee.
55:58
Subscribe at earhustlesq.com. earhustlesq.com newsletter
56:00
and while you're at it
56:03
leave us a review on
56:05
Apple Podcasts. That's a big
56:07
help to the show and we appreciate you for
56:09
it. Earhustle is
56:11
a proud member of Radiotopia
56:14
from PRX, a network of
56:16
independent, creator-owned, listener-supported podcasts.
56:19
Discover audio with vision at
56:22
Radiotopia.fm. I'm
56:24
Nigel Poore. I'm Erlon Woods.
56:26
Thanks for listening. Here's
56:42
your Jasmine. Your Jasmine right here. And
56:46
that has a little smile too. This
56:48
is your Philadelphia's Louisie right
56:50
here. And that has like
56:52
a four-leaf clover when it does flower and
56:54
flower earlier and it's a white. Nigel,
57:02
earhustle listeners are the
57:04
best. They really are. You're always
57:06
in touch letting us know what you think
57:09
about episodes and sharing the love. Yep.
57:11
It's really a two-way conversation, a
57:14
relationship. Indeed it is. And if
57:16
you're looking for a way to deepen that
57:18
relationship, consider signing up for Earhustle Plus.
57:21
Earhustle Plus. It's a new
57:23
subscription service that delivers bonus Earhustle
57:25
episodes wherever you get your podcasts.
57:27
In addition to ad-free episodes of
57:30
Earhustle, subscribers get behind the scenes
57:32
off the cuff conversations. We
57:34
have a monthly AMA, which is
57:37
Ask Me Anything episode where you
57:39
and I answer questions sent in
57:41
by subscribers. And seriously, no
57:43
question is too random or
57:46
wacky. Questions like, what's our favorite
57:48
book? Do we hang
57:50
out in between seasons? What's the
57:52
most technically challenging Earhustle episode ever?
57:55
Okay, Erlon, yeah, those are good questions, but
57:57
like we said above, I'd like some back
57:59
earlones. We've
58:01
also started doing episode commentary where you
58:03
and I listen to a classic ear
58:06
hustle episode and talk about how it
58:08
came together, hard decisions made along the
58:10
way and where the people in the
58:12
episodes are now. Yeah, we did that
58:14
for Silly and it was a lot of fun so
58:16
we're definitely going to do more. And Erlon, tell them
58:18
about that idea you're working on. Sure. I've
58:21
been sitting down with some of our formerly
58:23
incarcerated friends who have gotten out and are
58:25
doing well. Just basically showing how
58:27
they went from one situation to a better
58:29
situation if that makes sense. Those would start
58:32
dropping in the Ear Hustle Plus feed tool.
58:34
Listeners, we want you in this conversation.
58:37
Find out more about Ear
58:39
Hustle Plus at earhustlesq.com/plus or
58:42
subscribe right now in the
58:44
Apple Podcast Player app.
58:46
That's earhustlesq.com/plus or right
58:48
in the Apple Podcast
58:51
Player. So what is
58:53
your favorite book, Erlon? Sorry, Nudge. You
58:55
gotta subscribe for that. Really? Yes.
58:58
Radio, tell me how.
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