18:00

Thanks so much. I can't talk about most of

18:02

the Bible and all of that stuff. It's much

18:04

too big of a topic for, not only for

18:06

Q and A, but also for me, I'm not

18:08

as familiar with all of the debates on this

18:10

issue as I need to be to be able

18:12

to answer all these questions. But Nathaniel, I'll go

18:15

to the passage with you and perhaps I'll have

18:17

a response. I may not. I

18:20

may disappoint everybody. We'll see. Okay,

18:23

Isaiah 66, 24. It

18:25

says, and they shall go out and look on the

18:27

dead bodies of the men who have rebelled against me,

18:30

for their worms shall not die, their

18:32

fire shall not be quenched, and they shall be

18:34

in abhorrence to all flesh. So

18:37

this is the last verse of the

18:39

book of Isaiah and it's clearly, you're seeing

18:41

Jesus, let me try to unpack

18:43

why people think this is relevant to the debate, even if

18:45

I can't answer it all for you today. The

18:51

annihilationist or conditionalist viewpoint is that when

18:53

people die, they, perhaps

18:56

there's a hell experience that maybe they're even

18:58

resurrected. I think the typical

19:00

view is they're resurrected with bodies but

19:02

then they're cast into the everlasting fire,

19:04

so to speak, their body is destroyed

19:07

and they're gone. Their soul's gone, their body's

19:09

gone, their spirit's gone. They cease to exist.

19:12

This is not necessarily an

19:14

easy way out but

19:17

it definitely feels quite different. It's

19:19

a very different thing than eternal

19:22

conscious torment which is the traditional view. Now

19:25

I hold the traditional view although I don't

19:27

hold it as like Dante's inferno description of

19:29

hell. I don't think that's not my theological

19:31

view but I do think that

19:33

the implication of scripture is that it does

19:35

last forever and that there is some kind

19:37

of consciousness but that it's different

19:40

for each person, it's perfectly measured judgment and

19:43

when we try to describe it with like

19:45

cartoony images that we do a disservice to

19:47

it. Doesn't

19:49

necessarily have to be physical pain at all times or something

19:51

like that. So

19:56

there is this other view, this either

19:58

annihilationist as in you're a complete.

20:00

completely annihilated when you finally

20:02

pass. And when, not

20:04

when you finally pass, but when final judgment

20:07

comes, resurrection, inter-revelation, all that. Or

20:10

they like to be called conditionalist because what they're saying

20:12

is that you have, nobody

20:15

has immortality naturally. Humans, if they die

20:17

on a natural level, they just stop

20:19

existing. That's just what happens. And

20:23

whether that's initial death or second death, but

20:25

the point is you stop existing naturally. And

20:27

it was only conditionally that you could

20:29

be immortal. And so they'll say Adam and Eve had

20:31

to eat of the tree to be immortal. And then

20:34

that would apply not only to their body, but also

20:36

to their soul or their spirit. That's

20:38

how I understand it. This stuff gets heavily

20:40

nuanced because the debates are really hot and

20:42

detailed. And I'm not all that

20:45

familiar with all of them. So I'd love

20:47

to do a project on this one day. No,

20:49

it's probably years and years out. It's been

20:51

massively delayed in my mind. So probably years

20:53

and years out, but I'd love to do

20:55

a little project on conditionalism.

20:58

You can be a Christian and be in either camp. You

21:01

could be a non-Christian and be in either camp because of

21:03

other theological issues, but you could be a

21:05

genuine believer in either camp. Though generally

21:07

the annihilationist conditionalist position has

21:09

been treated as pretty suspect.

21:13

And for understandable reason, there's been those

21:15

who, like

21:17

I said, the Jehovah's Witnesses have that view. And it's

21:19

one of the things that they promote. And then they

21:21

also promote so many other. Yeah,

21:24

so the evangelism side of things.

21:26

The conditionalist will view their perspective

21:31

that people will cease to exist at some point in

21:33

the future as a type of evangelism,

21:35

that this is gonna help them move forward

21:39

in witnessing to people. A lot of people in

21:41

the world will say, hey, the

21:44

nature of hell, the

21:46

idea that God will punish people forever

21:49

and ever is so abhorrent to me

21:51

that I actually reject belief

21:53

in God and reject Christianity. And that may or

21:55

may not be true because if you were to

21:57

convince them that hell was something different, they may.

22:00

still just reject God and this is just an excuse.

22:02

You know, people are complicated like that. But

22:04

the conditionalist side might say, hey, this will help

22:06

evangelism for people that have moral challenges to hell.

22:09

And others would say, and I would push back

22:11

on that and say, I don't change my theology

22:13

for the sake of evangelism. So that's something I

22:15

wouldn't even consider when I'm trying to understand the

22:17

text of scripture. I wouldn't put, if you try

22:19

to sell me on that view because you think

22:21

it'll be good for evangelism, I'm not listening. You

22:24

need to show me with scripture truth, then

22:26

I'll think of how to evangelize with truth.

22:29

I'll never compromise truth to evangelist. So

22:31

that side of things I'm not so interested in.

22:35

But there are issues in scripture where

22:39

you just ask, is it destruction or is

22:41

it, like

22:43

you're completely destroyed upon final judgment, death

22:46

is just the end or

22:48

is it the end of the physical body and

22:51

there's the ongoing existence of the

22:53

spirit for all eternity, even after

22:55

that happens. So,

22:58

flash to this passage, Isaiah

23:00

66. Jesus

23:02

quotes this, their worm shall not die, their fire shall

23:04

not be quenched and they shall be in abhorrence to

23:06

all flesh. But it says it

23:08

in reference to dead bodies. They're

23:11

just dead bodies. You

23:16

might say then that this phrase

23:18

refers to those who just physically

23:21

die. That the worm not

23:23

dying, the fire not being quenched, that

23:26

is simply, you're gone. That

23:28

even though, so the worm doesn't continue to

23:30

consume forever, the fire doesn't continue to burn

23:33

forever, it's just that the

23:35

person dies and is destroyed before the worm,

23:37

the fire continues to burn until there's nothing

23:39

left. That's where the fire's not quenched. And

23:43

so they're just dead. I

23:46

don't think that this helps us get very far with

23:48

the debate because in my mind, as

23:51

I'm just kind of working this through with you, you

23:55

could say that Jesus appealing to this

23:57

is talking about

24:00

the physical destruction of the bodies of

24:02

persons in hell, but that doesn't

24:04

mean that their spirit

24:07

or soul does not continue to have

24:09

some sort of ongoing punishing existence in

24:11

all eternity. It would just

24:13

mean that the physical is destroyed. This

24:16

however could be

24:18

that Jesus is quoting this, but then applying it

24:20

to something different, applying it to second

24:23

resurrection, final judgment, whereas Isaiah could be

24:25

in reference to something else. I would

24:27

need to study these passages more carefully,

24:30

more freshly than I have to answer in more

24:32

detail than that. I did not answer

24:35

your question in full. I

24:37

apologize for that. It's just because I don't have

24:39

the ability, so I can only do what I

24:41

can. Yeah. I would

24:43

encourage those who are interested in this debate. You're

24:45

welcome to go into it. A lot of people,

24:47

they jump on annihilationism nowadays as like the shiny

24:49

new thing. And my

24:53

encouragement would be like when I did my Women in

24:55

Ministry study, I really, really underscore

24:57

the importance of checking footnotes, looking at the

24:59

arguments people are making, not trying to quickly

25:02

come to your conclusions on these things and

25:05

being very patient with it. That's what I would encourage

25:07

here too. If you really want to tackle this

25:09

and come to firm conclusions on

25:11

it where you're going to maybe change your view, at

25:14

least do it slowly and patiently. I

25:16

don't think the annihilationist view

25:18

is correct for a number of reasons.

25:21

And I don't think this

25:23

particular verse gives a strong

25:25

indication one way or the other about

25:28

it, in my view. Anyway,

25:31

I know that's probably not good enough and I acknowledge that,

25:33

so I'll just move on. Anonymous question

25:36

comes in here. I know I'm supposed to

25:38

believe cuss words are bad to use as

25:40

a Christian, but can you help

25:42

me really understand why? Most of them don't feel

25:44

wrong to say I, in

25:46

casual settings, especially if I'm by myself,

25:49

home alone and I trip on something. So you're

25:51

like, oh, I

25:53

say bloop, by the way, obviously. I say

25:55

bloop. No, I don't. That

25:58

would be strange. Okay,

26:02

cuss words. I do have some videos on this. I

26:05

will link a video below where I do like more

26:08

of a thorough analysis on cussing. I'll link it down

26:10

below at the end of the stream. It won't

26:12

be there yet, but when the stream's over, I'll

26:14

put it there. And we also have timestamps at the end of the stream.

26:16

It takes us time to go through the video, check

26:18

everything. If I have to edit like a mute mistake like

26:20

I made, it takes a few more hours, but

26:23

we will get timestamps up as well. Cussing

26:26

as a Christian. The

26:30

idea of cussing, the way

26:32

we do cussing in modern times, there wasn't

26:34

much of that in ancient, in

26:37

the text of scripture. You just don't see that

26:39

kind of cussing where we use like sailor language

26:41

where you literally just have a word that's meant

26:43

to be, here's a foul word I'm gonna use

26:45

just to emphasize a point I'm making.

26:48

There are words used like dung,

26:50

but only to actually reference dung.

26:53

Does that make sense? There are words that are used, but they're

26:56

only used to actually mean the

26:58

thing they mean. They're not just vague expressions that are

27:00

meant to, that are like bad

27:02

words. That stuff, I don't see that

27:04

in the text of scripture. I

27:07

do however, see

27:09

statements about being

27:11

watchful over the words we say, making

27:13

sure that our words are accurate and true, and

27:16

also that we should put off all, and

27:18

this is just a blanket statement, all filthy

27:20

language. Okay, so let's look at

27:23

that. And

27:27

hopefully I can help answer your question about

27:30

not only whether we can do this, but

27:32

about like why, why. So

27:35

Colossians 3.18, says

27:41

here, but now you

27:43

must put them all away, anger, wrath,

27:45

malice, slander, and obscene talk from your

27:47

mouth. Now, slander

27:49

is one of those two. Slander is probably

27:52

the curse language that we forget is literal,

27:55

it's slander. It's almost like you're cursing somebody.

27:58

And then we have obscene talk, which is. This is

28:00

meant to be this very generic, broad

28:02

statement. It's just talk that

28:04

is just inappropriate because you are a

28:06

Christian, you are a vessel of Christ.

28:09

You are filled with the Holy Spirit.

28:11

You are precious to God. You

28:15

are his people and you're his mouthpieces in this world.

28:17

So you should not say those things. And this is part

28:22

of the reason why. The justification's even given

28:24

here. Also don't lie, but it's

28:26

because you've put off the old self with his

28:29

practices and you've put on the new self, which

28:31

is being renewed in knowledge after the image of

28:33

its creator. You are then

28:35

called to be holy as Christ is

28:37

holy, perfect as God is

28:39

perfect. Can you

28:41

use strong words? Can you say strong

28:43

things and even harsh things? Yeah,

28:45

but when it's appropriate, not as an expression

28:47

of your uncontrolled anger or

28:50

as an expression of

28:53

your debased mentality about life. I think

28:55

in general, as long as there is

28:57

such a thing as, here's words that

28:59

are bad words, that are curse words,

29:02

that Christians should not use those things. If

29:04

that changes over time and language moves over time, so

29:07

you move to a point where a word no longer

29:10

really carries any of those connotations and maybe it once

29:12

did, I wouldn't see a problem with

29:14

a Christian using that. But it's complicated because he might be

29:16

like, well, when I use it amongst this

29:18

group, they don't care. And when I use it amongst

29:20

this group, they do care. In which case you should be

29:22

all things correct. So you should be all things correct. You

29:24

should not care. In which case you should be all things

29:26

to all people and not violate others. For

29:30

the sake of loving them, you should not push

29:32

on them, those types of things. I

29:35

know that this is not actually a popular view,

29:37

especially amongst men. The

29:40

men, we

29:43

like cussing. We enjoy it.

29:46

It makes us feel powerful. It makes us

29:48

feel adult. It makes us feel strong. And

29:50

all of those things I think are just

29:52

like the most petty ways to feel powerful,

29:54

adult, and strong. They're just petty. It's

29:57

like saying that, think

32:00

what you think at that age. And

32:02

those things were not quite accurate. I

32:04

think that the self-control of

32:06

not using that language is a great

32:09

disciplinary practice for real manliness, for real

32:11

self-control in all things that you say.

32:13

If I can control myself to never

32:15

say a bad word, to

32:17

never lash out and rage

32:19

against people wrongly, I am so far

32:22

along in controlling all of my character,

32:24

my discipline, my habits, everything I do.

32:27

So I think those things are good. You just have to be

32:29

aware that the

32:31

allure of foul language that

32:34

it strengthens you is

32:37

a deceptive thing because what's happening is you are losing

32:39

control of your tongue and you're becoming weaker or not

32:42

stronger. At least that's my opinion. So

32:44

I do think as long as there is a category of words that

32:47

are crude, foul language, cuss

32:49

word, that's what they are socially, then

32:52

that's a category of words as a Christian you don't

32:54

wanna use. And you might think, but

32:56

Mike, what about this one exception? What about this one

32:58

exception? I don't think, well, look,

33:01

there are often exceptions to rules, but

33:04

you need to at least establish the rule firmly in

33:06

your heart and in your habits before you start asking

33:08

about exceptions to those rules. That would be my encouragement.

33:11

Let's go to the next question. One thing in

33:13

question number four, one thing is the name of

33:16

the YouTube channel. He says, when

33:18

Jesus cast the legion of demons into

33:20

the swine, why do they proceed to

33:22

drown themselves? That's a good

33:24

question. It showed the validity of the man being

33:26

healed, but what was the actual reason

33:28

for the demons to do so? That's

33:31

a really good question. All right, I've

33:34

thought about this myself as well, and I've wondered, so

33:37

there's this demoniac. Jesus travels to like on the Sea

33:39

of Galilee to this area called, I believe it was

33:41

the Gadarenes. And there there's a

33:43

man who has a bunch of demons in him. He

33:45

casts the demons out and they go, can we just

33:47

go into the swine? Can we

33:49

have permission to just go into the swine? He says yes.

33:52

So they go into the swine and then

33:54

the herd runs downhill. They go

33:56

into the water and they drown. And

33:59

so this leads to a ton of is

36:01

lowered when people are living in rebellion to

36:03

God. And so they wanna go into

36:05

the swine because they want to bring destruction. They

36:07

wanna act out against man and God. And

36:10

so he allows them to do it because there

36:12

is no protection over that. There

36:14

is no guarding over what's going on there, something God

36:16

forbid for the land of Israel. And

36:19

so they do that. And maybe,

36:21

maybe they're also intending to cause

36:23

Jesus problems with the local townspeople.

36:26

So after the swine, a runoff, maybe

36:29

this was their plan. God knows it's gonna happen.

36:31

It's not like God's surprise. But they drive the

36:33

swine off, they drown. And

36:35

then the townspeople come out and they

36:37

see the man in his right mind, clothed, the

36:40

crazy demon possessed guy, he's fine. But

36:42

they ask Jesus to leave. Please leave our

36:45

shore, go somewhere else. The reason

36:47

they asked him to leave was probably because of the swine. That

36:49

scared them, that intimidated them. Somebody

36:51

lost financial gain

36:54

because of it. And so they

36:56

asked him to leave. Maybe

36:59

that's part of the agenda of

37:01

Satan, wanting to throw

37:03

worldly monetary concerns up

37:06

as an obstacle to the gospel for people. And of

37:09

course, God allows this because you're gonna have to choose

37:11

between him and your money at some point. There's

37:14

a final option that I'll mention and it has to

37:16

do with legs, pig legs. Okay,

37:19

so pigs, so I've

37:22

been told, right? And I have looked into this and this

37:24

is, seems to be the case. The

37:27

story was that pigs can be, it's unconfirmed, but

37:29

I think it's the case. Pigs

37:32

can generally swim, but the

37:34

archeology, they found bones of pigs on

37:36

that area, the gattereens of Galilee, that

37:39

were these very short-legged pigs. They were

37:41

just particular pigs that have very short

37:43

legs. These pigs can't swim. It

37:46

may be that the demons wanted

37:50

to escape Jesus and get

37:52

away from him, knowing he came from the water, he's

37:54

heading to the land. They're gonna go into the water

37:57

and get away from him. And they ran the pigs

37:59

into the water to escape. and ended up drowning

38:01

as a result, not knowing that the pigs wouldn't

38:03

be able to swim. I don't know

38:05

if that's the case. This is like way on the limb

38:07

with conjecture. Let's acknowledge this. I would not put

38:10

a burden on anybody that they have to believe

38:12

that interpretation. There's two different

38:15

views there. Perhaps it had to do

38:17

with them wanting to destroy things

38:19

or cause problems for Jesus. Perhaps

38:21

they were trying to flee and were ignorant of the fact that

38:24

these pigs were not gonna be able to swim. And

38:27

I don't know. What

38:29

do you think? All

38:31

right, let's take the next question. Question

38:33

five, or six, five. Yes,

38:35

five. All right. Faith

38:38

and reason says, my

38:40

friend says he doesn't want forgiveness because

38:42

he won't learn from his mistakes. If

38:44

he doesn't face consequences, how would you

38:46

respond? There's

38:51

a number of responses that immediately come to mind. Okay,

38:53

so let me try to think, if your friend was

38:55

listening to me right now, how

38:57

would I respond to them? Not just analyzing them,

38:59

but actually responding to them, which is

39:01

two different things. I can analyze a person. It's

39:04

not the same as actually responding to them. And

39:06

so if I was speaking with somebody and they

39:08

said that, I don't want forgiveness

39:11

because I won't learn from my mistakes. And

39:15

one thing I would do is I would wanna challenge

39:17

them on that. I would say, is there anybody who

39:21

you've ever wronged and

39:23

they forgave you? Like really stop

39:25

and let them think. Don't answer them, don't interrupt them.

39:27

Just let them sit and think about this. Is there

39:29

anybody who you've wronged and they forgave

39:31

you? Let

39:33

them think. And

39:36

then when they answer, maybe give me an example.

39:39

And then you wanna

39:42

ask them a question. Did you still

39:44

learn from your mistake when you

39:46

were forgiven? They're

39:49

probably gonna say yes. Then

39:51

you can ask again, is there anybody you've wronged and they did

39:53

not forgive you? Give them time.

39:57

There's a chance they'll say that's never happened.

39:59

I never wronged anybody where they had to

40:01

forgive me. In which case you're

40:03

exposing that there's probably a delusion. Like if you

40:05

were to ask family or friends of theirs, they'd

40:07

be like, oh yes, there's death. I forgive them

40:10

all the time. This person is just very blind

40:12

to it. So they think they don't want forgiveness

40:14

because they really think there's very little to forgive

40:16

them about. That might be the

40:18

case. But perhaps you could point

40:20

them to one event where they wrong someone and there was

40:22

no forgiveness. And then you can ask them a question. Did

40:26

you learn from that? And they might

40:28

say, yes, I did. Maybe I learned better because I was never

40:30

forgiven. You say, yes, but what happened to

40:32

your relationship with that person? Let

40:36

them answer. They'll tell you, it's

40:38

over. I lost that relationship. Because of the

40:40

lack of forgiveness, there is no longer a

40:42

relationship with that person. And I'll say, is

40:44

that what you want with God? You wanna

40:46

be like, I learned my lessons and now

40:48

I'm in hell forever apart from you. Now

40:51

I die without the knowledge of God. Now

40:53

I'm separated from all time from

40:56

my creator. Is

41:00

that what you want? Another

41:04

thing to bring to

41:06

them, and I like to use questions for people when

41:08

you're trying to help them understand something they haven't seen,

41:12

is using questions can be good. Lecturing them can

41:14

help. It just depends, God give you wisdom. But

41:18

other question would be, if

41:20

you never get forgiveness for the things you've done

41:23

in your life, when you stand before

41:25

God, what do you expect to happen? Let

41:28

them answer. Let them answer. And

41:34

when they answer, say, can I show with you in scripture,

41:37

can I tell you what happens? Upon

41:40

this moment, you might look

41:42

and say, go to Revelation and see those

41:44

who die apart from Christ. And

41:47

without forgiveness, without being covered by the blood of

41:49

Jesus, they are

41:51

cast into fire. They

41:53

are apart from the presence of God.

41:55

They're into darkness and all these analogies

41:57

for the type of judgment that they'll

41:59

get. and being away from God and

42:02

away from the presence of the Lord. These

42:04

types of things. Jesus

42:06

describes actually the people who don't get

42:08

forgiveness in life. And he doesn't describe

42:10

them as like mature

42:13

and healthy and people

42:15

who grow and learn and become

42:17

those who discover truth because of

42:19

consequences. He describes them

42:21

as people who have weeping and gnashing of

42:24

teeth. What do

42:29

you think about that? Let them answer. Because you're

42:31

not trying to tell them what you think you're

42:33

trying to get them to think. So

42:36

I'd encourage you to let them answer. So let me read

42:38

this again. You said, my friend says he doesn't want forgiveness

42:40

because you won't learn from his mistakes. If

42:42

he doesn't face consequences, how would you respond? And the

42:46

thing I would respond as well is God is

42:48

committed to growing us as Christians. Hebrews talks about

42:50

this. Hebrews 11 talks about this. And

42:55

it talks about how God chastens us.

42:58

And the final point here I would say is in

43:01

Hebrews 11 we're going to learn that even

43:03

though... I'm sorry, it's not 11. Is it 10? Oh

43:07

man, I get all these

43:09

mixed up. Anyways,

43:11

the... Oh no.

43:13

Okay. So the idea

43:16

is that God, even though he forgives

43:18

us, he still chastens us. That's the

43:20

word chastening. So a parent

43:22

does this with their child. A parent will

43:24

discipline their children, but they still forgive them.

43:26

But like, I'm going to discipline you. You

43:28

did something wrong. I'm going to discipline you

43:31

to teach you a lesson. But discipline can

43:33

teach you, not unforgiveness.

43:35

Unforgiveness just ruins relationships.

43:38

It doesn't teach. It just ruins relationships. So

43:40

you could do that. And you

43:43

could say, yeah, God is going

43:45

to discipline us. You

43:47

could read about it here in Hebrews 12,

43:49

where it says, it

43:51

is for discipline that you have to endure. God

43:54

is treating you as sons. For

43:56

what son is there whom the father does not discipline?

44:00

without discipline, in which all have participated, then

44:02

you are illegitimate children and not sons. We

44:05

should rejoice when God disciplines us. So

44:07

as Christians, we're not left without education, without

44:09

discipleship, without teaching, without growing when we mess

44:12

up in sin. And

44:14

maybe a great follow-up question for your friend will be this, to ask

44:16

him. Let's assume he has

44:18

kids, if not when you have kids. Say, when you have

44:20

kids, will you maintain a policy?

44:23

This is a great question. That when

44:25

they sin or when they do something wrong

44:27

to you, you will not forgive them. You

44:30

refuse forgiveness to give to them. I will never forgive

44:32

you, son, because I want you to learn the lesson,

44:34

so you will never be forgiven. Is that how it

44:37

works for you? And

44:39

then you'll see, it would be terribly cruel

44:41

if he did this to others. Something

44:43

else is going on. And

44:45

that's where I would wanna really zero

44:47

in on him and say, hey buddy, you

44:50

want to not get

44:53

forgiveness for some reason

44:55

other than wanting to be a strong

44:57

person who takes care of their own stuff,

45:00

because this plan doesn't work in

45:02

reality. You need forgiveness from

45:04

God. Maybe it's just pride.

45:07

Maybe it's just pride. I don't wanna submit to God. I

45:09

don't wanna yield to God. I don't wanna rely on God.

45:12

And that ultimately is something that you need

45:15

forgiveness for. So, man, I hope it helps.

45:18

Okay, let's go to the next question, number six.

45:22

This comes from Spencer

45:26

Goddard who says, hey Mike, thank

45:28

you for your thoughtful ministry. Thank you, Spencer. Does

45:32

Matthew 24, 14

45:34

teach that the rapture will not happen

45:36

until all people groups hear the gospel

45:38

or could Christ return before this happens?

45:40

That's a good question. Let's

45:44

read the passage and we'll tell you guys, for those who don't know, I'll

45:46

make sure that you understand why this is a

45:48

significant thing. Those who've

45:51

spent a lot of years in a community of

45:53

people who believe in the

45:56

eschatology that says the in times events

45:58

that says like, hey, in the future. Jesus

46:00

will pull the church out of the world,

46:03

boom, all the Christians are gone, and then

46:05

like a great time of judgment comes for

46:07

seven years and then Jesus returns with his

46:09

saints to rule the world for

46:12

a thousand years and then final judgment. That's

46:15

the basic view, but that view that has

46:17

what we call a pre-tribulational rapture view, or

46:19

basically Jesus is gonna pull everybody out right

46:21

before that seven years of hard times, that

46:24

view, sometimes people in that

46:26

camp say that this verse gives

46:29

us a timeline of when that

46:31

rapture will happen. All

46:33

right, so the gospel of

46:35

the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world

46:38

as a testimony to all nations and then the

46:40

end will come. This

46:44

could be seen as a timeline. The

46:46

gospel goes into all the world and

46:50

here's where you add a timeline to it. The

46:52

moment the last piece of the

46:54

world gets the gospel, then the

46:56

end comes. And so some

46:58

would view evangelism as causing in

47:01

times events to take place because

47:03

once maybe I get out

47:05

to that one remote village that's still left

47:08

and boom, the gospel's

47:10

gone everywhere, now the end comes. Is

47:13

that what Jesus was trying to say? I

47:16

don't think so. I think

47:18

rather he was saying there's

47:21

actually a delay before the end

47:23

comes and our task is to preach the

47:25

gospel through the whole world as

47:27

testimony to all nations. That's what

47:30

our job is to do while we're

47:32

waiting on whatever comes next, rapture, second

47:34

coming, whatever it is that God has

47:36

on his timeline next. That

47:38

while we're waiting on this, our goal and

47:41

our agenda is to preach the gospel to all the world.

47:45

There's also a

47:48

bit of a challenge to this, which is in the book of Acts, Paul

47:51

writes and says that the gospel has been preached

47:53

in the whole world. And you're

47:55

like, but there's no way. It wasn't preached in the whole world in

47:57

the book of Acts. Well, that's because we

47:59

use. the phrase whole world to mean every

48:02

place on the planet. And they

48:04

use the phrase whole world in a flexible number

48:06

of ways. They could use it to talk about

48:08

like the expansive whole world, but they would

48:11

often say whole world, whole earth, to

48:13

literally mean everything within a reasonable distance

48:15

of where I live. They

48:19

could just mean that, and they did frequently. They

48:21

did frequently. That happens a lot. There's a lot

48:23

of examples. If you look at just the word

48:25

earth in scripture, it is often used of a

48:27

local environment, a local area.

48:31

Inns of the earth, we would think of ins of the

48:33

earth as being the furthest possible place on the planet. Or

48:35

if you're flat earther, you'd be thinking of as the edge,

48:38

the ice wall or something. That's

48:41

not the case. In scripture, ins of the earth

48:43

is used in Jerusalem. They say ins of the

48:45

earth, and they're talking about like Babylon,

48:47

which isn't even that far away from a, you

48:51

know, all of humanity, like look at all the

48:53

territory of the world and all the continents. That's

48:55

not that far away from Jerusalem to Babylon. So

48:59

they would use the term in a way that we often don't.

49:01

And we shouldn't know that when we're reading the text of scripture.

49:04

So when Jesus says the gospel we

49:06

proclaimed throughout the whole world, they

49:10

weren't generally thinking of that as, okay,

49:12

when Madagascar gets it, and when Hawaii

49:15

gets it, and when all the Indonesian

49:17

islands get it, and when all the

49:19

countries of Africa get it, and

49:21

you know, the 1040 window, they're

49:23

not probably thinking about that. They're just

49:26

thinking, our task is to

49:28

share the gospel everywhere. That's how Matthew ends

49:30

as well. Matthew, this is 24, Matthew ends

49:32

with 28, where he goes, preach the gospel,

49:35

and go into the whole world and preach the gospel. Go

49:37

preach to everybody. I

49:40

don't think it's a timeline. I

49:42

have a study on this, where I

49:44

talk about views of end times, and I talk about

49:46

Matthew 24, and Luke and Mark, and

49:50

the three parallel passages where Jesus talks about

49:52

the same stuff. And I

49:54

think the key, sorry, I'll put it on your screen

49:56

again, is if there's one thing to look for, it's

49:59

not how far it's going. the gospel God and it's not

50:01

those things. It's when you see the

50:03

abomination of desolation spoken by Daniel. So I

50:05

have a video on what is the abomination of

50:08

desolation. It's my understanding of that. You're welcome to

50:10

consider it. I'll put it in the link below

50:12

as soon as the stream is over. You guys

50:14

can check it out. There's a

50:16

sign. It's the only sign to look for.

50:18

There's all the stuff that is said before.

50:20

These are not signs. All

50:23

this stuff's gonna happen. Wars, rumors of wars. This is,

50:25

I have a controversial view here but I think it's

50:27

accurate. Okay. It's just controversial amongst most

50:29

of the churches that I've, I find myself

50:31

agreeing with most of the time. But,

50:34

but yeah, he gives a list of things that are not, you

50:37

know, let me, here I'll just read it. See

50:39

that no one leads you astray. That's

50:41

the first warning that he gives to them when

50:43

they're asking, hey, when is everything gonna happen? When

50:47

is, when it will, tell us when will these things be and

50:49

what will be the sign of your coming in the end of

50:51

the age? What's

50:53

that? He goes, well, first thing, don't be misled.

50:56

People looking for signs, don't be misled. For many

50:58

will come in my name saying, I'm the Christ

51:00

in the league mini astray. And you will hear

51:02

of wars and rumors of wars. See

51:05

that you're not alarmed for this must take place

51:07

but the end is not yet. Wars

51:09

and rumors of wars are not signs in

51:12

the general. Generally wars and rumors of wars are

51:14

not signs of the end. Right?

51:16

See that you're not alarmed. This

51:18

must take place but the end is not yet. That's

51:20

where I take a controversial view which I think is

51:22

the accurate view but you know,

51:25

ultimately God knows. For

51:28

nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom

51:30

and there will be famines and earthquakes in various

51:32

places. This is gonna happen guys and it's not

51:35

the end. These are but the beginning

51:37

of birth pains. Somebody

51:39

says, see it's their signs at the end. They're

51:41

at the beginning of birth pains but he means

51:43

that they're gonna be taking place throughout time. They're

51:45

just the beginning. It's like, no, not yet. This

51:48

is like don't even go to the hospital yet.

51:50

You're not, you're not, birth pains aren't far enough

51:52

along yet. It's just things

51:54

that are gonna happen throughout time that

51:56

you shouldn't think, it's here

51:58

every five seconds. in human

52:01

history because there's always something. The

52:03

black plague, the Mongol invasion, there's

52:05

always something going on. There's the

52:07

Holocaust or there's the rise of,

52:11

of a neurolink, there's always something

52:13

going on. Don't

52:15

overreact, that's the, that's actually a main theme

52:17

in Jesus' end time stuff is don't overreact.

52:20

Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death

52:22

and you'll be hated by all nations for my

52:25

name's sake and then many will fall away

52:27

and betray one another and hate one another

52:29

and many false prophets will arise and lead

52:31

many astray and because of lawlessness, because

52:35

lawlessness will be increased, the love of many

52:37

will grow cold, but the one who what?

52:39

Endures to the end will be

52:41

saved, that's your goal. End

52:44

times people are often, I

52:47

believe that Jesus is coming, I believe end times are gonna

52:49

happen, but people who focus on it and try to set

52:51

dates and try to see it always happening within their lifetime,

52:56

they tend to not

52:58

think about enduring to the end, they think

53:00

about preparing for

53:02

some short term boom

53:05

it's gonna happen within some short term,

53:07

that doesn't help us prepare for enduring

53:09

to the end, the

53:12

end, it's long term endurance that Christ is setting

53:14

us up for when it comes to end times

53:17

and the gospel will be preached and proclaim the whole world

53:19

as a testimony and then the end

53:21

will come and he finally gives a sign. So when

53:23

you see the abomination of desolation, I will link a

53:25

video down below that talks about what the abomination is

53:30

and Christians

53:32

disagree on that, but I do have a view and

53:34

I share my reasons for it. All

53:36

right, the question

53:39

number seven, anonymous question, actually

53:42

I think that's the name of your YouTube channel is anonymous,

53:44

so it's not an anonymous question, what

53:46

did it take or excuse me, what does it

53:48

take for someone to be considered married in the

53:50

eyes of God? A ceremony, a presiding

53:53

religious leader, religious words

53:55

spoken, having a legal certificate or intimate

53:57

acts, this is a great question. and

54:00

the Bible's not totally clear on this, so we

54:03

have to kind of suss it out a little

54:05

bit. Let me start at

54:07

the bottom end of your question here. The

54:09

last thing you said was intimate acts. You

54:11

said, so like, if two adults are intimate,

54:14

if they, quote, know each other in that

54:16

biblical sense, are they now officially

54:18

married? Well, that certainly seems to

54:20

be the case with, it

54:23

seems to be the case that that action is

54:26

assumed to be the immediate thing that

54:29

happens upon marriage. So

54:31

they get married and they, and we even

54:33

call it consummating the marriage, that it's something

54:35

that's considered normally

54:37

integral to the process of

54:39

marriage. But

54:42

does the act actually make you married?

54:45

Does the act itself make you married? That

54:49

I don't think so, because there are some

54:51

counter examples in scripture. So for instance, a

54:53

man who commits adultery on his wife with

54:58

the woman at the well, and he says to her, go

55:01

call your husband, and he's having this

55:03

conversation with this woman, it's in John chapter four, and

55:06

he says, go call your husband, and she says, I don't

55:08

have a husband. And then Jesus like zeros in on her

55:11

life, tells her stuff she didn't know he knew about her.

55:13

He says, you're right, you don't have a husband. Remember

55:16

that, you don't have a husband. And

55:18

he said, you've had, was it five

55:20

husbands? And the man you have now

55:22

is not your husband. She

55:24

has a man now. That

55:27

implies that they're being intimate together, right?

55:29

But he's not your husband. Meaning

55:32

that the physical act was not

55:34

enough to constitute a marriage. It's

55:37

so, so in other words, physical

55:39

intimacy is part of marriage, but it does

55:41

not equal marriage. Do you catch that? It's

55:44

an important element in marriage, but it does

55:46

not cause marriage

55:48

inherently. Two 16 year

55:51

olds sleep together, they're not married now. That's

55:53

important that we understand this. It changes how we

55:55

view things and how we look at our lives.

55:58

Otherwise, a woman who. who's slept with six

56:00

men has literally been married six times and

56:03

that's not the case. No,

56:07

now, 1 Corinthians suggests that still,

56:09

the two become one flesh. So there

56:12

is no such thing as casual intimacy,

56:15

but even

56:18

if you're not getting married, you sleep with somebody,

56:20

there's a oneness that the two of you have

56:22

created. It's just not called marriage. It's not actually

56:24

marriage. So now let's look at

56:26

the other options. What makes it marriage? Is

56:29

it a ceremony? Well, certainly

56:31

ceremonies are normal with marriage, but you look at

56:33

the Garden of Eden and you have Adam and

56:35

Eve and you don't see a ceremony taking place.

56:38

Now you could say, behind the scenes, there was

56:40

a ceremony, it's just not written about. That's

56:42

possible, but I don't wanna project that onto Scripture

56:45

and then make it a rule for everybody. So

56:48

the ceremony might be a normal thing. There

56:51

seems to be a normal thing and it seems very natural

56:53

to have a ceremony to acknowledge publicly

56:55

that this wedding's taking place, but I don't

56:57

see a command in Scripture that the ceremony

56:59

has to take place. If two people elope

57:04

and they run away, but

57:07

they commit to each other, like I'm married to you, you're

57:09

married to me, we're gonna live together, we're gonna be together,

57:11

we're gonna have kids and build a family, and for some

57:13

reason they ran away, whatever the reason, good or

57:15

bad. Would I call

57:17

that a real marriage? Nobody was there. I

57:21

would acknowledge it as a real marriage. I wouldn't see

57:23

justification to not. Does

57:27

it require a presiding religious leader? Current marriage is

57:29

almost all of them have that, at least in

57:31

people I'm aware of. They have a presiding religious

57:33

leader, even if it's just someone who got a

57:36

chaplain license or a marriage license for a day and

57:39

they did it, they'll still do it in a religious

57:41

way. And that's good. It's healthy

57:43

that in marriage we acknowledge God. He

57:45

is the one who, Jesus says, what God has

57:47

joined together, let not man separate. So God is

57:50

the one joining us in marriage. It's not just

57:52

us, God joins us. I

57:54

would say, based on that

57:56

in scripture, what constitutes a marriage is

57:58

God joins two people together. in

58:00

marriage. It's a supernatural event.

58:03

God joins them together. He

58:05

does it with pagans. He does it with

58:07

Christians. Marriage is something God designed, God instituted,

58:09

and God is the one who joins you,

58:11

which is why same-sex marriage can't

58:13

actually be real marriage because God is not

58:15

joining you together. You could

58:17

try to have a religious ceremony. You could

58:19

try to have physical intimacy, although you literally

58:21

cannot do the thing that a man or

58:23

woman can do that you physically can't. It's

58:26

not possible to do the exact

58:28

same thing with the same qualities and potentials for children

58:30

and stuff, but

58:34

still God is not joining you together. I

58:36

think that then what we can do

58:40

is we look at Scripture and we say, well, what are

58:42

common elements in marriage? Maybe it's not a hard and fast

58:44

rule across every marriage, but what are the common elements? You

58:47

commonly see that God is acknowledged

58:49

as one who joins together. You see that

58:51

there are two people who make a commitment

58:54

to one another that is binding and it's

58:56

binding not only between them, but also in

58:58

their greater culture. That's something that's actually pretty

59:01

consistent. Now, you don't see it

59:03

in Adam and Eve because there is no greater culture.

59:05

They're literally a community of two people, but in every

59:07

other example, you seem to see where

59:09

there's enough data to look at it, a

59:13

community accountability that

59:15

they're actually married. So

59:17

that when Moses is talking about the potential of divorce,

59:19

he talks about it like it's an issue that the

59:21

community has to weigh in on. Your

59:24

marriage isn't just a private thing. I

59:26

think marriages ideally should be

59:30

public. They should be a

59:33

serious commitment between the man and woman. They should

59:35

acknowledge God, the creator who joins man and woman

59:37

together, and whether they have

59:39

a religious leader involved or not is

59:42

optional, but it seems generally

59:44

positive. Catch

59:46

that. It seems generally positive. I

59:49

have done many weddings. I very rarely do that

59:51

stuff nowadays, but please

59:53

don't ask. Sorry. I'm sorry. I just

59:55

can't split myself eight different ways. But

1:00:00

But I, in my view of marriage, I don't look

1:00:02

at it like some pastors do, where they look at

1:00:04

a couple and they're sizing them up to see if

1:00:06

they're, if they'll qualify for them to be married. Now

1:00:10

you might pull yourself out of a marriage, out of

1:00:12

doing a wedding as a pastor, because you have some

1:00:14

objection, but I have no right to tell people who

1:00:16

isn't going to get married. I

1:00:19

can say what I think is right and wrong, but

1:00:21

I can't actually control whether they become married. Like

1:00:23

my presence doesn't make them married. It just seems like a

1:00:25

nice thing to have. So

1:00:28

two people, commitment to

1:00:30

marriage, and the

1:00:33

intimacy that follows is a important thing to do.

1:00:35

Obviously, if people can't physically, because of medical issues

1:00:37

or something like that, then I think that the

1:00:39

Lord meets them there. But

1:00:43

yeah, you

1:00:45

don't really have a straight, simple

1:00:49

formula in Scripture. You have

1:00:51

regular examples. A man and a woman, serious

1:00:58

commitment. I am committed to you.

1:01:00

And when I say serious commitment, I don't mean like

1:01:02

any generic commitment. Like I'm really committed to you, probably.

1:01:05

I mean like till death do us part. I'll be

1:01:07

your husband. You'll be my wife. I'll

1:01:09

be your wife. I will support you. All that

1:01:11

commitment in marriage. Serious intention.

1:01:14

So perhaps it's two people

1:01:16

joining with the intention of being married. Right?

1:01:20

And all that that encompasses is

1:01:23

enough to form a marriage bare

1:01:25

bones, and the other stuff is extra that

1:01:27

it seems healthy and normal. That'd

1:01:32

be my formula. What do you think? All

1:01:35

right, let's go to question number eight.

1:01:38

Three. Eight. All

1:01:41

right. R.D.M. Prote says, are

1:01:44

we judged twice? And

1:01:47

you give two verses. Luke

1:01:49

16 and Revelation chapter 20. And

1:01:52

you think this suggests two different judgments that

1:01:54

we undergo. So let's look at Luke 16

1:01:56

verse 19 through 23. judged

1:02:00

twice. There was a rich

1:02:02

man who was clothed in purple and fine

1:02:04

linen who feasted sumptuously every day and at

1:02:06

his gate was laid a poor man named

1:02:08

Lazarus covered with sores who

1:02:10

desired to be fed with what fell

1:02:12

from the rich man's table. Moreover, even

1:02:14

the dogs came and licked his sores.

1:02:16

The poor man died and was carried

1:02:18

by the angels to Abraham's side. The

1:02:21

rich man also died and was buried and

1:02:23

in Hades being in torment he

1:02:25

lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off

1:02:28

and Lazarus at his side and he called out,

1:02:30

Father Abraham have mercy on me and send Lazarus

1:02:32

to dip the end of his finger in water

1:02:34

and cool my tongue for I'm in anguish in

1:02:36

this flame. But Abraham said,

1:02:39

child remember that in your

1:02:41

lifetime you received, you

1:02:43

in your lifetime received your good things and Lazarus

1:02:45

in like manner bad things but now he's comforted

1:02:48

and you are in anguish. I

1:02:51

could keep reading but it's not necessary for

1:02:54

the sake of understanding what we've already covered.

1:02:57

The first passage is this. Jesus is like, hey

1:02:59

it seems to be actually I do need to

1:03:01

keep reading. It seems to be that this happened

1:03:03

in Jesus's story here not

1:03:06

in final judgment in the future in Revelation but

1:03:08

like right away. Like they died and right away

1:03:10

they were split into two camps. One was in

1:03:12

a place of torment and one was in

1:03:14

a place of comfort and the

1:03:16

evidence of this is he

1:03:19

says, I beg you

1:03:21

father sin Lazarus to

1:03:23

my father's house for I have five brothers

1:03:25

so that he may warn them lest they

1:03:27

also come to this place of torment. This

1:03:29

confirms that in this story Jesus is

1:03:32

talking about something that's happening right

1:03:34

at the moment. Like

1:03:36

they die and his brothers are still there because

1:03:39

if it was in the future final judgment the brothers wouldn't

1:03:41

still be in his father's house. He

1:03:43

wouldn't be like send him up. Like this is death

1:03:46

and then they're separated and all this stuff

1:03:49

is taking place long before final judgment but

1:03:52

if they weren't already judged in some sense why would they

1:03:54

why wouldn't they be in the same camp or the same

1:03:56

category or the same side of the chasm? Why

1:03:58

is one comforted and one suffering. That

1:04:02

would imply perhaps more than one judgment because

1:04:04

then you read Revelation. Revelation

1:04:06

chapter 20 and

1:04:10

you have verses 11 through 13. Then

1:04:18

I saw a great white throne and

1:04:20

him who was seated on it from his presence

1:04:22

the earth and sky fled away and no place

1:04:24

was found for them and I saw the dead

1:04:27

great and small standing before the

1:04:29

throne and books were opened

1:04:32

then another book was opened which is the book

1:04:34

of life and the dead were judged

1:04:36

by what was written in the books according

1:04:38

to what they had done. So these books are meant

1:04:40

to be records of the things they did in their

1:04:42

lives. They're judged based on that and

1:04:45

so you have two sets of books. The

1:04:47

books with all of our things we did good and bad

1:04:49

and then you have another book called just the book of

1:04:51

life. Are you written in that or are you not and

1:04:53

ultimately Jesus is how you get written in that one. In

1:04:57

the sea gave up the dead that were in it. Death

1:05:00

and Hades gave up the dead who were in them and

1:05:02

they were judged each of them according to what they

1:05:04

had done. So

1:05:08

are there two judgments

1:05:10

then? Some people

1:05:12

would would push back on this and they would

1:05:14

say well I don't think the Lazarus story is

1:05:17

anything other than a parable. I don't think it's

1:05:19

describing the way things really are. It's

1:05:21

just like one of those stories where someone's like someone died

1:05:23

and they say they said to Saint Peter at the gate.

1:05:27

Can I come in you know and nobody's trying

1:05:29

to establish like that when you die you actually

1:05:31

see Peter or something like that although

1:05:33

some people would suggest you do. I

1:05:38

don't take that camp. I

1:05:40

think that the story of Lazarus and the

1:05:42

rich man even if

1:05:44

it is a parable it could

1:05:46

be okay. It doesn't

1:05:48

start the same as the parables. It feels a little

1:05:50

different than parables. He has names for the people at

1:05:52

least for Lazarus one of them and

1:05:54

then there is a guy named Lazarus who actually dies

1:05:56

and comes back and so with

1:05:59

Jesus forming a story. story that was meant to have more

1:06:01

meaning when Lazarus died and rose. He

1:06:04

didn't really resurrect, but he was resuscitated. He was brought back

1:06:06

to life. Or

1:06:09

is it maybe just a parable? Let's

1:06:11

say if it was a parable, that'll be the hardest

1:06:14

to handle in this regard. If it was just a

1:06:16

parable, is Jesus making

1:06:18

a parable about

1:06:20

the afterlife that

1:06:24

is completely 100% unlike what you

1:06:26

experience initially

1:06:29

upon death? That I find

1:06:31

hard to believe. And that's why I tend to think that this

1:06:34

story of Lazarus and the rich man, even

1:06:36

if we're using imagery like

1:06:38

finger and water and flames and it's

1:06:40

imagery that's meant to picture something that's

1:06:42

not exactly like that, I

1:06:45

think still it requires reasonably

1:06:47

that Jesus is saying upon death,

1:06:49

you are separated into two camps,

1:06:52

those who are comforted and those who

1:06:54

are in torment or I would

1:06:57

add waiting on final judgment. And I

1:06:59

would liken it to the two different

1:07:02

types of places we

1:07:04

put prisoners. So

1:07:07

in the US we have jails and we have prison

1:07:09

and there are two different things. You

1:07:11

can have like a local jail versus like

1:07:13

the county jail or whatever you've got. Like

1:07:15

the sheriff's station has like a little jail.

1:07:17

That's all temporary storage. If your sentence is

1:07:20

like say over a year long, you're supposed

1:07:22

to go to prison. If

1:07:24

it's under a year, you usually go to jail.

1:07:26

Now overcrowding and stuff changes some things like this.

1:07:29

But there

1:07:31

is such a thing as a

1:07:34

guy who preliminarily

1:07:36

he was found with enough

1:07:38

evidence to show

1:07:40

that he is going to be stored

1:07:42

in jail or in wherever. He's

1:07:46

gonna be stored somewhere while they're still doing

1:07:48

his court case. So you have a guy

1:07:50

who's actually, he's not out on bail. He

1:07:52

is stuck in like confinement in

1:07:54

a cage so to speak. Then he's

1:07:56

brought before the judge and he's judged

1:07:58

again. And then

1:08:00

final judgment comes and his final

1:08:03

fate is decided along with

1:08:05

like how much time have you served? How does that weigh

1:08:07

on your final sentence? We do this in our

1:08:09

society is my point. I think that

1:08:11

upon initial death, my interpretation of

1:08:13

this, my view of judgment for

1:08:15

humans is we're separated into

1:08:17

two categories. One is

1:08:20

going to be for the unsafe. And

1:08:23

they're gonna be like, oh,

1:08:25

there's an awareness of future final judgment

1:08:27

coming upon them. And there's that

1:08:29

alone is tormenting, of course. Then

1:08:32

there is those who are in Christ. And

1:08:34

before Christ's death, we would have gone

1:08:36

into some sort of like comfort place,

1:08:39

like where Abraham was. After

1:08:41

Christ's resurrection, we're gonna be in Christ's presence. So

1:08:43

that if I die now, I go

1:08:45

to where Abraham is now, which is in the very presence

1:08:47

of God. Once Jesus died and rose, he sort of opened

1:08:49

the door to take all those people who were waiting and

1:08:52

bring them into the very presence of God. So that Paul

1:08:54

is able to say, I would rather die. He'd

1:08:58

rather be absent from the body and present with

1:09:01

the Lord. So

1:09:03

that makes sense to me. And that brings together a

1:09:05

few different ideas in scripture. I think I'm consciously present

1:09:07

with God the moment I die. And a

1:09:09

person is consciously away from the presence of God if they

1:09:11

don't know Christ the moment they die. That's

1:09:14

my understanding of this. Preliminary

1:09:16

judgment separates us into these two categories.

1:09:19

But in the distant future, after every human has

1:09:21

had their chance to live and die and do

1:09:24

all that, then the books will be opened and

1:09:26

final judgment will come along with final punishment. So

1:09:29

that nobody's in hell at this exact moment.

1:09:31

They're in like Hades, whatever. They're

1:09:33

in like a different location. Temporary, like jail

1:09:36

versus prison. Then in the future,

1:09:38

they're cast into hell. All

1:09:41

right, let's go to question number nine.

1:09:43

Corey Finch says, popular

1:09:46

worship song lyrics, I

1:09:48

bless you as in humans blessing God,

1:09:50

is that biblical? And

1:09:52

other ones like, you are enough, so I am

1:09:54

enough. I haven't heard that lyric, but I'll tackle

1:09:56

that too. Does Christ's righteousness imparted on us also

1:09:58

make us enough? Okay Worship

1:10:02

lyrics let's talk about some stuff with that. I'll add

1:10:04

some other things too that are just on my mind

1:10:07

Can you say I will bless you God? I

1:10:09

bless the Lord That is

1:10:11

actually a strange idea for many

1:10:14

of us, but as it is

1:10:16

entirely biblical entirely Biblical

1:10:18

to bless God Let

1:10:20

me give you some scripture on that Here

1:10:25

is Psalm

1:10:28

134 verse 1 Come

1:10:31

bless the Lord all you servants of the

1:10:33

Lord who stand by night in the house

1:10:35

of the Lord Lift up

1:10:37

your hands to the holy place and bless

1:10:40

the Lord You're

1:10:42

gonna bless God according to scripture. You can

1:10:44

bless God Psalm

1:10:46

103 verse 1 Bless

1:10:50

the Lord. Oh my soul and all that is

1:10:53

within me bless his holy name Bless

1:10:56

the Lord. Oh my soul and forget not all his

1:10:58

benefits. Then it just talks about how good

1:11:00

God is Is

1:11:02

it possible then that what it means by blessing

1:11:04

God is you're just proclaiming how good God is

1:11:06

that that blesses God? Yeah,

1:11:08

so it's not I'm blessing you

1:11:11

like I will cause positive things

1:11:13

to happen to you for by giving putting a

1:11:15

blessing upon you Blessing God can

1:11:17

just be us worshiping him. I'm just

1:11:19

blessing the Lord He is he delights

1:11:21

in the praises of his people he

1:11:23

and he enjoys he loves that it's

1:11:25

relational. It's it's harmony It's it's

1:11:27

there's a rightness to it when I tell

1:11:29

my wife. I love her Hopefully she delights

1:11:31

in that you know There's a delight that

1:11:34

is in knowing the truth of that and

1:11:36

hearing it and there is something there about

1:11:38

knowing Like when God says if God

1:11:40

just says the whispers in your ears says I love you.

1:11:43

I care for you That is

1:11:45

that blesses you does it not? Yes,

1:11:48

so I think we can bless the Lord in

1:11:50

these things We just do it from the perspective

1:11:52

of him being the all-powerful all-knowing all good creator

1:11:56

But it happens in many other psalms. So

1:11:58

psalm 104 verse one

1:12:00

says bless the Lord. Psalm 134 verse

1:12:02

2, bless the Lord. Lift up

1:12:04

your hands in the sanctuary and bless the

1:12:06

Lord, implying that the act of worship is

1:12:09

itself blessing God. There's other ones. Psalm 2612,

1:12:11

I will bless the Lord. Psalm 135,

1:12:18

19, bless the Lord. Oh, Israel. Oh, house of Israel.

1:12:20

Bless the Lord. Oh, house of Aaron. Verse

1:12:23

20 says again, there's other places. So yeah,

1:12:25

you can bless God. That's a hundred percent

1:12:27

true. So the problem is only that maybe

1:12:29

we have a sub-biblical understanding of the word

1:12:31

bless. We should look at scripture and see how

1:12:33

it's used in different ways. When

1:12:36

Abraham blessed his sons, it was not the same

1:12:38

as the way I bless God, but

1:12:40

both of those are blessing in

1:12:42

a different way. So

1:12:45

yeah, that's great. I bless you

1:12:47

Lord. Now if the song's like, I bless you

1:12:49

Lord because I add to your greatness through my

1:12:51

greatness pouring into you or some garbage like that,

1:12:53

yeah, you throw it out. But the very concept

1:12:56

of blessing God, as biblical, as long as you

1:12:58

understand it, is an act of

1:13:00

simply giving God credit, giving God praise, giving

1:13:02

God the attention and the love and the devotion

1:13:05

that he deserves is a way to bless

1:13:07

the Lord. He blesses

1:13:09

us in very different ways, but

1:13:12

there's more. So you said the phrase, the quote,

1:13:14

you are enough, so I am enough. Is that

1:13:16

okay to sing? Now I do not know the

1:13:18

worship song this is part of, so my answer

1:13:20

would change depending on the context of that song.

1:13:23

That song, if it's if it's

1:13:25

dictating that

1:13:28

you're enough so I'm enough because

1:13:30

I'm a, you know, you know what I mean. Like the songs

1:13:32

that are like, I'm amazing, I am

1:13:35

amazing, like right? Like don't call me

1:13:37

someone who has flaws and issues

1:13:40

and needs to rely on the grace of God

1:13:42

every moment of every day because I am enough,

1:13:45

then throw it out. Like that's garbage, but

1:13:49

there's a way in which you can say God is enough and

1:13:51

therefore I'm enough because I am not

1:13:53

because I'm nothing, but God is everything.

1:13:55

And you can tell my

1:13:58

coffee cup this morning or today, it's not even morning. I

1:14:00

can do all things through him who

1:14:02

strengthens me. Here, I'm gonna start to guess. Yeah. There's

1:14:05

another verse that's often taken one of two

1:14:08

ways. People think, oh, I'm gonna win this

1:14:10

football game through Christ who strengthens me or

1:14:12

I'm gonna have business success through Christ who

1:14:14

strengthens me. And actually, it's talking about going

1:14:16

through hardship or having

1:14:18

positive things happen but not letting that draw you

1:14:20

away from Christ. It's actually,

1:14:22

those are the two things that Paul's talking about. But

1:14:25

there's nothing wrong with saying I can do all things through Christ who

1:14:27

strengthens me, as long as you know what it means. Are

1:14:29

you enough? Let me think,

1:14:31

there's a scripture I wanna share with you guys

1:14:33

that relates to this, that I think parallels this

1:14:35

dilemma of, can we say that? And

1:14:45

it is, yeah. So,

1:14:49

2 Corinthians 12, a great parallel

1:14:53

for this. This

1:14:56

is the right way to say it. Okay,

1:15:00

to keep me from being conceited, Paul

1:15:02

says, because of the surpassing greatness of

1:15:04

the revelations, a thorn was given me

1:15:06

in the flesh, a messenger of Satan

1:15:08

to harass me, to keep me from

1:15:10

becoming conceited, he says it twice. He

1:15:13

was given continual, bad

1:15:16

experiences that made his life hard.

1:15:19

Literally, he looked at it and said, let's talk about

1:15:22

being thankful in all things. He says, thank you, God.

1:15:24

I'm not thanking you that I'm suffering but I'm thanking

1:15:26

that you're using it to keep me humble because

1:15:29

I would become arrogant and that would be the

1:15:31

worst thing that could happen to me. It would ruin

1:15:33

me, ruin my ministry. It would lead to all manner

1:15:36

of things. So he's grateful for that, for

1:15:38

what God does through it. Then he says, three

1:15:40

times I plead with the Lord about it, that it should leave me.

1:15:43

But he said to me, my grace is

1:15:45

sufficient for you for my power is

1:15:47

made perfect in weakness. This is the

1:15:49

sense in which God's enough so I'm

1:15:52

enough. If

1:15:54

that same person can say, I am terribly weak

1:15:56

but God is strong and his strength is made

1:15:59

perfect in my. weakness so I rejoice even in

1:16:01

my weakness because I know God is using it.

1:16:03

Yeah if it's that you can sing that. The

1:16:06

question is does the song carry some of

1:16:08

those elements in it or does it just

1:16:10

sort of in an isolated way throw out

1:16:12

this phrase in a world that

1:16:14

is full of people puffing each other up talking

1:16:16

about how great they are and how much self-confidence

1:16:18

they should have and self-assurance and self-esteem. If

1:16:21

it doesn't add some of these elements

1:16:23

that it's actually your weakness that brings out

1:16:25

God's strength then I

1:16:27

wouldn't do the song because then

1:16:29

it would become a worldly thing I think in people's minds

1:16:32

but he says therefore I will boast all the more

1:16:34

gladly of my weaknesses so that the

1:16:36

power of Christ may rest upon me for

1:16:39

the sake of Christ then

1:16:41

I'm content with weaknesses in

1:16:43

souls hardships persecutions and calamities

1:16:46

for when I am weak here's

1:16:48

the here's a great worship song like then I am

1:16:50

strong oh you

1:16:53

can see it too now for when I

1:16:56

am weak then I am strong if

1:17:00

that was in a song by itself I

1:17:02

would have pause when I'm weak

1:17:04

then I'm strong but

1:17:08

when you add other things like the description

1:17:10

he just gave us in the earlier part of the

1:17:12

chapter you go oh I know what

1:17:14

this means he doesn't mean he's strong at all he

1:17:17

means that like he has incapacities

1:17:19

and inabilities and suffering and difficult things

1:17:22

and these cause him to say Lord this will never

1:17:24

work unless you enable it this will never happen unless

1:17:26

you empower it I can't get through this day without

1:17:28

your help and then he realizes

1:17:30

he's walking in God's strength and God gets

1:17:33

all the credit that's a beautiful thing

1:17:35

but if it's about pride

1:17:39

feeling good about yourself you

1:17:41

know what like every actor when they give advice

1:17:43

to people were coming up believe in yourself you

1:17:45

gotta believe in yourself believe in yourself believe in

1:17:47

yourself and I'm just like a lot it's like

1:17:49

actors learn how to live it live a fantasy

1:17:51

in their lives somehow because it's the way the

1:17:53

whole industry is designed it's

1:17:56

weird that yeah the

1:17:59

in musicians too. Sadly, big time

1:18:01

musicians are just the most self-obsessed

1:18:03

arrogant people and you know this

1:18:05

because they tell you that that's how you should be too.

1:18:08

If it comes off that way, yeah, it's bad for a worship song.

1:18:11

There's another thing I'll add here, repetitive worship

1:18:13

songs. There's a lot of pushback from people

1:18:15

like me who care a lot about theology

1:18:17

and I want meaningful worship

1:18:19

songs and I want thoughtful worship songs.

1:18:22

There's a lot of pushback against repetitive choruses where

1:18:24

you just say the same thing over and over

1:18:27

again and I don't push back on that

1:18:29

but from people who agree with me on a lot, there is

1:18:31

a lot of pushback. So I want to mention that real quick

1:18:33

and say there's nothing wrong

1:18:35

inherently with repetitive choruses. It's

1:18:37

in the Psalms, dude, right? Bless the

1:18:40

Lord over and over again.

1:18:42

It says like His mercy endures forever.

1:18:45

Over and over again, if

1:18:47

you sang a worship song that said

1:18:49

His mercy endures forever as many times

1:18:51

as that happens in the Psalm, you

1:18:54

would probably be like, this

1:18:56

is lame. Instead,

1:18:58

I'm going to suggest that

1:19:01

the scripture is telling us here

1:19:03

and I've got it highlighted so you could see all

1:19:05

the occurrences of it. The

1:19:07

scripture is telling us that it's

1:19:09

entirely good to repeat every time it

1:19:12

says His mercy endures, it's highlighted for you. I'm

1:19:14

going to scroll down. Verse four, five,

1:19:16

six, seven, eight, nine, 10, 11, keep going, 15,

1:19:18

16, 20, 22, 26 verses, it's in every verse.

1:19:20

You cannot rip

1:19:29

on worship songs for being repetitive when

1:19:32

scripture does this. Jesus

1:19:34

is not opposed to repetition. He's opposed to

1:19:37

vain repetition. So that's the thing I just

1:19:39

encourage us to remember. Vain repetition

1:19:41

is singing it, not meaning it. Yes, if

1:19:43

you're doing it, that's a problem, but it's

1:19:45

okay to say His mercy endures and say

1:19:47

it again and again and again and

1:19:49

again and again. Does every worship song need to

1:19:52

do that? No, it doesn't need to do that,

1:19:54

but it doesn't, it's not ruled out. Repetition

1:19:57

is okay. As long as

1:19:59

it's genuine. as long as it's real. And there

1:20:01

is something to be said, and a lot of

1:20:04

people get this, but they usually don't talk about

1:20:06

it. Usually I only hear people complain about it.

1:20:08

A lot of people do get it. They get

1:20:10

that when you say over and over again some

1:20:12

truth about God, it often does reinforce it in

1:20:15

a new way. It often is more solidly in

1:20:17

your mind and heart and not less, as long

1:20:19

as you're not using empty repetition, which Jesus warned

1:20:21

against. So I just want to encourage

1:20:23

you guys in that, biblical in

1:20:25

our worship. Number

1:20:28

10, last question, Graham says,

1:20:30

Hey, Mike, thanks for your ministry.

1:20:32

You're very welcome, Graham. I am honored

1:20:34

that I get to do it, that in my weakness, which I

1:20:36

have quite a few of those, God

1:20:38

is showing his strength. It

1:20:41

has been a blessing during my walk. Good to know. Is

1:20:43

it biblical to vote for the lesser of two

1:20:46

evils? Could you point to someone or something in

1:20:48

scripture to help us understand? Can

1:20:52

you vote for the lesser of two evils? Let

1:20:55

me share with you kind of like how at least I've heard

1:20:58

people talk about this. I looked into this a bit. This

1:21:01

idea is it lesser of two evils or is it

1:21:03

the greatest good? That's

1:21:06

a different way of looking at the same problem. Almost like a, you

1:21:09

know, some people who say the glass is half empty and others say the

1:21:11

glass is half full. There's people

1:21:13

who go, am I voting for the least evil option

1:21:15

or the most good option? There's

1:21:21

just two different ways of looking at it in that regard. If I

1:21:23

was to say, I will vote for the most good option. It's almost

1:21:25

like nobody could argue with me about that. And I'll, okay, I'll

1:21:28

vote for the most good option.

1:21:30

Okay. Now, if the options are like in

1:21:32

our situation, Kamala Harris and Donald Trump, that's

1:21:35

probably Donald Trump. He's, he's not really

1:21:37

good in my opinion.

1:21:40

Okay. But, but most good, probably clearly from the issues

1:21:42

of like trans, trans, the

1:21:46

issues of like trans ideology stuff, even

1:21:48

abortion, which he is not solid on

1:21:50

abortion, but he, it would be more

1:21:53

baby saved that way. Yeah. Okay.

1:21:56

So if it's, if those are the two options and I'm going to

1:21:58

pick between those two options, it seems like. it would

1:22:00

seem clear to me as a Christian where I would have

1:22:02

to vote grudgingly. Okay, that's my opinion. I know I made

1:22:04

a lot of people mad by saying that. The

1:22:08

fact that you're mad is part of the

1:22:10

problem that's going on right

1:22:12

now amongst believers is that we can't discuss these

1:22:14

things and just go like, hey, actually I take

1:22:16

a different view and share it instead of being

1:22:18

angry and all communication shuts down.

1:22:21

At any rate, but

1:22:24

is it justifiable to do that, to vote for

1:22:27

the greater good or the least evil?

1:22:32

There are times where there's moral dilemmas in Scripture and they

1:22:35

do things that just seem very much not ideal. So

1:22:37

I could think of when

1:22:39

they give up the kids of Saul, or

1:22:42

they're not kids, they're not children, but the descendants of

1:22:44

Saul that are left to the, is it the Gibeonites?

1:22:48

And they're gonna, they'll kill them. And

1:22:50

it's because of the, this treaty violation that happened in the

1:22:52

past. It

1:22:54

seems to be this sort of situation where it's just

1:22:56

a very non-ideal scenario and you have to pick an

1:22:58

option, but you don't have a great option that's left.

1:23:01

I do think some things like that do happen in

1:23:04

Scripture where non-ideal scenarios

1:23:06

present themselves and you do

1:23:08

the best thing you can.

1:23:11

So David does this in a sense

1:23:14

when he eats of the bread that

1:23:18

is only for priests to eat. So David,

1:23:20

King David, he's fleeing Saul. A lot of

1:23:23

you know the story, but basically think of

1:23:25

Saul as like the king that got arrogant

1:23:27

and started going crazy. And he tries to

1:23:29

kill David, who God has chosen to replace

1:23:31

him. And he tries to kill him. So

1:23:33

David's running away, he's fleeing, but he has a lot of people

1:23:35

loyal to him because he's been a good dude. You know, kill

1:23:37

Goliath, all that stuff. So David's fleeing

1:23:39

and he's like, he ran in a hurry. He

1:23:41

doesn't have food. So he goes and

1:23:43

he asks this in this one town, he's like, hey

1:23:45

priest, do you have any food? And he goes like,

1:23:48

all I got is the special ceremonial bread that by

1:23:50

law, you're not allowed to eat. But

1:23:52

David is fleeing for his life. His

1:23:54

men are fleeing for their lives. Their lives hang

1:23:57

upon this. And so he gives them the bread

1:23:59

and they eat it. eat what they're not legally,

1:24:01

lawfully allowed to eat. More

1:24:04

so, Jesus talks about this as a

1:24:06

justified act, suggesting

1:24:09

that they were faced with two bad options.

1:24:12

Let David's people die or

1:24:14

violate the rule about who can eat this

1:24:16

bread. And they chose the

1:24:19

lesser of two evils or the

1:24:21

greater of two goods. Let's keep,

1:24:23

let's say life will trump this ceremonial

1:24:26

rule. And Jesus uses this to

1:24:28

apply why he would heal on the Sabbath. Life

1:24:31

will trump your ceremonial rule. Preservation of life

1:24:33

is going to trump a ceremonial rule. That

1:24:35

seems to be a principle that Jesus holds

1:24:38

because there are some situations that are exceptions

1:24:40

to rules. And

1:24:43

so one could say, oh yeah, well preservation of

1:24:45

life. Okay, so maybe the abortion issue pushes me

1:24:47

to vote more conservative. And even

1:24:49

though it's not truly solid, like

1:24:52

a, you know, cause currently for those of you who are

1:24:54

interested to know this stuff, right? I don't talk too much

1:24:56

about the politics stuff, but I don't want to pretend like

1:24:58

it doesn't exist or act like Christians aren't supposed to think

1:25:00

about it or that the Bible has

1:25:02

nothing to say to weigh in on our political views.

1:25:05

I just don't find that to be something that I

1:25:07

know, it's not something I focus

1:25:10

on, okay? There's plenty of things I don't focus on. That's one of

1:25:12

them. But I do try to think about it as

1:25:14

a Christian. I have responsibility to vote. So

1:25:17

yeah, I think that voting for the

1:25:19

least evil option is a legitimate option

1:25:21

as a Christian. Because

1:25:23

what you're doing is you're exerting an influence

1:25:25

in society to push it in a direction

1:25:28

that is better than the alternative. And maybe

1:25:31

another example would be, let's say you're on

1:25:33

a bridge and there's a train come in and

1:25:35

there's a dude stuck on the bridge, and you

1:25:38

can either tackle him, in which case you guys

1:25:40

will fall 10 feet down the bridge and you'll

1:25:42

both hit the ground, probably break something, or

1:25:44

you can leave him alone, in which case he'll get hit by

1:25:46

a train and die. And you're like,

1:25:49

oh, well, that seems obvious, right? You tackle him. It's

1:25:52

still bad. Like you're actually hurting the man, but

1:25:54

you don't see a better way to do it. Again,

1:25:57

I think that that could be justified and it seems reasonable.

1:26:00

And there seems to be some biblical precedence for

1:26:02

that sort of thing Then

1:26:06

there's another debate which is is it even evil to

1:26:09

choose the least evil option available and That's

1:26:12

where I actually would say I'm not even sure this

1:26:14

is evil That's why I would use a language greatest

1:26:16

good not or at least, you know Less

1:26:20

evil option because greatest good suggests that

1:26:22

given the available options. This is actually

1:26:24

a good move It's not just an

1:26:27

acceptable evil It is the morally right thing

1:26:29

to do and that is where

1:26:32

at least in my thinking I'm currently at I'm working through

1:26:34

this stuff I'm trying to think about it because there's other

1:26:36

factors that come in that as a Christian I say yeah

1:26:39

But maybe Christians abstaining from a vote because I don't

1:26:41

think you can as a Christian You can consistently vote

1:26:43

for the Democrat side right now or haven't been

1:26:45

able to for a long time I

1:26:47

think as thinking biblically Christian, I don't think that's an option for

1:26:49

me The question is whether

1:26:51

the other side is still an option That's

1:26:54

where the debate lies in my mind But

1:26:56

what about voting, you know, let's say we vote

1:26:59

third party and it's about we're gonna lose this

1:27:01

election you know that but it's about sending a

1:27:03

message and Cultivating a party atmosphere

1:27:05

that you want to see long term That

1:27:09

is a viable or it's a possible option. I don't know

1:27:11

if it's viable and That's

1:27:13

where my debate is Do I really think it's

1:27:15

viable for us to be like we will will just

1:27:17

like take our ball and go home as Christians

1:27:19

and that? will somehow fix the

1:27:21

things we don't like in the only party that

1:27:23

is Still got some

1:27:25

remnants of our actual worldview And

1:27:28

I'm not sure that that doesn't seem viable to me,

1:27:30

but maybe it is I'm thinking about it praying about

1:27:32

it I would I would let

1:27:34

Christians in good conscience disagree on this topic

1:27:39

But I would want to talk to them about it if they'd be open to it Because

1:27:42

there's a lot to be said about it and it does matter in

1:27:44

the end though How

1:27:47

you vote matters But

1:27:50

how you treat people as a Christian in the midst

1:27:52

of the Political turmoil wherein

1:27:54

also really matters that you

1:27:57

seek peace with all people as much as is possible

1:27:59

with you that you still care about

1:28:01

people, even if you see them as like the

1:28:03

woke mind virus people.

1:28:06

You still have to see them as people that God

1:28:08

loves, made in his image, people that are by the

1:28:10

grace of God, there go you, and

1:28:13

outreach to them as a Christian and not just

1:28:17

polarize and demonize. Because as a Christian, every side

1:28:19

is kind of, in a sense, the bad guys.

1:28:22

We're all fallen people who need

1:28:24

the grace of Christ. But

1:28:27

that doesn't mean that we're all equally

1:28:31

impacting society so that we can just vote any direction

1:28:33

or just act like Christians are just in a permanent

1:28:35

middle ground where everybody has pros and cons and who

1:28:37

knows and Christians can go any way they want. You

1:28:40

can be a Christian and vote differently.

1:28:43

I do not think you can consistently

1:28:46

vote with your Christianity and do so

1:28:50

to the most evil option, which would

1:28:52

in this case be Colin

1:28:54

Harris, this election. And I realized that

1:28:56

my ministry could lose, I could lose my 501c3 for

1:28:58

saying these things. So be it, we'll lose

1:29:01

it. I've already, I've told that

1:29:03

there's only like, you know, only have three employees,

1:29:06

but I've already told people like, that's just how it's

1:29:08

gonna be, we'll just lose it. I'm

1:29:10

not gonna ever hold back from applying scripture

1:29:12

to important issues because of worries about that

1:29:15

kind of stuff. Anyways,

1:29:17

that's about all I got to say. Let me close us in prayer.

1:29:20

Father, we pray, first we thank you for

1:29:23

your truth and your goodness that guides us in

1:29:25

all these circumstances and really does weigh in on

1:29:28

the complex, complex difficult issues of our lives. We

1:29:32

pray for wisdom now as we talk about on

1:29:34

this last question, issues of the election and who

1:29:36

we should vote for and can vote for. And

1:29:39

some of it's tough, like do we, do we take

1:29:41

our ball and go home or do we vote third

1:29:43

party or do we vote for, you know,

1:29:48

Donald Trump? It's a tough

1:29:50

thing as a Christian, it's

1:29:52

a tough thing. But

1:29:54

Lord, we ask for wisdom and

1:29:56

we pray also that you'd help Christians to walk in

1:29:58

love, that even if we have to... take a strong

1:30:00

stance, a strong stance against evils,

1:30:03

against the continued depravity and

1:30:05

degradation and deceptions and lies that are especially happening

1:30:07

in the Democratic party. We pray that you'd help

1:30:09

us take a strong stand that

1:30:11

is grounded in love, love for you,

1:30:13

love for our fellow man, and not

1:30:16

just in anger. In Jesus

1:30:18

name, amen. Amen.