0:17

He tells. Sir,

0:19

you're putting the buyers. He

0:21

got one package. Danger. I'm

0:28

looking literally I still get access to that.

0:30

the podcast back and Sexy Little Be probably

0:32

one of the last things that they get

0:34

rid of for some reason only. Person here

0:36

last email access the first ten minutes because

0:39

he sent them an email about hubristic since

0:41

Dec doesn't work. On something. They

0:43

why the war with this. The

0:46

I sort of them a very rude email

0:48

and I post a on twitter that is

0:50

minimal had my dick doesn't work energy and

0:52

on my email got turned on a a

0:54

bit but not. Lose

0:56

a week. Of pay over that

0:58

without having been notified. I'm going to have

1:00

my lawyer. Write.

1:03

A very nasty email and recover but money.

1:06

So I think I said something of rude

1:08

but I think I also said something true

1:10

and I'm living. Did

1:13

we see the biggest see? Parker.

1:16

Malloy ran ran his letter

1:19

through one of the Ai

1:21

detection services energy. I'm back

1:23

Combat! Yeah. Religious?

1:26

Yeah, I mean the they're not

1:29

like those ai detection services are

1:31

not great. They're

1:33

not perfect, but that would be very

1:35

funny if he used chair Gp T

1:37

to write his. To. Write

1:39

that email and it you know, like

1:41

reading it. it. it wasn't exactly. It's.

1:44

Not Shakespeare? No such. Shakespeare,

1:46

right? Beautiful. Do

1:50

we want to go run the go around the

1:52

table and introduce ourselves real quick? Yeah.

1:55

Mack Lamoureux. I was a senior

1:57

reporter on the Extremism Desk year.

2:00

The new since. October.

2:02

Twenty sixteen Started Advice Canada, Them,

2:04

vice.com and finally Vice News. So

2:06

I've been all over this fucking

2:08

website. On. Yeah.

2:11

Seven or eight years I've been here now. And

2:14

an Umbrella in A

2:17

was a senior staff

2:19

writer on the. Sicher

2:21

dass than that existed and that I

2:23

was a senior staff writer motherboard and

2:25

that I was to through generally have

2:28

a snooze all covering the same thing.

2:30

And and I've been here since

2:32

October. Twenty Leave him. Ah,

2:36

I was a features editor by

2:38

soon by damn of the same

2:40

thing, while being. Moved. Around

2:42

different buckets and I started in

2:44

summer. Two thousand ninety. That's

2:47

an amazing questioned Ah. So as

2:50

sensibly I was hired to be

2:52

a Cedar Social Media editor and

2:54

mother board or advice generally and

2:56

I think I was moved over

2:58

to mother board or working with

3:01

mother. I don't really remember how

3:03

that all started. Eventually they promoted

3:05

need to the manager position without

3:07

giving any Baden manage Ah met

3:09

and then they told me that

3:12

I shouldn't be doing social anymore

3:14

so I would just be a

3:16

regular editor. but that. Never.

3:19

Panned: Out except for job responsibilities.

3:21

So just say I'm an editor Advice

3:23

just to make it easy. Was

3:26

was. The

3:28

mean, I guess. Currently we still

3:30

are. Just a moment that we're

3:33

in for this, We are technically still

3:35

employed. It is Friday at Eleven am

3:37

and currently I think they're all still

3:39

employed. You. Suggested to suffer

3:41

seen here o Max. We were going to

3:44

have Mack on to talk about incredible story

3:46

that he had written. Of

3:48

Spurs Woodruff Whoa! I would say

3:51

wonderful. This will reported on important

3:53

feature. He'd written and then

3:55

we all. You know, Woke.

3:58

Up. A real. Is the

4:00

google take out didn't work and and rumors of come

4:02

down at the site was getting deleted. We

4:05

don't have access to the content management system in

4:07

the back end. Ah, But

4:09

I still have access to upload

4:11

a podcast. So we're doing a

4:13

road podcast going out the door,

4:15

sit in bits and reminisce about

4:17

our time. Advice, On.

4:20

A to say good bye to cyber into the site

4:22

and to each other. Ah,

4:24

I'm. So. Yeah, that is. That is

4:26

what we're here to do and to to kind of.

4:28

I think. Really? Explain what

4:30

happened here because. It's.

4:33

Not as if we didn't know that this was

4:35

going to happen. Which. I didn't

4:37

know the exact timeline or the

4:39

shape, right? Yeah, We've. Been

4:41

living under the cloud. Sounds like

4:43

a great bloodletting four years now.

4:46

Yeah, it wasn't a question is is it

4:48

was a question of one. Still,

4:50

Sox. Just. Awful. I

4:53

think to the reason why everybody

4:55

immediately chance. Yesterday when we started. Getting

4:58

these tips, these rumors started going

5:00

around about. The same been deleted as

5:02

that as it's to me it really

5:04

anything with possible make that they've deleted

5:06

to declare. Would be like nonsensical or

5:08

magnus and from a business perspective it

5:10

would make no sense from a legal

5:13

perspective like some of us have, litigation

5:15

holds on. Things. Related

5:17

to stories that we did are taking

5:19

down the site would be a violation

5:21

of litigation hold it would be really

5:24

crazy but I'm the decisions that have

5:26

been made. Out. Of management level

5:28

have been so baffling that we relate.

5:31

We don't know. What?

5:33

They'll do. When was the last

5:35

time anyone talked to anybody in the see sweet?

5:37

It's been like six months, right? Vagina.

5:40

Kind of communication as far as I

5:42

know. Like, even with Josh, I'm. From.

5:45

What I've heard through the grapevine.

5:47

Joss Wizards the yeah I see

5:49

of our vice news. He was

5:51

frozen out of conversations in regards

5:53

to budget com and last few

5:55

months. So you're like our heads

5:57

management have been frozen out of

5:59

talking to them. fucking babies in

6:01

charge. I knew something was wrong when

6:03

Korea hicks. Stop sending us

6:05

a content snack is

6:07

Caucasus. Gray as an executive

6:09

who is honestly I don't even know at her job

6:11

Dell as a more do you guys girl boss. Success.

6:15

And. Sees to send these little

6:17

emails. Every Friday that were titled Content

6:19

Snack and it was. you know, clips

6:22

from I guess the parts of the

6:24

company. That see. Considered.

6:27

Useful. Or worthwhile is usually something

6:29

on the Tv side at never really

6:31

reflected anything on the rating side. And

6:33

they were in these very like cute

6:35

little. Upbeat tones. I believe we

6:38

got one. We got a content

6:40

snack like right after round of

6:42

layoffs. we don't just one one

6:44

time arm advice Canada lay offs

6:46

ah to spot with These have

6:49

been happening since Twenty seventeen would

6:51

dearly for arm. We walked into

6:53

the office in Toronto and V

6:55

had just bought not like. I.

6:58

Can only say like two hundred and fifty dollar

7:01

Two hundred and fifty dollar Mcdonald breakfast sandwiches and

7:03

just lay them out on the desk in front

7:05

of everybody. It's and will exist. Mel was horrific

7:07

and or was like what the fuck is going

7:09

on here and images of laid off a bunch

7:11

of people there like but. Guys.

7:14

Want an Egg Mcmuffin? And.

7:19

And. Indeed, an egg mcmuffin this time with sauce

7:21

or that would require of their to be

7:23

like them off at well I guess the

7:25

reason office to go to New York City

7:27

right here. but not in Canada anymore, right?

7:29

There's no Toronto office? No, no, they resorted

7:31

to i think tic toc Canada in our.

7:35

During the pandemics that office was blocked is

7:37

like a ghost in in I like not

7:40

like reopen. I mean like used to host

7:42

like three hundred people in there and then

7:44

by the time we last there was like

7:46

seventeen of us in this giant empty warehouse

7:48

and it just don't fucking haunted and. I.

7:51

Was pretty happy. Only got rid of it. So.

7:53

My beliefs about. That New York office

7:55

is that it was like literally cursed,

7:58

not haunted that purse And. It

8:00

is Everybody knows of a New York office used

8:02

to the the home of a venue. And.

8:06

And you know which was very

8:08

unceremoniously like subbed out to way

8:10

for face. It was glass lands

8:12

right? I'm sorry it's early her my brain is not

8:15

working it. Was it to eighty Five can.

8:17

Just as a great Jeff Rosenstock song about voice

8:19

coming out with enjoy things can wave Good Night

8:21

to me. Neither bigamy. Yeah,

8:23

that sounds great, but so people

8:25

were always and. Injuring.

8:28

Themselves in the office lists. And I don't mean

8:30

to make light of this that this this did

8:32

happen. sorry it was both death by. Audio and

8:34

got plans for it. Was a marker

8:36

so as a story out a series,

8:38

a storied history and so on. People

8:40

are falling down the theres they're a

8:42

lot of like injuries. There were weird

8:44

and explicable cold spots. I mean maybe

8:46

people were find. Answers to they were going up

8:49

and down these incredibly stupid or it's like

8:51

with laptops and phones and like being you

8:53

know, demonstrating the lack of this awareness that

8:55

journalists don't really have. Felt like I will

8:57

say like when you were in their you're just

8:59

oh this is not. A good place. This

9:02

is not a place like touched by the

9:04

light of the look for us is not

9:06

a place of honor. I also want to

9:08

point out that he. Didn't.

9:11

In had I'm massive.

9:14

Dead spots were both cell

9:16

reception. Meaning

9:18

that you couldn't use. The.

9:21

Internet in basic. Would you hire

9:23

Basement would hurt their business Tv

9:25

production facility that's really Vice News

9:27

Tonight was put together. the editing

9:30

bay service. Dot. Com. And

9:32

so. You. You

9:34

you couldn't work in most recent

9:37

unless you work. Hard. For

9:39

them. On the

9:41

internet which was always really fun

9:43

and then the entire rest of

9:45

the authors. Didn't. Really

9:47

have places read take phone calls.

9:50

And. Large parts of the

9:52

office had bad music

9:54

playing over loudspeakers. Serve.

9:56

A purpose that was? Yeah,

9:58

not really possible. The parts of

10:00

your job in the in the office which

10:03

is just one of those kind of telling

10:05

things I guess along with births famous mystery

10:07

of. Why? There's so much milk.

10:09

The milk. Why? The

10:11

milk. I'm unhappy day to go

10:13

both into the of life I

10:16

thing and the milk. I

10:19

would have to like make tic tacs which

10:21

I would have to find an abandoned bring

10:23

somewhere in which to make the tick tock

10:25

and always have a little droning noise in

10:27

the background of the audio because dated. I

10:30

don't know if is known artists to see

10:32

it being a T V and etc studio

10:34

for making any sort of contact. For any

10:36

where he would have to walk up the stairs, Two flights

10:39

of stairs. And out to a ports and hold

10:41

up your son and like it was two

10:43

thousand and seven up to the skies to get

10:45

enough reception to be able to upload it

10:47

to talk. And it would take like twenty minutes

10:49

out of my work day in which you

10:51

can't close out of a tick tock at Andrews.

10:54

watching tic tacs go by as the percentages

10:56

is creeping up to upload. The

10:58

the military interesting. So when they

11:00

reopen the office. On the

11:02

after you know lock down when there

11:05

is a hopeless to return to office.

11:07

We found a lot of milk. In

11:10

the fridge as at the office has

11:12

gotten rid of every other south in

11:14

a we have to have like chips

11:17

and cereal and whatever but now it's

11:19

just like curtains and curtains and curtains

11:21

as milk both very melt and non

11:24

dairy milk. ah. It.

11:26

Was. It. Was fascinating.

11:28

Nobody knew where it came from or

11:30

why it was. There were why we

11:33

had milk. Instead. Of you know

11:35

equipment or anything that was actually I'm

11:37

sort of like a are very case

11:39

you would see and like a reasonably

11:41

sized grocery store and buy things out

11:44

because she was there were. Bored.

11:47

Or to note would this be

11:49

was like restarts like when they

11:51

continuously has amount of milk. the.

11:53

So. That I personally and I wasn't in the office

11:55

on this, but I never. Saw anyone restocking it, which

11:58

was the other sort of creepy thing. It. Again

12:00

to go to my point. cursed pointed.

12:02

Whatever. Lake. I never saw anyone

12:05

restocking it, but there is always milk. There's.

12:07

Also like a metaphor here: A because there

12:09

is a snack barometer for media companies. You

12:11

always knew a media company is in trouble.

12:13

The snacks are dwindling. They get worse. They

12:16

go from being like name brand whatever to

12:18

Kirkland whatever. That eventually there are no

12:20

snacks. But in the case of a is. Always.

12:23

A baffling plays it wasn't there were no

12:25

snacks is is there was one thing that

12:27

no one wanted that we kept pointing out

12:29

that we kept saying like. Discuss

12:32

the cost, Would. Wasn't it

12:34

was different kinds of milk. Subaru Impreza

12:36

nose positions the goat milk the had

12:38

the soy milk be heard. You know

12:40

who's very strange has had a milk

12:42

bar? Yes we. How he literally did. I

12:45

always thought about lakeside. take some home. You

12:47

know, when I would be a New York

12:49

and Felix? they just take some for. You.

12:51

Know wherever I'm staying that that it's like you

12:54

know the provenance of the snow's animal. Unless

12:56

it was opened at that point. Which many of

12:59

them were not to be a listen note.

13:02

When it owed but I don't think they had that, I don't

13:04

know it was it had odors. seems to they have only had

13:06

a hook for sure if they had of it's. Some of

13:08

the things you as lake. I. Don't

13:10

know that you guys that in my early days

13:12

of working in media like when I was thirsty

13:14

gawker media like those snacks were quite literally like

13:16

a large portion of my diet. You.

13:18

Know. Opponent like the

13:20

comedian office never had snacks. We.

13:23

We would sometimes did Apple's ah and

13:25

we had a coffee machines. But like

13:28

as I said earlier, if snacks around

13:30

for now was a harbinger of bad

13:32

times ahead we would have a town

13:34

hall and they would announce that one

13:36

of our editors been going to jail

13:39

because he was smuggling coax to asterisk

13:41

still hot one hundred whenever we saw

13:43

snacks, he was bad news. But.

13:45

You guys didn't need sense because you have a

13:47

social safety net. As. A country of

13:50

what we do, we do have health

13:52

insurance. Really

13:54

stream like told digital media sorry in

13:56

New York through snacks are numbered The

13:58

first time I went. You The

14:00

Daily Beast offices. My friend is

14:03

working there and it looks like

14:05

the ball been section of hold.

14:07

It was another massive commercial operations

14:09

and it was all filled with

14:11

like. Ah, super sugar.

14:13

He said cereals and like.

14:16

All. The recent peanut butter cups and M and

14:18

M's like only got really good. Snack.

14:21

Bar and I was a little bit. I

14:23

little bit freaked out because it was

14:25

immediately obvious to me that the with

14:28

a purpose. Was. To keep

14:30

underpaid. Ah, Twenty.

14:32

Three year olds, Hits sitting

14:35

at their to sitting at

14:37

their laptops. Humping

14:40

themselves full of sugar. pathetic

14:42

off eat meat on and

14:44

it was. It. Was a

14:46

little bit disturbing and I remember something pretty similar

14:48

in. One. Of the buses

14:51

officers when a disease on, yeah,

14:53

it's definitely it's And then it

14:55

seems because over the years as

14:58

unionization payments and the underpaid twenty

15:00

three year old became unionized twenty

15:02

eight year olds and alves on

15:05

it seems. Anecdotally. I

15:07

couldn't qualify this, but it seems like

15:09

things tips from having all the like

15:11

cocoa puffs you can eat to. You.

15:14

Know prepackaged all means and

15:17

like. Boozy health food

15:19

on. Duty to to

15:21

keep the the more sophisticated it

15:23

is now Raiders seen that their

15:25

laptops and that and not leaving

15:27

the office for any reason. Yeah

15:29

Special K became the serial of

15:31

choice I think. It's a

15:33

strange I remember the first time the

15:36

first time ever encountered this was in

15:38

San Francisco actually at the medium offices.

15:42

And I'd come from. I. Come

15:44

from the retail world. Is kind

15:46

of or worked my way into

15:49

to digital media Are in Aid

15:51

Was a very strange office is

15:53

it was only a quarter filled

15:55

by. much like the vice offices.

15:57

Often very open, lots of empty

15:59

desks, A beautiful looking twenty twenty

16:01

five year old coders dressed like Banana Republic

16:04

models and just too much money spent and

16:06

places that I didn't understand. Like.

16:08

Instead of a whiteboard outside of an office where

16:10

you could write with i'm in a meeting or

16:12

this me of section is blocked off the smell

16:14

of time it was an I pad at every

16:16

door. Sick. Why would you spend that

16:19

money to have an I pad at every single

16:21

door? Just just see, you

16:23

could say that you're at a meeting in

16:25

their very wild. Super incredible amount of money.

16:27

Obviously Medium hasn't done. If

16:30

anyone even remembers that public case

16:32

that. Is not fared well

16:34

of. Yeah. It's really into

16:36

saying. I had one other funny

16:38

it's ice memory that I didn't even remember

16:40

until just now. That's so funny I completely

16:42

or persists said before actually came to work

16:44

at Basic two years prior. they reached out to

16:46

me for like a print like. Our on

16:48

camera roll like whatever you call that.

16:51

the our our beloved colleagues who tell

16:53

you know think right talent who stand

16:55

in the field getting blown about by

16:57

wind talking about. Syria or

16:59

whatever. and. And I sat down

17:02

with this eight or person know the are city

17:04

has no idea. Who I? I'm like. There's no

17:06

reason why I was called for this job. like

17:08

they just ida. I don't even know. This might

17:10

have been literally just like a spammer. Okay, I'm

17:12

cool. I'm not going. To. Work here and then they

17:14

were like what we need you to do a camera

17:17

test and I was like let answer with a camera

17:19

test ended up being with making me go up. Three.

17:21

Floors to where. I. Would eventually

17:24

set when I started working if I

17:26

were. all. these journalists are sitting at

17:28

their computers. Trying. To work

17:30

and making me deliver. Like

17:33

on camera. Lions basically

17:35

and like walk back and forth. So I'm

17:37

doing this in front of a room of

17:39

like. I. Don't know. Two

17:42

hundred people trying to work is is

17:44

dead silent mirror and it's just me

17:46

talking and pacing back and forth. I

17:48

wanted to fucking die. I. Had

17:50

to do those to recall them, discuss

17:53

and. Their the fucking worst and

17:55

they're just like seed You lines and then

17:57

you'd have to see him back. Meanwhile, lights.

18:00

Nice guy Krishna. Where is my desk mate?

18:02

Would want to fucking slit my throat. The.

18:06

Center at yes, instant death. it's

18:09

will. always. it always felt like.

18:13

The. New leader, the broadcast side

18:15

and the digital new side which

18:17

is not communicating whatsoever. There.

18:19

In the same space, like overlapping each other

18:21

and getting into each other's way. in just

18:23

not. there is the but it seems like

18:25

there was no. Communication.

18:29

Between the two sides is really odd

18:31

to me when also no communication within

18:33

the sides because in all leave Mr

18:35

Ali this and to describe but this

18:38

if I have to i i think

18:40

one or the other of us you

18:42

know mostly and of it sometimes me.

18:45

Where. Of probes like literally ten times

18:47

by producers from various parts advice

18:49

who are working on like basically

18:51

the same. Conspiracy. Products.

18:54

Since and none of whom. Appeared.

18:56

To have any familiarity. With.

18:59

Our work pass. Oh those are the

19:01

conspiracy guys. And. None

19:04

of whom appeared to be aware of the other ones.

19:06

It's kind of like this. Incredible.

19:09

Galapagos Island thing where she sits,

19:11

the seek out on our ideas

19:13

propagate. it's affiliates external influence and

19:15

somehow they all came up with

19:17

the exact same like not that

19:20

interesting isn't it that there was

19:22

always we are doing a p

19:24

is about what is a conspiracy

19:26

theory It was always the that

19:28

like that was their. Idea

19:31

and be like oh I think so and. So.

19:33

Is working on this to and then that would not.

19:36

Have an early. Plans.

19:39

For whatever reason, I also.

19:41

This. Is sort of funny answer of dark

19:43

there's somebody who. Is. A person

19:46

in the conspiracy world has kind of left

19:48

the conspiracy world. His pretty internists. Ah, he

19:50

doesn't really talk about his time. In the

19:52

conspiracy world anymore. For whatever reason he does

19:54

talk to me like will just d m

19:56

needs and so about every six weeks he

19:58

be like hey someone. Fan base.

20:01

Is. Trying to get me to talk to them. Can

20:03

you please please ask him to leave me alone Like

20:05

I wanna leave that part of my life behind? I'd

20:07

be like i'm sorry man Eight I literally don't know

20:09

who that is and then it would happen again. Like.

20:11

Six weeks later, So. This poor

20:13

man who literally wish. Lives

20:15

in the woods now. As subtract straight very

20:18

hard to get away from. I'm they

20:20

a community that he was affiliated with

20:22

than the time that he was affiliated

20:24

with it and it's been quite a

20:26

long time is as periodically getting hounded

20:28

by vice principal. Will.

20:30

Not be more. No, I

20:32

don't know. He's fine with friends. We

20:34

I used mainly for else and I'm a message

20:37

or national nightmare is over. You

20:40

know we're We're talking about it as a front of

20:42

been shut down but we don't actually know. We.

20:44

Don't actually know what was happening.

20:46

The memo that with sensor us

20:48

is now originated from salts and.

20:51

Did. So. Vague.

20:54

More their resume. There. Was an

20:56

email that was sent to like the

20:58

digital teams that none of us were

21:00

privy to either. Have you guys been

21:03

sent? That mean I had his said.

21:05

That detailed the are is basically

21:07

I don't know who the messages

21:09

from. To the

21:11

songs and buy digital. I don't mean

21:13

necessarily the culture side. I mean like

21:16

kind of. Or to Nine Point does

21:18

the weird. Social Sweden. Yeah,

21:20

oh no. not immune

21:23

cells. On really. On

21:25

how this was a new social still

21:28

know we were we obtained it. Oh

21:30

hell yeah bridge. On the six years

21:32

I would. I. Woke up to

21:34

a bunch of text messages I

21:37

will not take any physicists by

21:39

of yeah so basically it is

21:41

the the email not only includes

21:44

description of someone including a little

21:46

women reference in. He's pretty woman

21:48

to their i'm pretty women. Excuse me nights

21:50

I was hoping it was little and and

21:52

I don't know why. Maybe it would be

21:54

from the best from best as fast or

21:56

something that would be asked by. Yeah,

21:59

basics. The thing: vice is still

22:01

going to function which is very

22:03

funny to me. Let me actually

22:06

pull this episode. not just speaking.

22:08

You. I would like. I would love to see

22:10

this. There was in the reference to

22:13

lake pivoting to social channels are like

22:15

sorry I know this is this will

22:17

sound very. Disorganized to listeners, but we

22:19

are just quite literally trying to

22:21

drill down to the layers of.

22:24

Weird hr an executive speak to understand

22:26

like what the. Fuck they're talking about

22:28

what's this? Could possibly. Mean, I think

22:30

it might be helpful to maybe

22:32

go through the timeline of what

22:34

happened over the past. Do you

22:36

think twenty four hours would be

22:38

accurate? Or should we do some

22:40

See Interesting. Rast I think maybe even

22:43

the past year. Yeah. So when

22:45

I would suggest as we do I for. One

22:47

two three five structure where we started the middle of

22:49

the action and then we go back. says that the

22:51

you know to to. The beginning so that the

22:53

audience has invested by the time we get

22:56

to. you know three, the history. Sex and

22:58

were usually drags little bit. Oh yeah, outlets this

23:00

sick I have to sort money read. Anybody

23:02

wants to hit me up? I'll teach you how to write a

23:04

feature about losing her to have. To

23:08

understand voice you must understand the media's

23:10

gonna do. The. Invention of the I'm you

23:13

know like the printed bar can link.

23:15

You know, the written word and the Gutenberg

23:17

Bible anyway. sorry gusts. Yeah, I mean a

23:19

year ago when what happened a year ago?

23:21

Who wants to start with thought? Tim's

23:25

the angriest atom. Ah,

23:28

either know that on the other, know

23:30

that on the thinks I'm very i'm

23:33

virtual percent on your the most impassioned

23:35

Us professor know. about a year ago

23:37

the company went bankrupt Or do we

23:39

want to start their. Yeah.

23:41

I think we should. Lawyer for as well

23:43

known since I since twenty seven

23:46

team. Almost every year. And.

23:48

In some years, every quarter we've been

23:50

faced with lay offs on. The.

23:53

Scale of these layoffs: woods change sometimes

23:55

would be like you know, six seven

23:57

members of the team sometimes would be

23:59

closer. Twenty but there was never

24:01

a year where we receive for lay

24:03

offs. I was usually once or twice.

24:05

Ah I got used to like one

24:07

really big one happening in the summer

24:09

and and one kind of smaller one

24:11

happening at the end of the air

24:13

was kind of how I looked at

24:15

it. I'm in all this kind a

24:17

lead opt in to ah the company

24:19

declaring bankruptcy. They the. Than

24:22

I can me bows. Tosses:

24:24

Lateral to same here. Yeah

24:27

they they. They. Did

24:29

that. And before that they had just stopped.

24:32

Paying. Vendors We would have

24:34

various newsroom schools shut off and

24:36

nobody would tell us anything It's

24:39

and. In as a bankruptcy

24:41

didn't come out of nowhere, but I think

24:43

when things is baffling about it. To

24:46

me was that I joined as part

24:48

of a. Big reorganization and

24:51

then every time there was

24:53

a round of layoffs, there

24:55

would be. A.

24:57

Completely inscrutable new.

25:01

Strategy and departments shuffling

25:03

ends up. minds of

25:05

business been consolidated. It's.

25:08

All. Of which were, it was really hard.

25:10

It's ah, what was going on because the

25:12

actual. Late. Now

25:15

they would use didn't really have

25:17

any relation what was going on.

25:19

so like the digital team was

25:22

completely separate from. The. Team

25:24

that created digital but since we're on

25:26

the internet like it was not the

25:28

same thing not reporting to the same

25:30

people. And. There

25:32

is no. Real

25:34

on. There.

25:36

Was no real talk their which

25:39

is just to say that in.

25:42

It was really increasingly hard

25:44

leading up to of. And.

25:47

You know, filing for bankruptcy protection? To.

25:49

Even soul who was in charge

25:52

of what what different parts of

25:54

the company did Because there were

25:56

so many layers of bureaucratic I've

25:59

read shuffling. That had gone on

26:01

built on top of each other. That.

26:03

It was just completely impenetrable.

26:05

He couldn't tell. Any.

26:08

Like pretty much anything that was happening outside

26:10

of your own. Area

26:13

of the company was your visibility and six

26:15

and then talking to people As other parts

26:17

of the company they express the same They

26:19

were like. Oh so you

26:21

worked in in, you know this

26:23

part of the company Lights? Who's.

26:26

You. Know with fists, who's in charge

26:28

of that and and they just had

26:31

no real idea. So.

26:33

Yeah. That. Doesn't really answer.

26:36

The bankruptcy is something I don't personally

26:38

on. talk about, just in in any

26:40

detail just because. Ah, Colonel. born in

26:42

one year it's of what I mean.

26:45

basically have a nice. In.

26:47

Out there were there wasn't enough money coming in

26:49

and there's a lot of money being spent on

26:51

something on pretty. Similar. Pretty

26:53

ridiculous things and we yeah we

26:55

kept having changes in leadership. ah

26:58

all the time and I don't

27:00

really mean this in see Sweet

27:02

because you know frankly they can

27:04

go fuck themselves bought like we

27:06

are like Matthew Champion. We had

27:08

Michael Lamaze Are we are last?

27:10

yeah I see Josh Viscera I

27:13

could. Good friend of mine an

27:15

actor on motherboard I you guys

27:17

had everybody depart for for for

27:19

so the last year has just

27:21

been like an incredible. It

27:25

almost feels like a bit of a fever dream

27:27

to work. We were just santa towards the light's.

27:30

Green Down and Barrett and try to

27:32

produce the best work we could in

27:34

the circumstances our I feel a lot

27:36

of us did to this very good

27:38

works. I mean this week I put

27:40

out a fucking sixty three one hundred

27:43

words story on a sec stores and

27:45

ring that like involve me dealing with

27:47

was. Sealed. Your and being

27:49

self harmed and then they fucking lamy

27:51

off in the same week which I'm

27:53

sorry stoked on. Ah but like I

27:55

feel under the circumstances, a lot of

27:57

us put a very very good were.

28:00

I'm. But. The last year

28:02

hasn't been fun. yeah means timid.

28:04

I spent the last year writing

28:06

about Operation Underground Railroad and it's

28:09

founders him, Ballard and you know,

28:11

unraveling these layers and layers of.

28:13

Things that were not true in how

28:15

Ballard and Are You are represented their

28:17

work and buried bag fee and we

28:19

did this ah you know like know

28:21

to be a modest but with no

28:24

resources we didn't have Lexis, Nexis, Like

28:26

we didn't have most like access

28:28

any kind of like subscriptions. The

28:30

software that we used to use

28:32

to like transcribe. Interviews,

28:35

Didn't. Work anymore. You

28:37

know, like we just did this with. Nothing

28:40

but ourselves. I didn't bring peace

28:42

and order my own pocket. For.

28:45

My last investigation. Yeah.

28:47

I pay for peace or and they

28:49

pay for on tape a call. This

28:51

is a fun. Part of on tape

28:53

a call you can out on and

28:55

transcription like subscription to taper call. It

28:57

was a good which. Is fine. I mean,

29:00

I don't think any of them. Are good. So I

29:02

used to transcribe tips for a living when

29:04

I was a teenager. intimate, really twentieth and

29:06

so I'm very like. High.

29:08

Alert to. The things that machine's always get

29:10

wrong by. It is not bad as a place

29:12

to start and then you go clean it up.

29:15

So yes, are you hurting her? First everyone I

29:17

can. You tape a call to take your interviews

29:19

and you can use. Their transcription services

29:21

to not have to transcribe

29:23

everything yourself. Yeah, I think

29:25

it was also really sign when Getty's

29:28

Getty images were just randomly shut off.

29:30

which means we had to pull lead

29:32

images for stories that the and now

29:34

we're not incriminating or misleading as thin

29:36

air that was the man. I

29:39

actually just how doctors us since their

29:41

industry early this week at Can Get

29:43

Getty. To work as foreshadowing.

29:47

Yeah, I mean I think that we let you know.

29:49

As we said at the beginning, like the last

29:51

year has been so. Bizarre. People

29:53

have laughed and have not been replaced.

29:57

But I think the important things to hear

29:59

his advice. Where the you know when

30:01

they grow up? Filed for bankruptcy protection and

30:03

then was bought out of bankruptcy. Immediately

30:06

by you know. Fortress

30:08

and on there were two

30:10

others. Fortress: There is like

30:12

a. Minority.

30:14

Stake from George Soros his. Sons.

30:17

To save journalism. Or.

30:20

Whatever that is, An.

30:22

And. I at that

30:24

point was like unwise enough to be a

30:26

little bit. Optimistic.

30:29

You know, the as soon as I as

30:31

Fortress throws fund management and Monroe Capital and

30:33

I was like okay, well this is a

30:35

consortium of you know, our former lenders and

30:37

surely they have some kind of motivation to

30:40

keep it going Which was ah, silly. As

30:42

an aside, I'm.

30:45

So. Stoked that is George Soros. That's

30:47

fine. We put the knife into a

30:50

subsequent I find out there are none

30:52

of us. I

30:54

guess. I guess we weren't working for. Weren't

30:56

working for him after all you know Sir

30:58

Matthew, get this to if you're right about

31:00

conspiracy theories are constantly being told they are

31:02

being paid by George Soros and I can

31:05

be like well you know he didn't save

31:07

me Now how those weirdos, my emails or

31:09

him for a shock. Beer.

31:11

Look of the thing with the milk to I kept

31:13

joking I was like damn other people calling a soil.

31:15

Boys were right we are funded by

31:18

the milk soon. Like the the mixing.

31:20

so grim because there's so much stuff

31:22

that. Wasn't getting paid for

31:24

like Pacer and Getty. In

31:26

yoga had money towards milk. Although.

31:29

Many to it's know either maybe we were

31:31

secretly. A project of the dairy industry

31:33

and it had gone on long enough.

31:35

they decided to just shut us down.

31:37

Korea is pivoting to milk siblings. Who

31:40

knows. Ah, I'm. In:

31:42

I'm not, I'm not even gonna go this.

31:44

assesses. About

31:47

as. A single to the

31:49

recent signs for me that we were in deep

31:51

trouble was it was last week that we gots.

31:54

Ah of email touting the

31:56

new Cms, but it's for

31:58

socials your agent. Week about

32:00

that a little bit if you want

32:02

to go on a little and censor

32:05

over what happens to even the social

32:07

people that are theoretically on a now.

32:09

I feel like in a lot of

32:11

places there is this on many sacks.

32:13

Heard. Us versus them. the

32:15

to in it at media companies

32:17

between the people that essential journalism

32:19

in the and craters that to

32:21

Britain journalism and it always ends

32:24

up to the being a very

32:26

silly conversation because it's one of

32:28

the same. Here. Now. We.

32:31

The social teams rely on the

32:33

it into a good work of

32:35

writers and editors. To me in

32:37

of do the reporting to find these

32:39

stories most of the time. And

32:42

then the writers and editors rely on

32:44

the social journalists to get their content

32:46

out in front. Of readers and you

32:49

know different audiences and in different

32:51

ways transformative way. His. Arm

32:53

and but there's this sought that

32:55

you know, Tic toc being so

32:57

big and before that we had

32:59

Instagram Facebook. I've been working on

33:01

a number of seats book live

33:03

shows in Twenty seven T And

33:06

when I was first in turning

33:08

at Gawker Media gets that time

33:10

I think it had finally become

33:12

Gizmodo Media. I sit in a

33:14

circle back to deliver. Saying earlier,

33:16

I think I was shuffled under

33:18

three or four different department hands

33:20

in my first two years. Advice:

33:23

Because they continued to not know where

33:25

to put social is it belonged in

33:27

it's and department or belongs. On

33:30

the editorial votes, I believe that

33:32

Bones. But at the same

33:34

time it. See. It would

33:36

not get his. The

33:38

resources. Towards him since earn.

33:40

A lesson in the way that they

33:42

might give towards things that are much

33:44

easily much more easily turned into brand

33:46

Feals. Because. You're not going

33:48

to want a sponsored tic toc her

33:51

Instagram real when it's talking about. Adam

33:53

now. Conspiracies were

33:55

something involving i'll Be

33:58

Korean War and. Involving

34:00

cause that they. They.

34:02

Definitely will want to sponsor. Hey here's me

34:05

getting my hair done or nice do

34:07

what. I go down the street and talk

34:09

to this person about what they're doing to

34:11

save money. On car insurance. Not

34:14

saying that some of the culture says this.

34:16

Is good because it is. but. It's

34:18

always has been interesting and that's the

34:21

way that and place says. Wanted to

34:23

invest. In social Only

34:25

when it is very

34:28

easily mistaken for sponsored

34:30

content and. Not when it

34:32

is meant as a vehicle for.

34:35

Forgetting the reporting out there. That

34:38

yeah. Also, not reckoning with the. Fact that as

34:40

your as you're pointing out like it

34:42

is very difficult to funnel sometimes reporting

34:44

through social media because social media. Companies

34:46

flag any discussion of certain

34:49

topics even if it is

34:51

like. A journalistic discuss and even

34:53

if it has news. I think we

34:55

got flagged so many times for

34:57

various stories the really would discuss

35:00

that conspiracy theories are false because

35:02

we were discussing conspiracy theories. We

35:05

had so many things that would get flagged.

35:08

And. we couldn't do anything about it. It

35:10

with a would help you know millions of

35:12

views and then get taken down because. We

35:15

didn't, you know, to the

35:17

odds escape the word drugs

35:19

And D R Asterisk. Plates.

35:22

And see us or sags.

35:25

I used to joke with people that my

35:27

bosses are whatever taller is that we're not

35:29

my boss is. it was the people that

35:31

were in charge of turning the advertising money

35:34

and the algorithm on and off opposition media

35:36

companies. And. It's

35:39

it's It's always interesting to see.

35:41

A lot. as you know, the park at

35:44

this place to eat but we're and maternal

35:46

instincts media writ large as an Us versus

35:48

them. And to defy it. Was

35:51

it something that I've been noticing a lot

35:53

in the past year? Was

35:55

a water or water want a you tube

35:57

ems. I read a

35:59

lot. The About Conflicts.

36:03

Ah, I'm ends are you. I'm

36:05

increasingly finding that the people that are

36:07

really good about reporting on wars

36:09

and conflict and do that kind

36:11

of journalism outside of the major

36:13

players have a really hard time

36:15

existing on in social media spaces.

36:18

For those exact reasons because he

36:20

they're talking about things and sharing

36:23

images and video of things that

36:25

are not advertiser friendly. And

36:27

so they get turned off. Basically legacy

36:29

that's happened to Jack Abraham and Popular

36:31

Front. Overtime. All.

36:34

The time he's he's in very weird

36:36

places, the know what else is going

36:38

reporting on things that other people are

36:40

not talking about. Kit

36:42

kit really be on Instagram or Facebook

36:44

per tick tock cause did the social

36:47

can get turned off for the exact

36:49

reason you're talking about in really fascinating

36:51

to watch. As part

36:53

of his digital media story. Ah,

36:57

Kind. Of coming back around

36:59

to. Sanitized.

37:02

Broadcast News. Basically.

37:04

It's. It's it's and

37:07

one of the fascinating paradoxes here for

37:09

me. Is that so

37:11

for instance I edited ah Max story

37:13

that he did on sucks source and

37:15

calls which is absolutely worth a new

37:18

as an reading it putting up it's

37:20

really. It's really

37:22

terrible. And. I'm

37:24

It's something people to know more about

37:26

because it's on that sounds like a

37:28

on. It's a little more sounds like

37:31

a wild. Panic staying out

37:33

of it. same email that

37:35

kids are blackmailing other kids

37:37

and third self harm or

37:39

you know other horrible things.

37:42

But it's true and. You

37:44

know it's it's demonstrated fact law enforcement agencies

37:47

are very concerned about it. They're trying to

37:49

find out more et cetera et cetera. So

37:51

in the normal course of things of we

37:53

were just trying to. Present.

37:55

Our journalism in as wide ranging way

37:58

as possible and reach people where they

38:00

are. It would have made sense as

38:02

part of the rollout of that to

38:04

have done Legs ah you know like

38:07

video of tech soccer series videos for

38:09

tic toc. Weighing this out, there

38:11

are some people are going to read six

38:14

thousand word sorry but we stole, You know,

38:16

present a journalism different format idea. I think

38:18

that's great that you're nuts. But.

38:20

We didn't even consider it because the

38:22

you could he wouldn't even consider. Putting.

38:25

Something The deal with these topics

38:28

on tic toc because which is

38:30

dead, Do we just get flagged

38:32

and you tenure accounts at the

38:34

same time that's happening? The internet

38:37

is absolutely being overrun with child

38:39

sexual abuse materials with non consensual

38:41

in some cases stayed in some

38:44

cases not. Material involving celebrities like

38:46

this is all over Twitter. Which.

38:49

Is. Ah, I'm along

38:51

with Telegram and Discord, one of

38:53

the primary on. Places

38:56

for the stuff to get

38:58

distributed as markets and source

39:01

into and story, so his

39:03

concerts the arbitrary algorithms have

39:06

made. Very. Difficult to.

39:09

Distribute. Critical journalism on

39:11

these topics or making it

39:13

very easy to distribute like

39:15

steak, porn videos of Taylor

39:18

Swift's or child sexual abuse

39:20

material is. It's.

39:23

You. Know I don't know what the solution There

39:25

is nothing. Anybody knows what the solution is the

39:27

have to think it involves. Some.

39:30

Kind of regulations because.

39:33

Ah, Yeah,

39:35

you're You're really getting them. You

39:37

really get the boat. Worth the

39:39

worst of both worlds. I'm and.

39:42

You. Know, I don't know. effective regulation.

39:44

What's like a that a lot of

39:47

people and thought about and there's not

39:49

really a super. Neat

39:51

solution, but yeah, left to his

39:53

left to his own devices, This.

39:56

Is this is where Brat. I

40:00

have no elegant segue. From.

40:03

That. I'll. Bring it back.

40:05

Render this to target us back into kind

40:08

of the vice story. Emily.

40:10

What was the cute spleen to me? This

40:13

email that regard was the last week or

40:15

the week before kind of announcing. On.

40:18

A pivot to social. It's essentially.

40:20

Yeah, sorry, I know that I had

40:22

started talking about that a little bit

40:24

and then he got sidetracked thinking of

40:27

all the things that made me angry:

40:29

refreshing hair and a very truncated less

40:31

likely go on. But yeah, so we

40:33

got it. Wasn't specifically an email about

40:35

tipping to social say something that. Had

40:38

done This is many executives to

40:41

go and had.the thing called story

40:43

studio which on it's face really

40:45

good Basically it is a it's

40:47

ah template the some that allows

40:50

a it graphic design new like

40:52

myself to be able to basically

40:54

sick any article u r l

40:56

into the software and then it

40:59

generates using device in hostile for

41:01

images for font etc. a bunch

41:03

of different options for what you

41:05

could put on Instagram were otherwise.

41:08

It was really great for people who are

41:10

social editors are doing so. Saw that don't

41:12

have the strongest background and. Graphic Design

41:15

which again myself and many others that

41:17

I know. So with

41:19

that was really great. By.

41:23

Recently there is a new email about

41:25

this as Three Studios software that's basically

41:27

made it seem like thoughtless. The thing

41:29

that they were going to be investing

41:32

all of their time in money and

41:34

Tim. Ferriss.

41:37

Any of the other work. Insulin

41:40

advice. It basically made.

41:42

It seem Ah met.

41:45

It. It made it seem that they were

41:47

just going to go all end. On.

41:50

Social. And.

41:53

Since. Like differences from everything else.

41:55

More than they already had been in. This

41:57

is at a time when our content management

41:59

system. Beauty is horrendous. What has

42:01

there? Never has there ever been a

42:03

time for doctor And it's gotten worse

42:06

though because it's It's like degrading and

42:08

there's bugs that are not getting fixed.

42:11

right? Leg the the big one that

42:13

we were dealing with. ah we're doing

42:15

scraping. Is. That if you're listed

42:17

as an editor on a an article

42:20

is put that on your landing page.

42:22

didn't used to be that way. Yeah.

42:25

right? And so like

42:27

in addition to scraping everybody's written articles

42:29

of the salsa scraping of thing that

42:31

ever edited. In there's

42:33

kind of not. There's not a great. Easy.

42:36

Some like easy technical solution for that

42:38

problem. When you're scraping and. Now.

42:41

I'm not going to come in. And. I going to get

42:43

into code. sit on this of the soup. talk

42:45

about that later. A barrier. You know what it

42:48

means, our typing, what it means, For things

42:50

to be to exist on the internet in

42:52

kind of see now. This

42:54

fleeting way. I

42:56

want to go out of. Sorts tanden

42:58

her just because the Cms. It

43:01

this is a very bison. Seamless.

43:03

Annoyed. Clunky and. Bad

43:06

and on wouldn't accept.

43:10

High. Resolution images so that

43:12

to ah. But. A header

43:14

image on a story your the screen, capture it

43:16

a full time and then upload your screen top

43:18

and sort of the actual. I. Resolution.

43:21

Image. But. As I

43:23

pointed out about five thousand times know

43:25

that a new church it presented severe

43:27

legal liabilities because for a long time.

43:30

It. Wouldn't necessarily except changes or

43:32

a bit garbled tax if change

43:34

went up after a story. Was.

43:37

Published. On which most

43:39

of the time that's going to be

43:41

for either you know minor typos caught

43:43

us or publication. It's. Fine. Whatever.

43:46

Or. It can be for a correction. And.

43:49

So I remember fix these memos that were like.

43:52

You. Ride Sold. We'll about it in their. They.

43:55

Just hadn't understood this and remember

43:57

reading these memos that were like

43:59

using. Very short words and

44:01

explaining why? If we

44:03

can't control. What? Actually

44:06

appears on the website in

44:08

the story that exposes us

44:11

to legalize for instance, If.

44:14

I publish something about someone.

44:17

And it turns out not to be true. I

44:20

need to correct that. If

44:23

I stand corrected. They.

44:25

Have a much stronger. Taste

44:27

for Defamation. On. Be

44:29

desired, You know. Vice. Has

44:32

been made aware that something is wrong

44:34

and has not wrongfully. Movie

44:37

Incorrect information. So.

44:39

It's just as masses has this

44:41

matter trying to explain to people

44:43

you know this is ah like

44:45

morally and ethically a problem but

44:47

it's also financially a problem because

44:49

of the Cms barf sub. ah

44:51

you know Emily Lips sign is

44:53

a murderer and skis that was

44:56

images of her murder rates. and

44:58

see. I. Told us know

45:00

that's not true and we can't do

45:02

anything about it. that's really bad and.

45:05

Eventually it a little bit more stable but

45:07

it was always kind of remarkable to me

45:09

that nobody a talk to about it really.

45:12

Seem. Too concerned with fact

45:14

that like inadequate coding could

45:17

be. Ah, setting the

45:19

company up to get to get sued

45:21

are really you know know falsehoods of

45:23

the journalists are legal Carbon? Yeah. This

45:25

is something we raised many times as

45:28

like. Said. Changes

45:30

have to stack like I can.

45:33

Redo and frantically receive stuff over and

45:35

over and over. Even if it's just

45:37

a six a typo, it doesn't look

45:39

ahead to have a typo in O

45:41

N headline that up for five minutes

45:43

after publishing i don't else and. See.

45:46

Some it's like we took our jobs really seriously.

45:48

Any we shouldn't has. The

45:52

I tried way too hard. I.

45:54

Really should is has been doing

45:56

wage sacked for like seven years

45:58

since. I mean ironically, I. The have

46:00

time to look for new job because I was so.

46:03

Busy. Working as a citizen.

46:05

Of the I mean it doesn't sound like it's gonna happen

46:07

now and I know we've been like. Frantically.

46:10

Archiving things and in sounds like they

46:12

might be keeping the. Com

46:14

website up. but I guess if you're

46:16

listening and you weren't kind of following

46:18

long. One of the things that was

46:20

a big worry was that they were

46:23

going to pull the entire website down

46:25

and to canada have like. A

46:28

good chunk of your life Like that's

46:30

your. That's where your work is. like.

46:32

I've written over twelve hundred stories are.

46:35

Any. Of them gotten only a few.

46:37

Like most modern British cities, but like.

46:41

To have that his wife dos is.

46:45

Such. A fucking terrible. Right?

46:48

And like. Stealing. I

46:50

know that like we have a pdf sense to

46:53

I don't know if we want to get into

46:55

of attempts to some wonderful people who helped us

46:57

out on by it. Just.

46:59

Like. To. Lose That. I.

47:02

Don't know. I don't know if I

47:04

have an elephant point. Other than just

47:06

like that sought slight, I really didn't

47:08

love that feeling. I don't think media

47:10

companies. I'm generally take very

47:13

seriously their obligations of stewardship, but I

47:15

do think they have an obligation search

47:17

said, even if it's just to say

47:19

we can't fulfill this obligation so we

47:21

want to handle material over to the

47:23

library. Nothing I didn't early can get

47:26

pretty insufferable that the importance of their

47:28

work and you know, Muslims, mores of

47:30

Britain curved and it'll be pretty ephemeral.

47:33

But. Not all of them have

47:35

been and their stuff that this

47:37

company has published in has been

47:39

responsible for. Like was been changed,

47:41

people being put in jail, people

47:43

being held accountable for serious wrongdoing

47:45

and. Is you know as part of the.

47:48

Other is part of the historical record. It's

47:50

something that should be there in case people

47:52

need to consult it because you know it's

47:55

not the case that. People. Are

47:57

going to be going back and reading. Ah,

47:59

Old. The stories about. You.

48:01

Know neo Nazis from five years

48:04

ago all the time. They probably

48:06

they probably are by if somebody

48:08

really need that information they probably

48:10

need for a pretty good reason

48:12

and so it's something that's This

48:14

is something I do think has

48:17

been. A pretty. Young

48:20

has pretty easy solution that requires people

48:22

doing the right things when the archives

48:24

of these sites are. I'm.

48:28

Tomato Ties and they're

48:30

treated as. An.

48:33

Engine to assure like a

48:35

fairly good. google.

48:37

Ranking the eating, then manipulate to

48:40

bring in revenue through putting up

48:42

a i've written the product reviews

48:44

assistance things like that. I'm.

48:48

It's. Should be possible for

48:50

someone somewhere in. Ah,

48:53

The chain of ownership. To.

48:55

Realize that. These.

48:58

Stories and videos and other things

49:00

that they they own. Cause

49:03

I'm in a they do have

49:05

some. Minor. Circle

49:07

significance and they should be. Preserved.

49:10

In some format that will allow people to

49:12

to find them and again the way to

49:14

do that us to work with. On

49:17

professional archivists Libraries. There.

49:19

Are many such institutions that america.

49:22

Not. All of them are you know

49:24

would be jumping up and down at

49:26

the idea of. On. Preserving.

49:30

And maintaining a big unwieldy archive. Lakes

49:32

advice archive of the Gawker archive pay

49:34

out should be possible to find to

49:36

find somebody wants to do that and

49:39

so the fact that the idea instantly

49:41

goes to well, you know it's having

49:43

the concept for the company sources get

49:45

rid of the suing, do something else.

49:48

The website. As opposed

49:50

to well you know we don't want us

49:52

so let's give somebody on our to do

49:54

with is like crazy. Me: it's it's it's

49:56

crazy and there's no real explanation for it

49:59

other than that. Do.

50:01

You know to keep on people in charge of these

50:03

companies are just. You.

50:05

Know the early chair. literally. Think about

50:08

these things on. The.

50:10

Witches In a kind of a funny thing you

50:12

know they're all sorts things on a pair of

50:14

out and get in the business of first he

50:16

continued responsible for them. I think the

50:19

phrasing that. At least. As

50:21

I've heard people years before is that we're We're

50:23

losing. Recipes. And

50:25

that feels very Opt for

50:27

two reasons because you know

50:29

recently. I was interested in making Japanese

50:31

Korean. I remember that there. Was a

50:33

to talk you blog that was

50:36

someone selling how to make literally

50:38

the recipe for Japanese curry. The

50:40

only issue is that all of

50:42

the photos were taken off. Because.

50:46

There was some worry that I

50:48

don't remember exactly what the deal

50:50

was the basically it's all of

50:52

the sodas and images on articles

50:54

across the uniform or gawker network

50:57

where wait before from the for

50:59

a certain year I think because

51:01

it's issues as you know, legal.

51:04

Obtaining of these photos are. Having nice and

51:06

saying it's and er et cetera beautiful images

51:09

into they just decided instead of going. Through

51:11

a figure which are these images that we

51:13

don't have license. For it, they just

51:15

decided to wipe everything on, even

51:17

images that were taken by. Take

51:20

a bite word or made by people

51:23

on staff on. Services:

51:25

Avenue Curry Recipe. That doesn't work

51:27

anymore because know no clue what's going on.

51:29

And then Tim I was looking for your

51:31

dishwasher Chicken City. And video I article

51:33

today and I'm like a dozen. Hit

51:36

the same without these grotesque images

51:38

of someone trying to make chicken

51:40

in their dishwasher. I keep both

51:42

my photos or to probably towards the

51:44

thank you. I appreciate that but you

51:46

were literally losing recipes. The foot of

51:48

thing happened device to write something similar

51:50

at Four Twenty sixteen when we switch

51:52

Cms Not to get back to the

51:54

same as when we switch Cms in

51:56

the new ones tweeted all of these

51:59

images and armor. When it happened to

52:01

was probably around like I'm twenty

52:03

eight teams on my editor that

52:05

I'm josh are actually came after

52:07

me. was I look man. Are

52:10

not happy about what's gonna happen but you need

52:12

to pick like ten articles that we can keep

52:14

the photos on and then the rest. They're going

52:16

to get wiped and so I picked like my

52:18

favorite articles from one. Either I was a freelancer

52:21

or light in my first couple years with the

52:23

company or and interests. The photos went by which

52:25

you know, like I'm a so I'm a photojournalist

52:27

is also a lot of those. I talk and

52:30

it's like. Almost as a

52:32

resume. But yes, We.

52:36

Ended this whole thing to me feel very

52:39

motherboard and very side or and and apatow

52:41

thing to talk about interviewed by because it

52:43

goes to a basic wasn't technology and if

52:45

it's because of the way. Certain.

52:48

Tech firms and Second Angeles.

52:51

Have used the word ever years

52:53

on. You know the

52:55

the word technology brings to mind for

52:57

me like. Raxit, Servers

53:00

Robots Code. On.

53:03

People's. Strapping things to their faces

53:06

so they seem. Look. At

53:08

treaty porn on brain implants, whatever

53:10

you suffer. Picked world of a

53:12

teacher. Science fiction stuff, but technology

53:14

is just all terrain. The. Physical

53:17

World. In a

53:19

way that you find useful. And.

53:23

One. Thing we're seeing right now

53:25

is that like the book is

53:27

the button to a lesser extent

53:29

the magazine and newspaper. really uncomfortable

53:31

technologies bit of their fixed. They're.

53:34

They're pretty prominent. On.

53:38

You know you can still read scrolls from

53:40

thousands of years ago For careful with them,

53:42

They don't mean I feel said I'm on

53:44

fire and your mom's. Events.

53:46

They were us. And they're

53:48

not susceptible lose problems with people really

53:51

weren't thinking about ten fifteen, twenty years

53:53

ago as oh, you have this actually

53:55

really important story that's largely built around.

53:58

Videos. And social media. Embed. Elite.

54:01

On legible if someone just decides to

54:03

wipe those. On this is

54:05

really unstable technology and it's one

54:07

thing I'm increasingly to thinking about

54:10

in recent years. Is.

54:12

Making sure that as much as you want to

54:14

packet it's. Like. Ah,

54:16

you know, major investigation or feature.

54:19

With. As much material is

54:21

possible. For. Readers: It's really important

54:23

to keep things. On. To

54:27

the tax like a print magazines Or as much as

54:29

possible because you have to think about us. You

54:31

know what is gonna look like and five

54:33

years is all the photos get strep because

54:36

of some clearance issue. On

54:38

or. Whatever.

54:43

And. That's. Really, that's

54:45

a really weird thing to think about

54:47

the for all this own Nina world

54:50

changing. Information. Technology that

54:52

have come gotten in the last few

54:54

decades. Really? At a point where is

54:56

you have something really important to. It

54:59

as on really important to write about. It's

55:02

probably best to get it is it's some

55:04

sort of physical. Text. Format That's

55:06

that's gonna make it. That's what's gonna

55:08

make at last on the illusion that.

55:12

In. A d The illusion that the the Internet

55:14

is forever was was really something, but I I

55:17

think it's really important for people not have

55:19

any illusions about that. It's not. It's

55:21

incredible how temporary it's

55:24

become and how fast

55:26

silicone to grades. Compared.

55:28

To paper. Yeah. We don't even

55:30

you know, I don't own anything. Anybody really has

55:33

any idea how much stuff is just going up

55:35

and how much stuff is just going up in

55:37

smoke. Bomb. And

55:40

it's sucks. It's a depressing thing

55:42

to think about. I don't think we

55:44

have any of our twitch. Streams. Now

55:47

I think that's all gone. For. The

55:49

podcast you may remember when this is a current

55:51

on plants. Sweetie. Ah yes, used to

55:53

be. Broadcast. Lives just

55:56

be a whole production

55:58

involving several people pushing

56:00

than and it's gone.

56:03

The I'm guessing that it's this now. The

56:07

hopefully it goes out. Oh, I've

56:09

still got it's gone out. Of hell

56:11

yeah, it's so don't out. I still am. I'm

56:14

literally. A

56:16

kid obsessively refreshing. That.

56:18

That peace and I have

56:20

a suitable check again. Citizen.

56:24

Ah still have access.

56:27

It would be extremely funny as

56:29

the last thing we did for.

56:32

Size. As making a podcast and we

56:34

ultimately to know uploads. Yeah

56:38

boundaries of fucking most apt Ended:

56:40

if disloyal say air and is

56:42

not because we are locked out

56:44

or anything of discuss our content

56:46

management system when fucking was a

56:48

cellphone it would look leave the.

56:51

The content management system for

56:53

the podcasts is divorced from.

56:56

It's. Did not run by the company

56:58

to different back and. I

57:00

saw it's absolutely. No

57:03

emotion and going to the Cms

57:05

home page for are written articles

57:07

and realizing I could not on

57:09

any more. Like their many things

57:11

about. Face coming to an end

57:13

and no longer working here. That. I do feel

57:15

a lot about that. I'm sorting through

57:17

about like good riddance to that. Cms.

57:20

Literally The worst Cms of all time.

57:22

Like looking at it and seeing like the A

57:24

P eyes and of elderly till I get i'm

57:26

like okay. You know,

57:29

silver linings now, diseases?

57:32

Or. Remotely similar thing? my

57:34

own. Your. Home and

57:37

mean when aside from concern for almost. All.

57:39

My colleagues and comrades. I'm.

57:43

In. Er sicher New Livelihoods

57:45

is actually probably. I'm.

57:49

Happiness in a weird way. Another dinner

57:51

was bad things happening. but. The.

57:54

Varied say awesome lack of control that

57:56

we're talking about. It's really telling him.

58:00

Heartening to me that. In

58:03

a situation where there would have

58:05

been every reason to you know,

58:07

not really do anything and just

58:09

kind of sit around. I'm not

58:11

doing things people don't really. excellent

58:13

work like work that really matters

58:15

up and told the very. Up.

58:18

until the very. Last.

58:20

I'm you know, up until the

58:22

very last dead ends. That.

58:25

Fills. Me with some for the future.

58:27

the idea that if you have say

58:29

people enough to pay the rent and

58:31

eaten hopefully for a little bit aside

58:34

and told them to. In

58:36

a given a very vague directives explain things

58:38

out and for hims you they will stop

58:40

interesting things and put it on the internet

58:42

and way people. On. Do

58:44

want to read in the can have some good effects

58:46

and world that some. That's

58:49

pretty cool and telling about our line of work and. Makes

58:53

me. Hopeful

58:55

that we will find ways to continue

58:58

to do it like this. This whole

59:00

illusion that people are interested. News on

59:02

it. You know that the basic desire

59:04

to find out what's happening in the

59:07

community around the world is and out

59:09

of his own. The tech platforms can

59:11

choke off because it can in some

59:13

circumstances we the people getting high rate

59:16

of phone for hims. Lakes.

59:18

All that passing and only to just wave my

59:20

hands and say it will be figured out. But.

59:23

Now it will be figured out. It's a very deep

59:25

seated. Human. Need tans?

59:28

Own. People. Will

59:30

be. People. Will be doing it one

59:32

where the other. And they do

59:34

it. Even when the people who are

59:37

taking it's good seems to be very

59:39

hostile to them doing it. I'm as,

59:41

as I think. In. A The

59:43

Keyboard and his company a proven. Answer

59:45

thing about vice is. For.

59:48

All it's faults. And Holy

59:50

shit on our lot! It

59:53

was an incredible. Venue

59:55

for talent like it. It. Was

59:58

able to identify talent very well. So.

1:00:00

Many people that I've worked with here are.

1:00:03

Fucking. Incredible on like some

1:00:05

of the most talented, impressive

1:00:08

people. Arm. And

1:00:10

I was never. Not

1:00:12

just taken aback by the work that

1:00:14

they were able to do across a

1:00:16

wide breast of subjects are a lot

1:00:18

of my favorite writers came through these

1:00:21

doors are more of my favorite journalists.

1:00:24

Ah, I'm like Anna. You're like

1:00:26

one of my favorite journalists working

1:00:28

tonight. Likewise, Betty nice by. And

1:00:31

like all. Decisis.

1:00:35

Been. Have fought in cities, Seven.

1:00:37

And a half or how many years I've been here. For.

1:00:40

Night I wouldn't. I do it

1:00:42

again I guess. You.

1:00:45

Guys a good. Yeah.

1:00:48

I. Did. You know what?

1:00:50

I do it again. So do it again. There's.

1:00:53

Definitely been able to do it. Suddenly been able

1:00:55

to have an also frankly just realizing that even

1:00:57

as they strip away resources, we can still do

1:00:59

it. You know they mean like none of us

1:01:01

had anything to. Do with that the company was able

1:01:04

to provide to as sort of you know. The.

1:01:06

Audience advice had built up like everything else with

1:01:08

you know, we did our solves like there was

1:01:10

this. Group of people working with each other and

1:01:12

looking out for each other. And you know and

1:01:15

that's beautiful. Maybe we should start. Some sort

1:01:17

of commune? Paul. Situation:

1:01:19

Sit. Sit. Sit. And

1:01:23

it has no community. Oh man,

1:01:25

Emily, Emily has a Lot. Of

1:01:27

interest in our in our call a

1:01:29

commune. Radical A

1:01:32

Christian Elements I'm tapenade or

1:01:34

oscillator about Corner Stone Magazine

1:01:37

which was published for years

1:01:39

by and the. Jesus. People

1:01:41

Usa who are like an intentional community and

1:01:43

six ago but they did publish a lot

1:01:46

of investigation. that's the thing. They start out

1:01:48

making this weird the in about Jesus and

1:01:50

they ended up doing like an Expos A

1:01:53

over a guy who claim to be an

1:01:55

ex warlock who was on circulating on the

1:01:57

christian circles. seen I'm just saying. I

1:02:00

know that God aired make were in a key

1:02:02

as year. And. You know that it has

1:02:04

of ah jesus. People Usa. Were

1:02:07

for making the Xena about jesus

1:02:09

to being like this guy's bullshit.

1:02:12

yes I'm personally. I

1:02:18

think that that's a nice home

1:02:20

food. Place. To

1:02:22

end on. It's.

1:02:24

In when a d has something else, it's been.

1:02:28

An honor to perform of you. Spin:

1:02:32

Absolutely incredible. Wouldn't very lucky and

1:02:34

privileged to be here. In

1:02:37

the same room with all with you,

1:02:39

even digitally. Yeah.

1:02:42

Likewise, I've

1:02:45

known same way or another rate we've

1:02:47

really. Did

1:02:50

some good stuff. That

1:02:53

didn't we. we be addressing percent of

1:02:55

the singer though. steps will be incredible

1:02:57

signs. And. What You Said: So much

1:02:59

of it happened. In the less,

1:03:01

even in the last few weeks. There.

1:03:04

Was incredible journalism coming out of ice.

1:03:07

We. Would have done years more of it

1:03:09

is you don't see sweet have pulled

1:03:11

their head out in her ass. Like

1:03:14

I want to listeners to know light how

1:03:16

much termini we're losing our mind trying to

1:03:19

get this investigation. Oh in the last week,

1:03:21

like fuckin' ripping our hair out. But.

1:03:25

We got it done. He. Got it done.

1:03:27

And it was tough. I knew is tough on

1:03:29

you guys emotionally and you did I. You did

1:03:31

it in the midst of like obvious signs of

1:03:34

doom and immense pressure and used to be incredibly

1:03:36

proud. Them. Think we all

1:03:38

should. Know. We.

1:03:40

Didn't. We. Did. Tweeted.

1:03:43

Can. And will do.

1:03:45

We will do more in the future

1:03:47

near none of us unfortunately. For for

1:03:49

the haters, nobody's going away away. As

1:03:51

I insisted a different reforms if I were, I'm

1:03:54

going to the woods for a little while. That's

1:03:56

your answer. This call is a case in next

1:03:58

week. I

1:04:01

think I'm going to Vermont know I'm

1:04:03

literally. It's yes, it's I'm I'm very

1:04:05

curious on. If I'm going to get laid

1:04:07

off and a gas station on Monday with

1:04:09

it will cease. Job

1:04:12

excited to see what the phone calls

1:04:14

like wouldn't normally tomes scary gray as

1:04:16

gonna be so sensitive. They're going into

1:04:18

a really good job and oh yeah

1:04:20

I would emerge as you tube or

1:04:22

apologies with it that way off. I

1:04:25

went into here from a lady that I've

1:04:28

never heard from before. Ah,

1:04:30

you know, with an inscrutable Jobs

1:04:32

had all telling me that. There

1:04:34

has been a redundancy. And.

1:04:37

You know, regrettably, I'm going to be

1:04:39

beheaded immediately. Her own. You know I

1:04:41

can weigh. H

1:04:43

don't listen to those but actually put my notice and

1:04:45

reason we're not. be certain a new job next week.

1:04:47

I'm really kind of point from there are. Mean.

1:04:50

We're off during summers when there was

1:04:52

no difference. I don't think that would

1:04:54

happen here for sure. Guys, I'm

1:04:56

in Canada and it's a whole different legal

1:04:59

process to lay off going through a whole

1:05:01

different union that I believe at this point

1:05:03

is just me and another person is. or

1:05:05

and time you amazon minutes or nine hundred

1:05:07

of them Right now that I think there's

1:05:09

a non zero chance, I just end up

1:05:11

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